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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 11:38:33 AM

RedMagic1

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I'm glad you and Cali posted, everhope. It's a lot harder to say something is dopey, ha-ha, if obviously non-dopey people say there's value to it.

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 11:57:40 AM

GreedyTop

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I would attend one of these if I could afford the time/travel/etc. *sigh* There are a lot of skills I'd like to learn that, frankly, I've not met anyone locally that impressed me enough to want to learn from them. Well, actually, thats not entirely true.. there is ONE guy who I'd love to apprentice to, but our schedules are SOOOOOOOOOOOO opposite,plus he travels a LOT.. *sigh*

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 5/31/2008 11:58:49 AM >

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 12:40:00 PM

BitaTruble

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~FR~

Okay, I've read through the thread and just have a few added comments to make.

When Endemol UK needed to rent out a dungeon for our segment of a documentary it was $260.00 an hour. We needed the space for a minimum of 5 hours. Feel free to do that math if you like and keep in mind that was 'just' the space cost. There were several other costs associated with the shoot and just like all venues, many of those costs are hidden so that participants might not even be aware of them .. things like insurance, lawyers, websites and other marketing materials, equipment costs, plane tickets etc.

I have never, ever, made a single penny when I've done a lecture or demo. At best I've broken even, usually, I've lost money. Most people who share their knowledge do so from the heart .. not all, but most. There are always going to be carpetbaggers about, but throwing the baby out with the bath water doesn't seem very productive to me.

On Certificates - don't you get one when you pass your drivers test? I don't see the big difference here. A certificate is no more than a piece of paper which states you have passed the competency required by XYZ body in ABC area. How much credence you give to XYZ body is up to you. Some people don't give any at all to the DMV so drive without their approval, some people give lots of credence to it so won't drive without their approval. Whether you drive with or without a license though, I don't know a whole lot of people who think it's silly to have a drivers license and, in fact, your friendly neighboorhood law enforcement officer isn't going to look to kindly upon you for not having one if you're pulled over no matter how good a driver you may be.

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:04:04 PM

crouchingtigress

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i asked the question just to throw it out, my Sir, travels the world doing classes, and selling books, and i am his buisness manager and part of my duties is to pimp him out...*grin*...so i obviously am all in favor of making money on SM skill sets.

i asked the question because i really wanted to hear the core objection....i want to know the mindset of the folks that say WTF? so i am still open to that if folks would like to post.

also i do know a graduate of that exact boot camp and i will happily say my cunt and right breast were very pleased with the person had learned...

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:04:39 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Most people who share their knowledge do so from the heart .. not all, but most.

I agree - so the question is always: how do you know? Usually the only real way is by experience. But that is so with everything - and also with the practice of D/s.
When it states in the promo in question: 'Want to be a respected and successful Dominant? Learn what it takes by attending Dom Boot Camp.' - how to know whether this statement is made tongue in cheek or whether they're actually serious? - One can always hope, but...
I have been leading workshops etc. (not bdsm related) myself, and I know it can actually also be an economic challenge to deal with, but one thing I always strived for was keeping the presentation/promotion as straightforward and clear as possible, and it was under any circumstance never aimed at creating a market.
That however seems to be the case here, and that a few red flags pops up for many people in connection with this should not be surprising.

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:15:20 PM

crouchingtigress

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heres my take on that MstrVik

i think that just because folks are really good flogging or singletails...does not make them great promoters....or buisness folks...but lets cut them some slack...i dont think them trying to create a market speak of red flags.....because afterall being a premoter of events myself i can tell you that the only folks that i have met that are willing to fork over money for skills are kinky folks, for one, and for two, creating a market say in the scuba diving example given earlier is totally fine...why would creating a market in sm be any differnt?

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:20:45 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrVik

I agree - so the question is always: how do you know? Usually the only real way is by experience. But that is so with everything - and also with the practice of D/s.
When it states in the promo in question: 'Want to be a respected and successful Dominant? Learn what it takes by attending Dom Boot Camp.' - how to know whether this statement is made tongue in cheek or whether they're actually serious? - One can always hope, but...
I have been leading workshops etc. (not bdsm related) myself, and I know it can actually also be an economic challenge to deal with, but one thing I always strived for was keeping the presentation/promotion as straightforward and clear as possible, and it was under any circumstance never aimed at creating a market.
That however seems to be the case here, and that a few red flags pops up for many people in connection with this should not be surprising.

And I agree with 'most' of this. In a nutshell, I rely on my gut and my research ability. If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is so I pass it by. If it's all up front and out in the open about what can be expected, the materials which will be presented and so on and so forth, that's all good. I can base a decision on that sort of thing. If what I've been 'told' to expect and what I've paid to expect doesn't happen, then I'll have to consider my choices in what course of action to take at that time. Red flags pop up for a reason and I do take them into consideration but I've got a lot of water under my bridge so what might flag someone else won't necessairly flag me.

The part I don't agree with so much is about creating a market. I mean, look at Pet Rocks for example. Someone had this brillant idea to polish up and sell some rocks. Was that market created or was the market which was already there (polished rock buyers) simply tapped in a new way? I don't begrudge commercialism at all and I am a capitalist at heart, not a socialist or communist. If you have a product or service and you can get people to buy it from you, more power to you. In some things, like BDSM, I choose not to go that route, but I would certainly not give away my skill set or knowledge for nothing in areas outside of BDSM. If people can make a living doing something they love doing, hell.. how many people here wouldn't like that same thing.

Anytime someone wants to pay me to write on BDSM forums, I'll send you my paypal account info.

Celeste

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:29:19 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i think that just because folks are really good flogging or singletails...does not make them great promoters....or buisness folks...but lets cut them some slack...

Ah, allright then, I will!

Actually, I've gotten a better and more nuanced picture of it by now anyway, and true enough also, we can't all be good at everything...

By the way, have you ever practiced bdsm while scuba diving? (Would there be a market for that?

)

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:31:35 PM

crouchingtigress

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funny you asked...yes i have....its pretty hot....

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 2:37:21 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

funny you asked...yes i have....its pretty hot....

LOL actually I thought you would have done that some way or other.

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RE: Excuse me, "Dom bootcamp??" - 5/31/2008 3:27:36 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

If you have a product or service and you can get people to buy it from you, more power to you. In some things, like BDSM, I choose not to go that route, but I would certainly not give away my skill set or knowledge for nothing in areas outside of BDSM. If people can make a living doing something they love doing, hell.. how many people here wouldn't like that same thing.

I don't have anything against commercialism as such, and I agree with you about the Pet Rocks example - I guess it's an open question whether that market was actually created or simply expanded upon. - But like you say also, it is a choice how you approach a potential audience, and for me personally, it is easier to trust and appreciate someone who clearly shares their insight simply because they love to do that - if they actually made a living from it as well, all the better for them. - Perhaps I have more 'scruples' about some of this because I am Scandinavian, allthough we are in every way a part of the capitalist world here, there are clear differences in culture from the US - I have lived in the US for a period so I have actually experienced it; the commercial culture is definitely a lot more aggressive in the US, and a lot of things that is often taken for granted there would easily raise eyebrows over here - and I believe a lot of the commercial tactics applied would actually have a negative effect on the larger audience here as well. Many ethical aspects of advertising are also adressed in legislation here, and is given a lot of attention in general.

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