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Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 10:30:01 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Based on some other threads I have a question for everyone.

Outside of the kinky relationship, why do some people want to be called by a title or an honorific? What do you get out of it?

What I'm hoping is that we can move beyond the "polite" argument or the "that's the way you should do kink" and really get into the motiviations.

Perhaps getting to the motiviations might help clarify why this is clearly a very emotional and intense consideration for many people.

Since I asked I'll answer first:

For me an honorific or a title is a sign of the relationship so I'm only comfortable when I've earned that term.

Sometimes this is situational -- at the college, I might "Professor" or "Instructor" or at a restaurant or a store "Ma'am" because we are really strangers just exchanging good and services for money.

Sometimes it is basic politeness -- for strangers I'm "Ma'am" or "Ms/Miss" but then generally if we will get to know each other in same fashion, I'll say "I'm TammyJo" (for example with my hair stylist after I started seeing her every couple of months).

Then there is the relationship -- when I've worked to earn the trust of someone enough to train them I'm "Milady," when we've worked enough for ownership I become "Mistress."

For me then the titles and honorifics are signs or symbols of something else. The terms of ownership or "nobility" are connected to my private kinky life. I do not want them used by anyone else because they also signal to me that I am in X type of relationship.

What are other tops/dominants motiviations and thoughts on what and when titles and honorifics are desired?

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 10/24/2005 11:35:16 AM >

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

Post #: 1

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 10:31:35 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

My feelings are exactly the same as yours except I also include "social inclusion/exclusion/comfort level indicator" as a reason I'd use formal or informal forms of address. Whether I use honorifics and when they are used can be a good sign of how comfortable I feel with someone or whether I want them to feel closer or further from me.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 2

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:17:58 AM

Kasia

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline

When I was a kid I lived on small island where my Father was having sort of practice after medical studies. It was compulsory for newly graduated doctors before going any further in specializing.
We spent 5 years there and almost none knew me by my name. For all the locals including children I was "the doctors daughter", label that was alienating me completely. I was lonely child, separated from people based on simple fact they considered my Father to be "different kind of people".

I remained to be sort of lone wolf and I am quite happy that way, but I still truly hate titels of any kind. When someone is calling me anything but Mrs or my name/nickname, I feel like he is pushing me away or keeping a distance.

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(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 3

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:29:21 AM

plantlady64

Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline

Hello There,
I'm mostly in agreement with you.
I do call even vanilla people Sir or Ma'am in public as I feel it's the right thing to do with older people and people in business fields that deserve the extra respect. In BDSM I call most Dom's Sir, but not sub men as I want to respect their choice not to be called Sir. It's the same for women, I call Domme women Ms. and not sub/slave women. I actually find in the kinky community since the crowd is mixed I call people inthe life Sir or Ma'am less than in the vanilla world.
As far as the term Master I call anyone who's practiced and devoted to their particular field of interest enough to excell in it a Master. Weather that's a Martial Arts, Craftsman, College Degreed, or Kink Master it is a title that I feel must be earned, and not for the general public to bestow on themselves.

What I get out of using these titles is knowing I am respectful to people till they show me a reason not to respect them. Calling someone Master also makes me feel good to use that word to the few Men whom I feel deserve the title. It shows to them I value their hard efforts of sticking to the straight and narrow field they specalize in. I appreciate the formality of polite conversation overall and think mostly it's just polite.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 4

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:34:26 AM

SirSix72

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

First and foremost this shows manners and good training nothing more nothing less...I see alot of subbies saying you have to earn this from me...I agree and yet I disagree...if you see this as something you bestow upon me the honor of giving me a honorific or title then you show that in the beginning you control the power exchange and in the end your limits/safewords also control the power exchange just by the context of the sentence of you bestowing or giving me something from you such as a title or honorific.......im not saying that I expect everyone to call me Master or even Sir...but to think you give me anything is a little far fetched...get honest with yourself...I also realize that there are alot of jerk whom dont deserve the title or honorific...this all depends on the way this person comes across to you...did the person automatically tell you to get on your knees or lay spread eagle on the floor before the comfort level was attained between both parties? then yes eat this person for lunch but as for the rest of us that know how to approach a sub/slave this is merely rude at the begining of the conversation.........like I tried to get across in the thread I posted "your not my Dom syndrome"

