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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 12:42:50 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom

Ya I can tell, softness, you might want to wipe that dirt off your head.


And you may want to wipe the scales from your eyes so you can see in colour and not black and white.
But somehow, I doubt that you would want something so pure.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 12:45:35 PM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom
Ya I can tell, softness, you might want to wipe that dirt off your head.


As you said elsewhere... there maybe a reason you are alone.... attitude maybe?


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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 12:45:55 PM   
SleepyDom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom

Ya I can tell, softness, you might want to wipe that dirt off your head.


And you may want to wipe the scales from your eyes so you can see in colour and not black and white.
But somehow, I doubt that you would want something so pure.
 
the.dark.

 
Geez, some people have no sense of humor.
 
softness, you knew I was kidding right?

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 12:56:01 PM   
ModeratorSixteen


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Let keep the discussion adult and read our mail shall we?

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 12:57:49 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom

You guys are screwed.   Mark my words; one day you'll see that I'm right.



You might see this as your sense of humor.  I see it as totally rude, on so many levels.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 1:05:30 PM   
RCdc


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It may be comedy to you and I do not speak for softness and never would.  But if you do not see how disrespectful your whole wording was to many types of people not only softness - that is flags to me.  Humour is used by a few as a defense on that which they do not understand and essentially fear. 
 
I get humour.   I also see irony and double standards and often call them if I decide to.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 1:05:58 PM   
SleepyDom


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Softness, I'm sorry if I offended you with that remark; I was truly just kidding around.  Anyway, I won't be participating on this board any more.  So those of you that I had the pleasure to talk with (you know who you are), I thank you for the conversation, and goodbye.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 1:10:07 PM   
everhope


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

so ... how about those of us who actually *do* want to be/wish to own "doormats" ...not all the time .. but some of the time


You guys are screwed.   Mark my words; one day you'll see that I'm right.



"Sir said last night ... "Yanno kiddo .. you really are quite the doormat ... not all the time mind you .. but you are.. and thats just great .. because sometimes all I want is to have something to wipe my feet on when I get home"

Ya I can tell, softness, you might want to wipe that dirt off your head.


i have a pretty good feeling that softness is exactly where she wants to be. the dirtier the better.
you may wish to retract, SleepyDom.
(in some instances humor is lost in cyber, this is one of those times)
 
may we all find our bliss

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 1:18:03 PM   
DarkVictory


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So,last night, as I was wiping my shitty boots on softness's face and informing her of what her opinions should be for the next hour, I was sure to let her know that she really likes being a doormat from time to time.  If I decide that she *doesn't* like being a doormat any time in the near future, she'll have to post about it.

Hey, I know.... maybe one of those my-space pages, where you put in your mood, except I could just insert opinions, and she'd obsessively check it for updates..... naah, that's gonna almost certainly get in the way of the ironing.


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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/28/2008 1:27:52 PM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

So,last night, as I was wiping my shitty boots on softness's face and informing her of what her opinions should be for the next hour, I was sure to let her know that she really likes being a doormat from time to time.  If I decide that she *doesn't* like being a doormat any time in the near future, she'll have to post about it.

Hey, I know.... maybe one of those my-space pages, where you put in your mood, except I could just insert opinions, and she'd obsessively check it for updates..... naah, that's gonna almost certainly get in the way of the ironing.




Now THAT is humour *Chuckles*


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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/29/2008 5:34:02 AM   
pettingdragons


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
so ... how about those of us who actually *do* want to be/wish to own "doormats" ...not all the time .. but some of the time
It makes me very happy to be "doormatty" some of the time .. and it please Him also ... just do what works ... it's not rocket science


Do we get to vote on who is the doormat for each thread? and everyone has to come by adn whip their feet on us?
**Hard limit on the dog scooting across my face!!!**

pettingdragons
**Master Dragons considered slave**

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/29/2008 4:19:27 PM   
stella41b


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Wow, so it's an either or choice is it? A submissive either has to be a doormat, or they aren't a doormat.. and doormat here can only be ever linked to their identity?

Okay, so how about this? How about if I say that there are times when you can be a doormat and it's appreciated, and times when it isn't? This isn't any sort of flash of genius, but just paying particular attention to all the postings made by Dominants or about Dominants and drawing some kind of consensus.

I fall back on my favourite analogy of BDSM and theatre (or theater for some of you out there). It's really like the director and actor or actress, a Dominant and submissive or slave. The submissive is the performer, the artist, the dancer, and must either act or dance to the tune of the Dominant.

When an actor performs, does he not show complete and total obedience, whether it be on the stage or in front of the camera? When an actress is in role, is she not totally submissive to both director and script? She delivers the lines exactly as they are meant to be delivered, the same words, the same tone, stress, inflection, she uses the gestures and body language in the descalia of the script, she has submerged her whole self, character, thoughts and feelings to become her character, who she is portraying for an audience.

This is, as far as I'm aware, and I may be wrong (I'm human) what a Dominant wants from a submissive, someone who can think, act, interpret, assume a role, and deliver a performance, albeit a performance under their control and only for their benefit. The only variable is, like the actor, how much freedom to improvize you are given, if at all.

I can be and am at times a doormat, I can submit totally, and you can do whatever you like to me, anything, and I will respond, I will take it, speak and I will jump, and it doesn't matter whether I like it or not, whether I am afraid or not, whether I agree with what you're doing or not, whether I am upset, whether it is hard for me, difficult, painful, it doesn't matter - I am the submissive, I submit, I serve, I obey, and to me as a submissive obedience isn't conditional, it is absolute. You either give it or you don't. There's no such thing as degrees of obedience.

