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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 6:06:18 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
As a longtime California resident, it has been this slave’s experience that if anyone refers to you with the “honorific” of “dude’, it could mean quite a few things, the least of which is that they are not necessarily referring to your gender.

Beth, I have a sudden urge to watch The Great Lebowski...

- LA

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 6:33:40 AM

MistressYlwa

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I have enjoyed reading the replys. I can only respond from my point of view.

Having been in the lifestyle for over 25 yrs., I have seen a lot of changes in the way I am spoken to (among other things). Also from the south, so have old fashioned ideas. There are really only a few things I am picky about.

I have trained extensively in my preferred areas of domination and continue to explore and train in new ones. Though Mistress is a title I reserve for those who belong to me, I will not penalize anyone for recognizing my position. I will explain that I prefer it not to be used except as a sign of ownership.

Do treat me with respect. Ms. or Ma'am is fine. If you don't, and you are seeking ownership, it only tells me that you do not respect dominance, have received poor training, and are not someone I would be interested in. If you are seeking conversation, it tells me you respect my position. If you don't, I might respond eventually, but you won't have priority in my conversations.

I have a number of degrees, including a doctorate. I don't demand the title of Dr. However the students who use it show me that they recognize the work and effort it takes to achieve it and respect me for that effort. (I do not penalize anyone for not using it.)

Hope this answers your question. Is only one opinion, but as it is mine, will be the one I follow. LOL

Mistress Ylwa

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 6:54:16 AM

candystripper

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A little bias of mine....unless You are making resturant reservations...people who hold Doctorates (like me) should not ask for/accept the title of Dr when being addressed. This pet peeve gets under my skin especially when psychologists use Dr; a client can easily be mystified and think he is being treated by a psychiatrist. i think Dr conjures up someone with a medical degree and licensed to practice...well, maybe dentists as well...probably pays to be nice to Your dentist, LOL.

candystripper

P.S. For me, the proper form of address by student to teacher at the collegate level is "professor". i know some schools have titled their teachers as "instructors" but i still think the title "professor" is just more socially adept.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 8:48:54 AM

LadyAngelika

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candystripper,

I actually disagree with your last post. When someone has successfully completed doctoral studies, they are a doctor. Simple as that. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. They have worked long and hard for their title and if they want to use it, they should be able to without feeling that it is reserved for medical doctors.

That being said, I've been in the academic milieu for many years now. It is interesting how the more secure and laid back professors drop the "Dr" and just have their students call them by their first name. But when it comes time for research and publication, their qualifications play a big role in their credibility.

- LA

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 9:36:48 AM

candystripper

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quote:

That being said, I've been in the academic milieu for many years now. It is interesting how the more secure and laid back professors drop the "Dr" and just have their students call them by their first name. But when it comes time for research and publication, their qualifications play a big role in their credibility.

- LA

This is true in the US as well. i have spent about 2 1/2 years researching for a law professor and during that time, she has moved to a more prestigious school, for more money, and has published in more respected law journals. My work, for example, was published by the Univ of Akron Law School, while my professor's was published by an ivy league school; i believe Harvard. She was able to access the Harvard Journal on the strength of the article itself; her body of work; her university's prestige, etc.

i myself just feel Dr can be limited to the medical physicians (and dentists, LOL) here in the US, inasmuch as those who remained in academia are generally called "professor" and those who sought employment in the private sector have positions with titles adequate to acknowledge their accomplishments in education.

However if i were someone's student and they indicated they wished to be addressed as Dr i am no fool -- that is how i would address them.

candystripper to Dr LadyAngelika

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/2/2005 9:38:30 AM >

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 10:52:58 AM

JohnWarren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
i myself just feel Dr can be limited to the medical physicians (and dentists, LOL) here in the US, inasmuch as those who remained in academia are generally called "professor" and those who sought employment in the private sector have positions with titles adequate to acknowledge their accomplishments in education.

Actually, there are two factors here. One "Doctor" is an academic title. It predates medical types for hundreds of years. It was only when the medical profession cleaned up their act and started to have schools instead of apprenticeships like cooks and chimney sweeps did that cast around for a title and took "doctor" because it sounded better than "specialized barber." In that sense the question "Are you an MD or a real doctor?" makes sense.

Professor is a job title. Not all doctors hold professorships. While most professors are doctors because that is a minimum entry accomplish with most schools.

