RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (Full Version)

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subtee -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 1:37:34 PM)

It seems to me giving advice, especially to a broad, largely unknown audience is different than mentoring.



Archer -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 1:59:55 PM)

Well when talking about MAsT meetings being "larger" it's a bit of a relative term.
Meetings tend to be maybe a dozen or two people for small chapters, and maybe 40-50 when they have a special event. Unless it's a MAsT meeting at a large event when it's 100 folks or so and basicly it's a contrast and compare how the various chapters are set up and what they are all doing.

When meetings go over about 30 people they tend to get a bit less effective at doing what we at MAsT Atlanta like which is a discussion much like these forums but face to face. When it gets above that 30 mnumber folks tend to be a bit less forthcomming with their real issues.



Floggings4You -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 2:23:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

This came up, for me, because whenever I indulge my sadistic side I wind up feeling uncomfortable that I enjoy hurting people, and horribly scared of losing control during the act and simply giving in to the thrill and rush.


1)  Do you trust Your partner(s) to use safewords appropriately and correctly?
 
2)  And, more importantly, do You trust Yourself to respect those safewords, when they are used?
 
It is a strange, counter-intuitive thing to enjoy inflicting pain on another person.  I think it's good that You do acknowledge this.  And if you have any hesitation regarding safewords, I think You should be concerned.
 
But, if You can honestly answer 'Yes' to the above two questions, I don't think You have much to worry about...




RCdc -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 2:54:05 PM)

Mentoring/teaching is something you learn from many people - not an individual.  You learn it from life and from all.
If you stick to a single person you will only end up emulating the individual and not learning your own techniques and positions.
 
Go to munches, attend fetish events and fairs, join Informed consent and get to know the people.  There are many workshops or demonstrations available and you just have to find the nearest to you.  And then ask those that are hired for demos if they teach, if it is specific tools you want to learn.
 
the.dark.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:00:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A GOOD mentor and especially good mentorS, as in plural, are wonderful things to have, the difficulty is in finding them and spotting the difference between a good one and a bad one.   Bad ones often tell you what you want to hear and thus sucker in newbies and good ones often tell you the things you don't want to hear like "slow down" or "not yet"...


Right, which is why I specified taking the time to find one. That implied watching them and their behavior outside of whatever they say to you...seeing how others feel about them and such. In the end, even bad mentors can teach something through negative example.

I learned a lot from my mentor even though I ended the friendship after several years. I also learned a lot from the people in my group just by asking for them to share something I was interested in. Most Dominants are thrilled to be asked to share!

I think the single most common problem with choosing a mentor is that people really aren't looking for a mentor or teacher or trainer...they're looking for a play partner or fuck buddy. I think that ruins more "mentoships" than anything else, be that it came through deliberate disception or a lack of ability to be honost about what you want/need.

Master Fire



frazzle121 -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:14:13 PM)

To no-one in particular.

Just remember, some who say they want a mentor, just use is at a excuse to find a no emotional strings 'play' partner to try things out with.

After an abusive relationship, i found a play partner, purely to re-test the waters.  I was honest enough to say, that was what i was doing.   I could just as easily, have said I was looking for a mentor.



subtee -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:17:19 PM)

I don't believe mentor and teacher mean the same thing. A person standing at the front of the classroom is not, to my mind, a mentor. A mentor is more intimately involved with the mentee's life and experiences. There is a sharing, an interaction and therefore trust is paramount. It has to do with counselling based on an exchange of information, it seems to me.



cjan -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:21:28 PM)

Nevertheless, a teacher can be a mentor and vice versa.



metalmiss -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:23:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

It seems to me giving advice, especially to a broad, largely unknown audience is different than mentoring.


i agree, in my experience in the UK thats usually known as a "talk" or when its practical demonstrated advice, a "demo". Certainly not "mentoring", to me mentoring is one on one communication between a mentor and a student. 

Something else that nobody seems to have touched on so far..

Is that given the s-type can be quite literally placing their life in the hands of the Dominant/Top, it would appear to me that if they had questions about their own ability to maintain control of themselves and not get carried away, to the point of being "horribly scared", then they shouldn't be putting themselves in that position and playing at all. In that situation, i would consider that person to be a danger to themselves and others.



Archer -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:51:54 PM)

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm mis stating anyones possition but I believe when folks say mentoring at a group, they much more mean they expresss their opinions openly at the discussions, and offer further advice, communication etc that would be more one to one when someone expresses an interest in their style/ ability/ wisdom (cough cough) etc.



camille65 -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 3:55:16 PM)

I've never thought of the word mentor as meaning to mentor a group, always as in mentoring an individual.Much like all the threads that disparage doms saying they want to mentor a new sub or newer inexperienced dom.  men·tor
play_w2("M0222200")


 (m[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gif[/image]n[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image]tôr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif[/image], -t[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]r) n.
1. A wise and trusted counselor or teacher.2. Mentor Greek Mythology Odysseus's trusted counselor, in whose guise Athena became the guardian and teacher of Telemachus.v. men·tored, men·tor·ing, men·tors Informal v.intr.
To serve as a trusted counselor or teacher, especially in occupational settings.v.tr.
To serve as a trusted counselor or teacher to (another person).  eta, added last four words that I didn't properly paste!



IvyMorgan -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 4:02:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss
Something else that nobody seems to have touched on so far..