But just because I'm being a doormat at that particular time doesn't mean to say I'm a doormat in real life, or weak or wishy washy. Sure yes I'll let you get away with a lot, you can walk all over me, even push me around a little, but more fool you if you think this is weakness or being wishy washy. Fool's paradise.

As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm not a weak or wishy washy person. Far from it. This is just an act, a performance, the role I play because it gives me really deep emotional fulfillment, and I'm well equipped to seize power or control if and when I need to. However I try and keep that bit secret (it makes some Dominants nervous and insecure).

I couldn't be a doormat, I'd be more of a magic carpet. Try and wipe your feet on me and we're either flying some place or you end up on your butt by the front door having cracked your head on the front door thinking 'What happened?'

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/29/2008 4:46:31 PM   
CruelDesires


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I would rather not have an "actress " but rather someone who does what I want and is completely obedient to me because they feel the need driving them from deep inside themselves. Not from some act she puts on.

CD

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 5/29/2008 4:57:34 PM   
flyingsolo


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I can't believe I nearly missed this thread seeing as I'm the one who was asking for help understanding the whole doormat issue in the first place…

The way I see it now is that being a doormat has nothing to do with how submissive you are - it is about with whom you choose to be submissive.  If a person values themselves and chooses carefully who they submit to, it wouldn't matter how completely obedient they were I would not consider them a doormat.  If another person offered the same level of obedience to anyone who demanded it, I would consider them a doormat.

I think it's just like life in general - there are always those who will get taken advantage of because of an unhealthy need to please and gain approval.  But there are also those who recognize their needs and wisely find ways to satisfy them while retaining a sense of self-worth.

Just my opinion.  But I am still new at this.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 1:11:58 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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For me, level of obedience isn't what defines someone as a 'doormat', as I require that high level of obedience from any of my servants. The differentiating factor, for me, is whether this person is happy only when xhe is giving hirself completely away. If that is the only place that person finds fulfillment... in completely emptying hirself to whomever asks, then xhe is liable to be labeled as a doormat...at least within much of the current framework of those who participate in WIITWD. Would I train a person into that state? I'm not really certain it can -be- trained into a person... it seems to me that it's most often an inherent state that is nurtured and reinforced, or sublimated and destroyed.

There are certain roles for a servant where that person has a great deal of autonomy and personal responsibility for keeping things moving the way they're supposed to go. It's possible to have a servant who is completely obedient to hir Keeper, and yet can negotiate, make timely decisions, and even delegate to those serving beneath hir. In neither case is it a matter of training, IMO, except in -how-... the mindset is inherent, and can only be nurtured or destroyed.


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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 1:31:16 PM   
NCNutCase


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In my opinion... the biggest difference between a "doormat" and an obedient submissive is the way they are shown appreciation....

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 1:33:45 PM   
DesFIP


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I think for most of us, complete obedience doesn't have room in it for questioning orders. If you want her to obey, then wouldn't you be upset if she said that she couldn't obey you? Because telling you that you're wrong, and disobeying for good reasons don't fall into the category of total obedience.

There are a lot of d types  who say they want complete obedience immediately, but the sub can question them later. After the harm has been done. Which makes us rather suspicious of anyone who does say they want total obedience.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 2:13:13 PM   
starshineowned


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quote:

There is a difference in the way that subs/slaves question things. If my Master says "put on nipple clips for an hour", and I say that they are only considered safe for 20 minutes or can do irreparable damage to the nipple, He has the option. If I simply say "no, I don't want to", then that is quite another inference. I was acting as an intelligent and informed person - not as a brat.


Not sure this really illustrates "the difference in the way that sub/slaves questions things" as much as it illustrates what to you is an acceptable way to question things versus what you consider a brat to be.

If Master said to put them on for an hour..the only reply would be "yes Master" and putting them on. This is the trust in him and not having a need to question it because in my mind..to offer up that information beforehand before complying..I've not showed my intelligence to him but stated that I don't trust his intelligence to know.

I'm not saying that is what is happening in your thought process so don't take it the wrong way. I'm just stating this would be my thought process in doing that. I don't expect Master to know about everything but I do trust him enough to know that he would never intentionally hurt me by doing things to me or telling me to do things that he is not as informed about as he possibly could be, and would expect me to use common sense in any situation that he would not be directly in control of..i.e. like the car engine catching on fire scenario.

I guess that some difference in how things are or when they are asked about might be as simple as whether the persons involved are trying something for the first time in experiencing/growing together..whether the persons involved are face to face when such things come about...versus them being experienced enough to know and research these things before using and being face to face with the person to whom they are doing something with so that gauging responses is possible.

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/2/2009 2:15:52 PM >


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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 2:15:28 PM   
oceanwynds


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Even with total obedience, at least in my case, it is not given in a beginning of a relationship. It takes time for me to be willing to be someone's doormat. Being a doormat though does not mitigate my intelligence, creativity, personality or my Being. It is all a part of me.

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RE: Complete obedience = doormat? - 2/2/2009 2:40:07 PM   
ResidentSadist


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When you meet a superior in the military you are not allowed to question them until they have met your criteria and you decide to grant them the power to command you.  Total obedience is required in any ranked institution.  Disobey in the military and just see what happens!  Why wouldn’t obedience be required in a ranked household?  If you don’t like to obey, don’t join either the military or a BDSM household.   

Why do I always get the funny feeling that only people with control issues can’t seem to follow well?  

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