This leads to another, more personal, prejudice. For several years, I was one of those non-doctorate professors at East Carolina University. Because of my work as a journalist and foreign correspondent I was admitted to the faculty with an MA degree. This put some status conscious professor's noses out of joint and they went out of their way to make sure I was addressed in faculty meetings and once at a White House reception as Mister. This has led to a bit of a personal aversion to Mister. I grew up American, so I don't have any problem with being addressed as John and don't have much feeling one way or another with scene people using titles like "Master" on me since I didn't chose them myself, but everytime I'm addressed as "Mister Warren there is a subtle frisson of distate. It's not something I correct people about but since the topic is up. I'll add that.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 11:15:46 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

candystripper to Dr LadyAngelika

Actually, very soon M.Ed.

But PhD... well maybe in another 7 years when I get over this hurdle!

- LA

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 11:23:25 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

Professor is a job title. Not all doctors hold professorships. While most professors are doctors because that is a minimum entry accomplish with most schools.

Well I would tell you that since many Doctors that have tenured professorships are only interested in research and try to finagle their way out of teaching the populace, more and more appointments are made to non-doctoral candidates to teach the course. Even someone with a Magistrate will be called professor in this instance.

quote:

I was admitted to the faculty with an MA degree. This put some status conscious professor's noses out of joint

And like you, I see the treatment of the PhDs to the non-PhDs. And it's silly abominable. What is required to teach at Baccalaureate or Magistrate level is a broad knowledge of the field, a damn good textbook or course pack and the capacity to generate discussion and stimulate creative and critical thinking amongst the students. Sure there are other qualifications but those are the essentials. I tell you, if competency to teach was a required skill in universities, many PhD professors would flounder.

- LA

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 11:37:22 AM

candystripper

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quote:

It's not something I correct people about but since the topic is up. I'll add that.

John Warren

Well Sir; i have an aversion to "Ma'am" and "lady"; i will tolerate "lady" only from IronBear, to whom i gave permission to address in any way He saw fit. The reasons are personal and scarcely worth trying to correct people about except in rare circumstances. i have heard many tales of vicious and childish behavior in academia -- not to mention being taken aback at what a law journal will print -- in some ways it may be the most stressful workplace with its hypersensitivity to all the -isms and its cutthroat competition for tenure.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/3/2005 3:41:13 PM >

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 2:45:57 PM

Oberonrex

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Coming in late and there are a lot of good posts, but for me I use honorifics out of courtesy and good manners. Manners are oil for the social machine, and courtesy is the grease. That said, I do not necessarily follow formal titles; unlike the military, I reserve the right to decide if someone has earned that level of respect. They usually get it once if need be, but don't get it again unless earned.

My own foible is that I don't like to be called Master by anyone except those who serve me or have otherwise earned that right.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 5:25:31 PM

LadiesBladewing

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I disagree with your comments. I have 3 doctorates. 1 of them is in a branch of medicine that I can't practice in the United States, the other 2 are doctorates in Philosophy. They are not -technical- degrees, and required that I work -hard- to develop a new idea in the fields in which I obtained them. In both PhD cases, I had to study extensively abroad to be able to complete my work. I -am- a Doctor of Philosophy, and the term "Doctor" is absolutely appropriate and -earned-.

To say that, because my degree is not in Western Medicine, that I have not EARNED being called Doctor indicates either a misunderstanding of the useage of the term and what goes into being a PhD, or a level of disrespect that is, fortunately, only rarely encountered. I prefer to think that it is a simple misunderstanding.

As far as the Psychologist/Psychiatrist issue, as a pastoral counselor (for which I do not hold a doctorate), I preferentially refer to psychologists over psychiatrists -- the reason for this is that it has been my experience that, when guiding people to taking responsibilities for their lives and recovering from traumas and mistakes that have made their lives difficult, a psychologist tends to guide, while not taking the responsibility from where it should lie -- with the individual who is trying to heal. It has been my experience that psychiatrists are the best option ONLY where there is a physiological reason behind a psychological problem (hormone imbalance, neurochemical imbalance, etc.). Psychiatrists are medical doctors, and tend to focus on medicating and "treating", rather than providing tools and a sounding board to enable the patient to solve issues on his or her own. Referring first to a psychologist (as a pastoral counselor) is enabling for the patient, and any reputable psychologist will be able to recognize when there may be physiological complications that would respond well to medication, and will refer to a psychiatrist.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

A little bias of mine....unless You are making resturant reservations...people who hold Doctorates (like me) should not ask for/accept the title of Dr when being addressed. This pet peeve gets under my skin especially when psychologists use Dr; a client can easily be mystified and think he is being treated by a psychiatrist. i think Dr conjures up someone with a medical degree and licensed to practice...well, maybe dentists as well...probably pays to be nice to Your dentist, LOL.

candystripper

P.S. For me, the proper form of address by student to teacher at the collegate level is "professor". i know some schools have titled their teachers as "instructors" but i still think the title "professor" is just more socially adept.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/2/2005 5:35:14 PM

LadiesBladewing

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I've run into this prejudice as well, and, in fact, where I work now, none of my doctorates are recognized because in order to finish them, I had to do much of my final work through European universities. I put in the years, ploughed through the libraries, and beat my head against the typewriter, but I chose the wrong fields and the wrong schools... Oh well.

