RE: When will it end?......

RE: When will it end?...... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

SummerWind -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 12:53:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle My lecturer concluded that if you are going to run someone over you better make sure it's an old person. How old is Zensee? [sm=car.gif]

Zensee -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 2:24:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Why? Why is it sensible for you or the government to be able to control my personal behavior that does not directly affect you or society? Shouldn't things like this be my own decision? I presume you read the preceding posts before you repeated this worn out whine. Quite frankly if bikers don't want to protect their heads it matters nothing to me but seatbelts are a different matter. So what part of 'seatbelts keep you in the driver's seat so you have a better chance of retaining control of your vehicle in an emergent situation thus they help prevent minor incidents from becoming major collisions' did you not understand? Wearing seatbelts is not just about YOU and your rights. It's about the safety of all the people you share the road with - the public road. Not your private road that you alone paid for the one we all paid for and use at the same time etc. etc Z.

Zensee -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 2:29:55 AM)
You look good in loud pink, SummerWind. I'm sure I'm young enough to see you coming. Z.

FullCircle -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 4:13:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife WOW! I think you just made my point, somewhat disturbingly. I could have just as easily made my hypothetical about a 65 year old rather than a 5 year old. Regardless, you've reduced it to their "earning potential", their "value to society", instead of seeing the person as an individual. A judge will decide on how much a company or individual is liable for but you will still be liable regardless of who you kill or injure. It is really about mitigating the risks as I have previously said. Here we have the HSE who will regularly inspect construction sites and places of work and if they find a dangerous activity taking place that has not been mitigated they have the power to shut down that site until they comply. They even have the power of arrest and can seek prosecutions. One example is an employee that propped a fire door open with a fire extinguisher; a double whammy because not only did the person make the fire door useless but they also moved the fire extinguisher making it potentially harder to find in the event it was required. The HSE inspector didn't prosecute the employer in that case because it was beyond their control they demanded to know which individual had done it and then that person was fined somewhere around £2000 from memory. The point is that people don't make up silly rules to annoy people they look at what the cause of accidents has been in previous years and they try to reduce such occurrences by modifying the operations of an individual or organisation. Falling from height is always going to be a major priority for the HSE until it isn’t the main cause of construction related deaths in the UK. If someone falls from height and as a designer you haven’t thought about how that operation could be done another way then you are liable for prosecution under the CDM regulations. The risk has to be designed out where possible and where it's not you have to reduce it to a reasonable level. As a designer you have had more time to think about what the risks are than someone may get on site when carrying out your instructions, if you don't point out unforeseen risks on drawings you are liable for prosecution. I use the word unforeseen because to the person onsite the risk maybe unforeseen but in the design office a risk assessment has been carried out to try to identify realistic risks and how they can be reduced. I shouldn't have to tell someone how to use a hammer or to wear PPE but if an asbestos survey has been carried out and found elements containing it such as ceiling tiles then those tiles have to be removed carefully without breaking them, I have to make someone aware of those risks that I know about that effect the activities I have asked someone to do if not I can be prosecuted and jailed. In your world no one is watching out for you so you can't really blame anyone if someone asks you to do something and they haven’t pointed out the risks to you. Some people are ignorant of the facts relating to how many people die each year from not wearing a helmet and it isn't possible to separate those people out from people such as yourself. The law has to be applied to everyone the same those that accept the risks and those that are ignorant of them, it's the only way it can be policed. You can't expect a police officer to know the difference, maybe you should be made to wear an luminous badge instead of a helmet that says "I ACCEPT THE RISKS." They funny thing is if you fell off your bike became brain damaged and was paralysed down one side, not being able to work, you'd want to blame anyone but yourself for it. If you think I'm wrong in that just look at how many ridiculous compensation claims are made and how many people end up making claims for disability benefit. If you are unable to feed yourself through your own inactions maybe society should turn it's back on you and refuse to pay for a nurse maid? No obviously we can't do that and so not only have we lost a vital member of society but now we also have to support him rather than leaving him to die in his own filth. Same thing if you injure your back because you refuse to listen to someone advise you on how to lift loads the right way, why should I then pay for you to stay at home with a bad back?

sirsholly -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 4:26:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle My lecturer concluded that if you are going to run someone over you better make sure it's an old person. ok Level...just stand riiiiight there...yep...in the middle of the road..... [sm=car.gif]

kittinSol -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 4:53:11 AM)
Fast reply. People can cry like babies and complain about the evil, nasty rules [sm=tantrum.gif]: it's their problem, but I haven't heard any of the moaners pick up on the idea that nothing stops them from breaking the rules and dealing with the aftermath if there is one. If they want to be such rebels [8\|] . PS: by the way, I think the highway code should be burnt. Who's anyone to tell me that I have to drive on the right hand side of the road?