Master Six

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I wish you well

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 5

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:36:43 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

What exactly do you get out of being call "sir" or "master" by others?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 6

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:36:57 AM

LRODANDMASTER

Posts: 161
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline

YES THEIR ARE MANY JERK WHOM NOT DESERVE HONERIFIC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

I also realize that there are alot of jerk whom dont deserve the title or honorific

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LRODANDMASTER TYPE LIKE DUMASS BUT HIM NO DUMASS

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Post #: 7

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:39:09 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72
but as for the rest of us that know how to approach a sub/slave this is merely rude at the begining of the conversation.........like I tried to get across in the thread I posted "your not my Dom syndrome"

Master Six

However I have to tell you that calling a random slave "subbie" or "little one" is REALLY grating and annoying for a lot of us. They might not bring it up because it would be rude and they know your intentions are good, but it's generally not good to have that sort of tone unless you've established something with them.

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 8

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:48:22 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

YES THEIR ARE MANY JERK WHOM NOT DESERVE HONERIFIC

You LROD actually do deserve to be called Sir or Master for simply being consistent and not puttin' on airs for anyone's benefit.

M

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a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to LRODANDMASTER)

Post #: 9

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 11:49:09 AM

SirSix72

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

I am the Master of my home and emotions and I own a slave..this is respect...I see everyone say respect is earned when it is given...show me respect that you have manners and you will get respect in turn...I dont get my jollies from others calling me Master....I do have a guild I belong to im a Master Electrician and spent many years of my adult life training for it....just as I have spent many years in this alternative lifestyle and am quite articulate with the approach whether with words or actions to tohers...I do realize at times I come across as a pompus ass and hey I am thats me....would I expect you to call me Master and get on your knees grovling beofre me before we attained a comfort level with one another I think not...im not that ambigious........would I try and steal anothers sub/slave for them? I think not I live by honor and am bound by this honor for the rest of my days............I give respect not asking you to do somethiing stupid such as demanding you get on cam and show me your tits or other ignorant things some jerks can come up with to have the sub/slave do in order to show me your desire to serve...I personally can understand where alot of you come from...bella lives with me 24/7 and travels with me and some of the things that thses jerks ask her to do is outlandish.....she realizes them for what they are and hits the iggy button....but remains respectable no matter what she is faced with...this is emotional stablity within her for being able to remain a lady untill the time comes for her to be otherwise...so the words I speak dont come from an interent experience where I have online subs/slaves....I dont see how you can accomplish this personally......I have been around for the better part of a decade at this and if you read through alot of my posts you can see where I have been and where I will end up at.......im a psychology major as well while I was chasing my electrical degree..........im not trying to come across as a know it all either, I say this is from what I have experienced

Master Six

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I wish you well

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Post #: 10

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 12:01:52 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I totally do not get the whole Sir/Ma'am thing at all. I do not call Demon 'Sir' because its not what He desires. So why should I be expected to call others Sir? What makes it more polite to call a dominant (not dominate*coughs*) - 'Sir ' than it is to call him 'Mr - So & So'? It just is not good grammar.
Now, if I am in Gor - yes, the system changes - and I respect that. But no one earns a title.

If someone is rude and demanding (Like SirSx was speaking about on the other thread) then, I politely refuse. I am not about to stoop to the level of someone who wishes to to rudely demand respects by say - 'I can whoop your ass in an instant, dont tell me what to do your not my dom'... what point does that make? They effected you, your giving them the power over you. Impoliteness lets them win.

Subbies, girl, not using my name - I find rude - and I would politely ask not to be refered to in such a way. If they cannot accept politeness, then I would just remove myself away. Not be drawn into a struggle for 'whos got the power'. Power arguements for people who are losing their power and fighting to keep it. Fighting to hold onto something that doesn't exist.