In the end, I opted to gravitate towards the fields that I am most active in, and claim the titles of my spiritual path. These days, the doctorates make nice wall-paper, though it is nice, on the rare occasions when someone remembers to use my academic title when inviting me to some such vanilla thing.

You've always impressed me, Professor Warren. *smiles* (Though I only know your work in this one field, I expect that your work in other fields would be every bit as impressive.)

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

This leads to another, more personal, prejudice. For several years, I was one of those non-doctorate professors at East Carolina University. Because of my work as a journalist and foreign correspondent I was admitted to the faculty with an MA degree. This put some status conscious professor's noses out of joint and they went out of their way to make sure I was addressed in faculty meetings and once at a White House reception as Mister. This has led to a bit of a personal aversion to Mister. I grew up American, so I don't have any problem with being addressed as John and don't have much feeling one way or another with scene people using titles like "Master" on me since I didn't chose them myself, but everytime I'm addressed as "Mister Warren there is a subtle frisson of distate. It's not something I correct people about but since the topic is up. I'll add that.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 5:29:31 AM

DublinSwitch

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Personally I have a distaste for any person that 'demands' an honorific, whether they have earned it or not.

First of all 'Doctors' - plenty of people have worked hard and long in their chosen profession, whether that be academia or picking up litter. Why should a hard working and dedicated person that has gained an academic qualification have some 'title' bestowed on them that is not available to an equally hard working person person that picks up litter?

The academic person is likely making a lot more money, have a better social standing, good prospects etc. and thats all fine, but to also expect the rest of the world to give them some sort of 'title' is sheer gobshitery.

The same with 'Sir'.

Here in Ireland we have a rather succesful entrepreneur that has gotten an OBE (?) from the Queen of England (open to correction on this, someone in the UK gave him something that means he is a 'Sir'). Same guy owns a couple of newspapers, in which he is generally called 'Sir A. O'Reilly. Course the other newspapers don't bother with the 'Sir' bit - fairly obvious reason, we spent quite a while trying to get rid of all our sirs, lords, barons and the rest of them. But this guy obviously wants to be called a Sir, dunno why, couldn't care less really, but I think its kind of pathetic an Irish bloke insisting that he is called 'Sir' whatever.

He has 'earned' his money, he has 'earned' my respect in that he is succesful, but the fact that someone in some other country has deemed that he has 'earned' a 'Sir' means bugger all to me.

Doctors, Sirs, Mistress's or whatever, online or off who think that they have 'earned' a title not available to the rest of the population all strike me as pathetic and unsecure.

If anyone points out that they have '25 years of experience in the lifestyle' (whatever the fuck that means) and that they should, therefore, be called 'Master' as they have 'earned' it and its a sign of 'respect' - well personally I would run away from that individual.

I have no problem while playing with someone, to call them Mistress or whatever (if that turns them on), but if they think I am going to call them anything other than their name or nick outside of that - well they have another thing coming.

Course I am a dreadful hypocrite as I usually do call people of my parents generation Mr or Mrs...go figure...I kinda do respect people that have made it through life and have no problem showing them respect.

Cheers

DS

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 7:20:38 AM

IronBear

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I dont know the system with Physicians in the US, however here many Medical "Doctors" dont have a Doctorate but must have at least a Batchelors Degree in Medicine. Some will go on the get a degree in surgery and many will be elected to various prestegous organizations with the level of "Fellow" being the prize, especially one of the British organizations "Royal College of Surgeons" is one I can think of off hand. With the Psychologists i deal and spend time with, few if any use the title of Dr. even though a fair number do have a Doctorate in Psychology. What tickles me is that a Physician works his guits out through Med School to be called Doctor and not Mr/Mrs/Miss/Mz and gthen works their guts out for god only knows how many years to become a Surgeon so they can me addressed as Mister. Wierd thinking that, perhaps they have sniffed too much anesthetic in theater.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 8:20:12 AM

hawk58

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quote:

Outside of the kinky relationship, why do some people want to be called by a title or an honorific? What do you get out of it?

For me, when introducing myself, I introduce myself as HAwk, or my given name (dependant upon the situation BDSM event or vanilla)

I dont expect other dominants or submissives to refer to me via an honorific. If they choose to use a title such as Master Hawk, or Sir Hawk etc...thats up to them, and their comfort levels.