windchymes -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 5:13:42 AM)
I agree! I'm sick and tired of some stupid looking light changing colors all the time telling me how to drive!!!

kittinSol -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 5:19:36 AM)
Exactly. And why can't I light up at the cinema, huh? So what if other people end up breathing in the fumes? It's their problem: they can stop breathing, or get out, if they don't like it. Bloody fascists, so not fair.

sirsholly -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 5:28:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Who's anyone to tell me that I have to drive on the right hand side of the road? note to self: Dear Self...stay the hell out of New Hampshire

kittinSol -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 6:28:33 AM)
[sm=evil.gif]

rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 6:51:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterGangelS Ok, so what WILL have to happen before people start actually protesting? Laws are good if they seriously do contribute to others' wellbeing. If it's a personal choice, however, and affects no-one else, shouldn't you have the right to not wear a helmet? Where IS it going to end? When the Powers That Be tell us what to eat and when? How often per day we can use the toilet? In what positions we can fuck other consenting adults? The reasons states have helmet laws is because of the stupid slobs who wind up spilling there brains all over the road and don`t have the courtesy to die. They end up costing gobs of money for their care and become a drag on the system.Their care is picked up by a state`s taxpayers,ie. you and me. It`s simple math,not a desire to squash freedom. If there was a way to make laws that say, if you ride w/out a helmet and end up in the hospital with major head injures and you run out of money and/or insurance,you get wheeled to the exit and pushed outside.Bye-bye. Unless you can get your friends or ABATE to pay your medical bills,you go away and die. Under those circumstances,I`d let people ride naked at 100 MPH, drunk and high. Let freedom ring. Well, if that's the case why not require a certain level of medical insurance to ride a motorcycle? Because then you would have to do that for automobile drivers as well, which would then have people like you crying about the "big brother government". Incidentally, do you wear a helmet when you drive your car? Because, despite airbags and seatbelts, head injury is the number one cause of death in car crashes. Look up thr NHSTA statistics.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 6:54:44 AM)
Laws are important. If there were none you would have nothing to rebel against or to complain about. then life would surely be bleak.

rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 7:20:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Why? Why is it sensible for you or the government to be able to control my personal behavior that does not directly affect you or society? Shouldn't things like this be my own decision? I presume you read the preceding posts before you repeated this worn out whine. Quite frankly if bikers don't want to protect their heads it matters nothing to me but seatbelts are a different matter. So what part of 'seatbelts keep you in the driver's seat so you have a better chance of retaining control of your vehicle in an emergent situation thus they help prevent minor incidents from becoming major collisions' did you not understand? Wearing seatbelts is not just about YOU and your rights. It's about the safety of all the people you share the road with - the public road. Not your private road that you alone paid for the one we all paid for and use at the same time etc. etc Z. I think it's the part where someone tries to stretch an argument to the point it becomes ridiculous and far-fetched. We've now gone from seatbelts being a safety device to them being designed to help you control your vehicle in a crash. Please share with us whatever documentation you have to support that.

rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 7:48:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife WOW! I think you just made my point, somewhat disturbingly. I could have just as easily made my hypothetical about a 65 year old rather than a 5 year old. Regardless, you've reduced it to their "earning potential", their "value to society", instead of seeing the person as an individual. A judge will decide on how much a company or individual is liable for but you will still be liable regardless of who you kill or injure. It is really about mitigating the risks as I have previously said. Here we have the HSE who will regularly inspect construction sites and places of work and if they find a dangerous activity taking place that has not been mitigated they have the power to shut down that site until they comply. They even have the power of arrest and can seek prosecutions. One example is an employee that propped a fire door open with a fire extinguisher; a double whammy because not only did the person make the fire door useless but they also moved the fire extinguisher making it potentially harder to find in the event it was required. The HSE inspector didn't prosecute the employer in that case because it was beyond their control they demanded to know which individual had done it and then that person was fined somewhere around £2000 from memory. The point is that people don't make up silly rules to annoy people they look at what the cause of accidents has been in previous years and they try to reduce such occurrences by modifying the operations of an individual or organisation. Falling from height is always going to be a major priority for the HSE until it isn’t the main cause of construction related deaths in the UK. If someone falls from height and as a designer you haven’t thought about how that operation could be done another way then you are liable for prosecution under the CDM regulations. The risk has to be designed out where possible and where it's not you have to reduce it to a reasonable level. As a designer you have had more time to think about what the risks are than someone may get on site when carrying out your instructions, if you don't point out unforeseen risks on drawings you are liable for prosecution. I use the word unforeseen because to the person onsite the risk maybe unforeseen but in the design office a risk assessment has been carried out to try to identify realistic risks and how they can be reduced. I shouldn't have to tell someone how to use a hammer or to wear PPE but if an asbestos survey has been carried out and found elements containing it such as ceiling tiles then those tiles have to be removed carefully without breaking them, I have to make someone aware of those risks that I know about that effect the activities I have asked someone to do if not I can be prosecuted and jailed. In your world no one is watching out for you so you can't really blame anyone if someone asks you to do something and they haven’t pointed out the risks to you. Some people are ignorant of the facts relating to how many people die each year from not wearing a helmet and it isn't possible to separate those people out from people such as yourself. The law has to be applied to everyone the same those that accept the risks and those that are ignorant of them, it's the only way it can be policed. You can't expect a police officer to know the difference, maybe you should be made to wear an luminous badge instead of a helmet that says "I ACCEPT THE RISKS." They funny thing is if you fell off your bike became brain damaged and was paralysed down one side, not being able to work, you'd want to blame anyone but yourself for it. If you think I'm wrong in that just look at how many ridiculous compensation claims are made and how many people end up making claims for disability benefit. If you are unable to feed yourself through your own inactions maybe society should turn it's back on you and refuse to pay for a nurse maid? No obviously we can't do that and so not only have we lost a vital member of society but now we also have to support him rather than leaving him to die in his own filth. Same thing if you injure your back because you refuse to listen to someone advise you on how to lift loads the right way, why should I then pay for you to stay at home with a bad back? You seem to be arguing two different issues here. As I've said before, government regulation is necessary when we are talking about harm to others or others rights infringed upon. How far can you take that though? The answer is as far as you want. You can make an argument that there is a cost to society or a personal cost to you from nearly every single activity and every single person you interact with. Which returns us to the original "when will it end".

Owner59 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 7:50:43 AM)
Yeah, stop-signs ,shmop-signs.Speed limits? Limit this[sm=wiggleass.gif] I am so tired of the gub-ment forcing their rules on us. They act like they live here or something and run things. They should go back to whatever dictatorship thet came from and leave us freed`m luv`rs alone. We don`t need gub-ment auditors keeping our financial systems true and sound.The "market" will do that. Enron wasn`t a bad thing,it was just the market talking.And as conservatives often point out,the market knows best what`s good for us. If only we could get rid of that nasty-ass Food and Drug Admin. We should just let every Tom Dick and Harry "market" their drugs to us and let the population decide which drugs are affective and which drugs are harmful(or deadly). The consumer knows what`s best, after all. The "market" will shake out the losers(along with a few dead patients)and support the winners.That`s the magic of the "market" [:D] The worst offender of them all, has got to be the satanic Federal Aviation Administration. Who the fuck do those devil worshiping FAA folks think they are to impose rules and guidelines for aircraft/air ports?There should only be suggestions,not hard rules about when, how and where to land/take off. Forcing pilots to fly in recognized air traffic lanes,imposing altitude restrictions and no-fly zones is a form of nanny-state meddling. Whoever gets to the landing/takeoff lanes 1st,gets to take off or land.If there is a crash,well,the "market" thing again,remember? That control tower is filled with control freaks and mini-Napoleons anyway.Fuck them! And to think, we pay their salaries.How dumb is that?We (the tax-payer)pay the air traffic controller`s salary,yet we let them order us around. Pilots are individuals and America is all about individual freedom, so we mustn't tell them to get a license , regular physical exams or ongoing training/certification. If they can start the engine and make it go,who is the government care either way? If a guy crashes a plane and kills himself and his passengers,then the 'market' has spoken and gotten rid of the losers.See how freedom works?[8\|] If only we could move to that magical country where there`s no rules or regulations. Where individual freedom trumps everything,including what all the other individuals agreed on as to what the rules will be.(does that make sense?) Anyway,where is that magic place where no one`s shit stinks,no one`s responsible for themselves ,there`s no cost to anything and and cause and affect is a quaint concept?

rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:03:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Laws are important. If there were none you would have nothing to rebel against or to complain about. then life would surely be bleak. HELL YES! If I didn't have something to bitch about every day I might have to resort to watching Oprah and Maury. Worse yet, I might actually have to find a life! Perish the thought. [sm=hair.gif]

rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:15:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Yeah, stop-signs ,shmop-signs.Speed limits? Limit this[sm=wiggleass.gif] I am so tired of the gub-ment forcing their rules on us. They act like they live here or something and run things. They should go back to whatever dictatorship thet came from and leave us freed`m luv`rs alone. We don`t need gub-ment auditors keeping our financial systems true and sound.The "market" will do that. Enron wasn`t a bad thing,it was just the market talking.And as conservatives often point out,the market knows best what`s good for us. If only we could get rid of that nasty-ass Food and Drug Admin. We should just let every Tom Dick and Harry "market" their drugs to us and let the population decide which drugs are affective and which drugs are harmful(or deadly). The consumer knows what`s best, after all. The "market" will shake out the losers(along with a few dead patients)and support the winners.That`s the magic of the "market" [:D] The worst offender of them all, has got to be the satanic Federal Aviation Administration. Who the fuck do those devil worshiping FAA folks think they are to impose rules and guidelines for aircraft/air ports?There should only be suggestions,not hard rules about when, how and where to land/take off. Forcing pilots to fly in recognized air traffic lanes,imposing altitude restrictions and no-fly zones is a form of nanny-state meddling. Whoever gets to the landing/takeoff lanes 1st,gets to take off or land.If there is a crash,well,the "market" thing again,remember? That control tower is filled with control freaks and mini-Napoleons anyway.Fuck them! And to think, we pay their salaries.How dumb is that?We (the tax-payer)pay the air traffic controller`s salary,yet we let them order us around. Pilots are individuals and America is all about individual freedom, so we mustn't tell them to get a license , regular physical exams or ongoing training/certification. If they can start the engine and make it go,who is the government care either way? If a guy crashes a plane and kills himself and his passengers,then the 'market' has spoken and gotten rid of the losers.See how freedom works?[8\|] If only we could move to that magical country where there`s no rules or regulations. Where individual freedom trumps everything,including what all the other individuals agreed on as to what the rules will be.(does that make sense?) Anyway,where is that magic place where no one`s shit stinks,no one`s responsible for themselves ,there`s no cost to anything and and cause and affect is a quaint concept? Yet again you are taking things to extremes trying to make a point. Nobody has suggested abandoning stop signs, traffic lights, or basic rules. The issue, that you constantly skirt, is how far should these rules extend into our personal lives. If you want to talk extremes wouldn't mounting cameras in our homes solve a whole host of problems? Domestic violence, child abuse, drug use would be virtually eliminated. Aren't these worthy goals? Think of the costs to society of all these social ills. So you would undoubtedly support a campaign to enact such a law.

TheHeretic -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:54:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Anyway,where is that magic place where no one`s shit stinks,no one`s responsible for themselves ,there`s no cost to anything and and cause and affect is a quaint concept? It's called "Congress," O59. [:D] Perhaps you can tell me where the magic place is where every situation is identical, and individual judgement can simply be replaced by collective wisdom? Where a cooperative social compact for a collective activity like sharing the road can just be expanded to cover every aspect of each individual life? What a paradise, where nothing bad ever happens to anybody, because our perfect gov't has it all figured out.

Owner59 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 9:14:40 AM)
"Yet again you are taking things to extremes trying to make a point." Not extreme at all.There was a time when there were no laws for those things. You don`t think there were whiners complaining about those things too ,as laws concerning them were implemented over time? All those points are to show a historical perspective.Of course it seems silly to talk about which side of the road to drive.There was a time though,that one could drive on either side legally. Of course it seems silly to say that laws keeping banks honest aren`t necessary.But there were people at one time,who said bank auditing was a form of government interference. There was a time when cars,plans and modern medicine didn`t exist. Each regulation and law brought out it`s own set of "individuals" to whine. There will be crybabies whining,forever.Each time we collectively decide on a rule or law,there will people to complain. If those complaining have a point and can sway a change,then there will be people whining about that too. When will it end? emm, Never? Maybe it`s pride that makes us not want to be talked down too or told what to do. Maybe some people just feel better when complaining or ranting.It`s a form of freedom. There`s no end to things to complain about. If one really wants to find things to get frustrated about but don`t have any,they`ll just make something up.

Owner59 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 9:17:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Anyway,where is that magic place where no one`s shit stinks,no one`s responsible for themselves ,there`s no cost to anything and and cause and affect is a quaint concept? It's called "Congress," O59. [:D] Perhaps you can tell me where the magic place is where every situation is identical, and individual judgement can simply be replaced by collective wisdom? Where a cooperative social compact for a collective activity like sharing the road can just be expanded to cover every aspect of each individual life? What a paradise, where nothing bad ever happens to anybody, because our perfect gov't has it all figured out. Canada? [:D]

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875