For myself... Politness is always given. Respect cannot be earnt, but it grows. Everyone dies. Everybody expects everything, yet everyone deserves nothing. 'I am power' is weakness, humility is beautiful.
I find the amount of double standards astounding.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 11

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 12:13:22 PM

Kasia

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
However I have to tell you that calling a random slave "subbie" or "little one" is REALLY grating and annoying for a lot of us.

I am not sub nor slave, but I too find expression "little one" extremely annoying. Being 160 cm tall I found myself called that all the time and it freaks me out. (Ok, I sort of like it when my hubby says it

)

_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 12

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 12:29:15 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Outside of the kinky relationship, why do some people want to be called by a title or an honorific? What do you get out of it?

As a longtime California resident, it has been this slave’s experience that if anyone refers to you with the “honorific” of “dude’, it could mean quite a few things, the least of which is that they are not necessarily referring to your gender. The tone one uses and how many syllables they turn the one-syllable word into is a pretty good indicator of it’s intended expression.

High pitch, one syllable-surprise and familiar recognition
As in “Dude!" (Are we surprised to see you here!!!!)

Low pitch, one syllable-disappointment or disgust
“Dude! (You backed over my mailbox!)

High pitch, two syllable-surprise and disbelief
“Du-ude!" (No WAY you are going to Amsterdam for the weekend!!!)

Low pitch, two(or more) syllables-definitely serious trouble ahead
“Du-ude!" (You signed up for 17 units AND a full-time job?)

Most important to remember, it’s more than likely just a locality thing, probably won’t happen to you outside of southern California, but just in case you visit and someone happens to call you dude, regardless of if you are male or female, it’s usually not meant as an insult, unless it is preceded or followed by a direct one, as in “fuck you, dude!” If you aren't careful, spend enough time here and it can creep into even a casual New Yorker's speech!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 13

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 2:31:44 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

Titles are a tool used by people (aliens I imagine too but I have no direct experience with that so I'll keep it to humans) to indicate how we interact - me with them.

For example I am a student (title) and I talk to my professor (title) I don't go up to him and say hey Joe how's it hanging man? No I say good day to you Mr. Jones!

Obviously an exaggeration.

What does the title holder get from having their title? Status. Honor (sir/maam/doctor/etc.), respect, the lack of honor, lack of respect (slut/sissy maid). Some 'professors' think they are god's gift to humanity - others are humble servants of society or a million other things.

Now if we could all just agree on a universal means of using them. O'wait we still haven't even all agreed on what they mean! :-) Never going to happen.

D (owner of j)

< Message edited by Wolfie648 -- 10/24/2005 2:32:34 PM >

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Possibly.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 4:48:58 PM

lilcollared1

Posts: 3
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

Titles mean different things to different people. Any title can be made to have less or more value. I work with a lot of PhD's and I've seen some outlandish things as a result "Dr" doesn't hold the high position it used to. When someone uses a title, there are always two versions of the meaning in play. To me, you can call me "jerk" "slut" "subbie" if I don't respect you what does it matter?

Have you ever tried the experiment where you sit in a quiet room and repeat a word for 5 minutes? It eventually loses it's meaning to you for a while. It's really cool.

Also, to me, I always use a slightly higher title for people in the vanilla world. I keep my "sir's" and "ma'ams" upfront. You never know who you're talking to and everyone would love to get a little bump in honorific where they can get it; you may make someone's day. I kind of like the distance it put between me and strangers.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 15

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 5:20:40 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I get the feeling, from reading the boards for quite some time, that many individuals think that one cannot show respect or politeness without titles and deference.

I am polite to everyone (barring some drastic action) I respect everyone as an individual. I am able to respect one as an individual without calling him/her either Sir/Ma'am or slave.

I am confused by the idea that one the only way to respect an individual is to use a title of deference.

Also. In regards of the need to "show respect." I respect all individuals as people. People have no need to earn that respect, I believe all individuals are worhty of it. However, I am not respectful of everyone. I am respectful of someone whom I personally greatly admire and look up to. I show my respect to individuals who have moved and affected me personally. Perhaps this is a semantic difference, but for me respecting someone, and being respectful are different actions.