If dove is making the intros, she introduce me as Master Hawk, since she is my owned slave.

She too has a title she has earned. That title is "slave" She worked hard for it. Do we expect others to addres sher as "slave dove"? No. But because she has earned it, and tohers, i take pleasure in calling her Mine, slave, girl, bitch, little one etc...

What do I get out of it when I am addressed with an honorific. If my girl addresses me as Sir, or Master, Daddy-I get the pleasure and glowing sence of pride at being her Owner.

If a peer addresses me in an honorific of their choice- a sence of having earned their respect and comraderie. Another submissive- a sense that I have earned their respect and trust as well.

If a waitress or service oriented staff person adresses me as "Sir". A common curtousy and good training/manners.

A younger vanilla person- good manners, and probaly taught to respect their elders (as I am 58yrs)

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 8:33:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Heehee something I found cute is when one of my best friends started getting to know a local dominant. We would hang out often and their relationship grew very strong very fast. Recently it's become a live-in situation and she calls him sir all the time, even to me!

I find it amusing because I KNOW who he is, I don't call him sir and until recently she always called him by his name as well. The sudden change,e ven when talking to others, is funny.

Of course, it can be annoying if you have a BUNCH of friends around doing the same thing sorting out all the sirs and slaves is tough.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 3:27:56 PM

candystripper

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quote:

I disagree with your comments. I have 3 doctorates. 1 of them is in a branch of medicine that I can't practice in the United States, the other 2 are doctorates in Philosophy. They are not -technical- degrees, and required that I work -hard- to develop a new idea in the fields in which I obtained them. In both PhD cases, I had to study extensively abroad to be able to complete my work. I -am- a Doctor of Philosophy, and the term "Doctor" is absolutely appropriate and -earned-.

To say that, because my degree is not in Western Medicine, that I have not EARNED being called Doctor indicates either a misunderstanding of the useage of the term and what goes into being a PhD, or a level of disrespect that is, fortunately, only rarely encountered. I prefer to think that it is a simple misunderstanding.

LadiesBladewing

No fear...my little bias does not overtake good manners. You may be Dr LadiesBladewing to me if it pleases You.

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 3:32:26 PM

candystripper

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quote:

I dont know the system with Physicians in the US, however here many Medical "Doctors" dont have a Doctorate but must have at least a Batchelors Degree in Medicine. Some will go on the get a degree in surgery and many will be elected to various prestegous organizations with the level of "Fellow" being the prize, especially one of the British organizations "Royal College of Surgeons" is one I can think of off hand. With the Psychologists i deal and spend time with, few if any use the title of Dr. even though a fair number do have a Doctorate in Psychology. What tickles me is that a Physician works his guits out through Med School to be called Doctor and not Mr/Mrs/Miss/Mz and gthen works their guts out for god only knows how many years to become a Surgeon so they can me addressed as Mister. Wierd thinking that, perhaps they have sniffed too much anesthetic in theater.

IronBear

i've decided academia is just not terribly reality based. i was required to earn my doctorate before i was allowed to earn my masters degree. The air in a university is rarified indeed, at least in this country.

candystripper

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 4:46:32 PM

LadiesBladewing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i've decided academia is just not terribly reality based. i was required to earn my doctorate before i was allowed to earn my masters degree. The air in a university is rarified indeed, at least in this country.

candystripper

Candystripper, may I ask what you have your doctorate in? The reason I ask is because my mate has just been told the same thing... that she has to complete the doctorate program in her new field of study and that once she's done with that, they will issue the Masters retroactively. She asked about -only- taking the Masters, and was told that they don't -offer- a Masters...unless she completes the doctorate. *sighs* We're not young any more. Another 5 years+ to finish another doctorate is only debatably worthwhile, but without it, she won't be able to move into the next position level and is maxed out at her job.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 11/3/2005 4:47:45 PM >

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RE: Titles and Honorifics - 11/3/2005 5:04:30 PM

candystripper

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quote:

Candystripper, may I ask what you have your doctorate in? The reason I ask is because my mate has just been told the same thing... that she has to complete the doctorate program in her new field of study and that once she's done with that, they will issue the Masters retroactively. She asked about -only- taking the Masters, and was told that they don't -offer- a Masters...unless she completes the doctorate. *sighs* We're not young any more. Another 5 years+ to finish another doctorate is only debatably worthwhile, but without it, she won't be able to move into the next position level and is maxed out at her job.

Lady Zephyr

Dr LadiesBladeswing, donca love the lack of logic and consideration for students' needs this sort of thing is symptomatic of at universities? The information You requested has been emailed to You.

candystripper

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