Is that given the s-type can be quite literally placing their life in the hands of the Dominant/Top, it would appear to me that if they had questions about their own ability to maintain control of themselves and not get carried away, to the point of being "horribly scared", then they shouldn't be putting themselves in that position and playing at all. In that situation, i would consider that person to be a danger to themselves and others.

Perhaps because they assume that someone so afraid of causing harm to someone else wouldn't play unless she was sure she wouldn't?

And I'm not about to be doing anything even remotely life endangering.  When I play, and have played in the past, I use techniques I am quite proficient in, because, yes, I had skilled people teach me, and I've had the practice.

The "horribly scared" is about a shift in my mental state, not about a lack of skills in what it is that I do.  Thank you to the poster who asked the questions about safewords, that was the most reassuring thing I could have read, so, thank you.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 4:03:34 PM)

I've seen more injury take place from an over-confident person than I have ever seen take place from someone who feels insecure and worries about doing harm.  In fact, I don't really recall ever having seen someone who was scared of making mistakes - do any real injury to someone.  A good healthy dose of respecting your abilities balanced with an acceptance of your potential for doing good AND harm is definitely a positive thing. 



metalmiss -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 4:43:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
The "horribly scared" is about a shift in my mental state, not about a lack of skills in what it is that I do.


And my point was clearly not concerning your "skills" at all, it was simply that a person who is "horribly scared of losing control during the act and simply giving in to the thrill and rush"  with regards to "a shift in my mental state"  isn't safe to Top anybody, or else there would be nothing to be "horribly scared" about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
And I'm not about to be doing anything even remotely life endangering.  When I play, and have played in the past, I use techniques I am quite proficient in, because, yes, I had skilled people teach me, and I've had the practice.


What you are doing might not be harmful if you were in control, but when it comes down to "loosing control", then this becomes irrelevant. What training you have had is irrelevant once you have lost control, that is the essence of "loosing control". A caning may be safe but if you loose control and cane somebody wrongly then you can very easily harm them. If this is not what you meant, maybe you should have picked your words more carefully, because that is what you said.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 5:11:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

It seems to me giving advice, especially to a broad, largely unknown audience is different than mentoring.


Subtee, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  I have never lectured to an audience, I don't think of the posters here as an audience either.   I know all the people at those meetings and as Archer said, ours is big when it is 20+ people. 

I am going to come off horribly arrogant and manipulative by my words and either I am or I can't find the right way to say this.

I feel that the more I model good behavior, the more it will spread.  I do my best to speak humbly of my experience, list my failures and how it helped me grow, to simply be human rather than uber something.  That despite being all to human, I am actually a decent dominant who was able to attract a wonderful woman and create a rather splendid relationship.  All without belonging to an ancient order, being uber presenter, or any other title.  Doesn't mean that is a better way, it is simply how I do it now and it may change next week. 

Those who bitch about the scene are not wholly off the mark, there are certainly egos who are off the charts.  Not that I am the grand poobah but I have a few reasons to strut and locally I do my very best not to.  To me, modeling that behavior IS mentoring in a sense, unconsiously after a fashion.   Same reason I am quick to talk about my weaknesses and failures as well as my insecurities and issues.  I feel that the more human I am, allows others to be human as well. 

As arrogant as I am, I would still never approach someone and say "hey kid, need a mentor."  When someone does, I will have to consider it, but till then, I will just continue as I am.



subtee -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 6:26:46 PM)

Again I must say an example or a model is not mentoring. You can show how you have grown and have developed a fantastic relationship, and you do, but this, to me, is not mentoring. It has nothing to do with those you presume to mentor in this instance. It is about you and your relationship, your foilables along your path and your ultimate success. It may be that it teaches the rest of us, but it does not mentor us individually facing the struggles and challenges that are individual to us.

We are all happy for you, Michael. But your experience, in and of itself, does not a mentor make, in my opinion.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 6:35:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires
Easiest way to learn the art of the singletail whip if you don't have someone who is actively mentoring/teaching you is to watch others use them in real life or on videos/DVD's and then practice until you pick up your own style of play. Becoming proficient in whip play takes a lot of time and practice  practice practice. :)

CD


No no no! The easiest way to learn the art of the singletail if you don't have someone who is actively mentoring/teaching you is to...

Wear A Helmet!

[:D]

Master Fire - the pop in the ear with the 12' bullwhip (not mine, sadly) just about convinced me on the helmet thing.



CruelDesires -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 7:03:10 PM)

Cowboy/wide brimmed hat and safety glasses. And... I wouldn't reccomend a 12 foot long bull as a good starting whip to learn on. Besides.... how many whips does one normally seen used in a scene thats over 6'ish foot or more? [:D]

CD



Lynnxz -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 7:07:14 PM)

Screw that, I am going to be the Bubblewrap domme.... That should be safe enough right?

I do really want to learn how to use it like I've seen a few others do. When the wrong person is on the other end, it's annoying. When it's jusssst right, It's almost relaxing. Oddly enough, I've always been a little pissy about anyone hitting me in the face, but someone actually had the skill to take about half of the thing, and use it on my face. That was interesting... O.o

Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.



subtee -> RE: Mentoring/Apprenticeships (5/27/2008 7:17:10 PM)

To Michael;

And I understand and respect that you likely don't mentor subs...but if you were to mentor me, would not need to understand anything, something about me?



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