I respect all individuals as human beings. I am respectful of individuals who have moved and affected me greatly. Or who I belong to.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 5:35:25 PM

sunshine333

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline

i enjoy titles ... but only when they are honest and appropriate. i enjoy nicknames and terms of endearment. i enjoy anything that reenforces my slavery. but i only enjoy these things at the right time, said by the right person.

i can remember once being awakened by my Master shouting, "slave!" i woke up immediately and my first thought was, "yes. that's me. i AM a slave." i was thrilled to not be called by name but rather by title. i felt my slavery in such a powerful way in that moment. i would not, however, have felt the same way if, "slave!" was called out by anyone else other than my Master.

humbly.
sunshine

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 17

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 6:37:35 PM

Belladonna82

Posts: 171
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

Maybe it was my upbringing as a child...boarding schools..especialy all girl schools with nuns running around tend to teach you to respect those around you....especialy if they are of higher authority which i am not saying call every tom dick or harry Master or Mistress....just a nice Sir or Ma'am....a slave/submissive should be humble to all of those whom show their authority to you.Now if some guy pmed me saying hey slut wanna...lets get together....i am gonna call him many names...but Sir isnt one of them.Master has taught me how to tell the real from the blumbering village idiot.Yes,Master calls pretty much all submissive women "little one" its His way of showing that He knows you are submissive and respects that....because "little one" normaly means a term of enderment...without the pick up lines lol.Master would never try to sway anouther submissive/slave....lol he has no need to try he isnt some 500lb idiot with no charm. So please understand...that some of us were raised with good ole fashion manners...since after all the ideas of a submissive women came from the middle ages where You refered to all men as Sir unless they were your stall boy for your horses....Please just keep in mind where this lifestyle came from the charm and beautiful lifestyle of those dead and gone.....so dont jump down those of us who wish to keep the beauty of the old ways alive....
This is my opinion...you may take it or leave it............i just wish to keep with the old ways as does Master.....To each their own...but do not tell me i should stop the way i treat those higher then me....i was raised to be a lady...after catholic boarding schools and finishing schools ........my parents put far to much money into my teachings to be lost.....so Blessed be....and i hope everyone understands...i do not wish to argue...but dont disrespect someones ideas if you do not agree.....be a lady or gentleman and politely state your opinion :) Thanks and have a great eve...

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Blessed be!

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Post #: 18

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 6:58:07 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I was raised to be a lady, too, and I treat everyone with equal courtesy, or at least manage it 98% of the time. Courtesy and manners are not the same thing as respect----manners are the grease that keeps society running smoothly, the feeling behind the facade might be very different. We are polite to those in authority over us (if we're sensible) regardless of how we feel about them.

My name is Francine. One of my screen names is MistressFrancine, because MsFrancine was already taken lol. Also, on the internet, I find it's helpful to announce my orientation upfront. I never expect anyone to call me by other than my name, unless we are in some kind of power exchange situation---then we move to Ms Francine. Ma'am, to me, is acceptable anytime, though I have younger friends who will blow a gasket if you call them by that old-lady term!

I get introduced as Mistress all the time, and I tolerate it, because it's used as an orientation indicator. I don't expect it from anyone that I am not in a personal relationship with. I don't call anyone "master" unless I am introducing them or referring to them in writing.

I am happy to say that no one has ever referred to me as "little one", or any other kind of patronizing diminutive. I can see how terms of endearment work within a relationship, but to extend that out to a group at large? I would be insulted.

Ms F

(in reply to Belladonna82)

Post #: 19

RE: Titles and Honorifics - 10/24/2005 6:59:54 PM

anopheles

Posts: 241
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline

The Master/Sir, Mistress/Ms. terminology If my Dragon called me Master I would be beyond irritated, because I don't like those terms. I would prefer that she just refer to me by my name, or a term of endearment rather than by an honorific. If a submissive that I didn't know were to call me Sir or something like that, I would politely ask her to not call me by that term, because even if I were into it, to a stranger, I am neither her Sir or her Master, and would not like to be thought of as such.

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Post #: 20

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