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RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 12:44:03 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i won't comment about the submissive/slave part.  that gets overly argued around here so much.

i have a safeword and will use if and when the tickling/flogging or whatever gets too much for me. and he doesn't feel disappointed when i do.


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(in reply to mypet37)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 2:48:33 PM   
mypet37


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		i do not think that my internalizing of thoughts are a attempt to control, but a lack of relenting it.. most of all a learned response from the FIRST 37 years of my life.... it will be a hard lesson, the necessary ones are never easy.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 2:53:15 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The important thing to realize is this is a D/s relationshop and when you strip away the fancy terms and all the hype, you are still submitting to another's dominance. All the different labe;s or terms aren't as important as we tend to place too much importance on the labels then on the dynamics of our relationship. It doesn't matter if you are called submissive, slave, girl, pet, or playtoy, you are still your Master's sub.

When you just simply interact by obeying, you are just projecting what you think he wants instead of communicating what you're actually feeling, etc. As a submissive, part of opur responsibility is to be open, honest and truthfull in how we interact with our doms. Thds means we safeword when we need to, we need to express what we are feeling/how we are feeling and not give back what we assume they want to hear.

Usually when a person safewords, this indicates a limit of their tolerance, a Dom needs to know what his sub's limits are to accurately and safely determine if these tolerances are immovable or if they are flexible. Most find that in time their tolerances become broadened and the need to safeword becomes rarer or non existant.



< Message edited by beargonewild -- 5/31/2008 2:56:59 PM >

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(in reply to mypet37)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 2:56:41 PM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		You are what ever you believe you are. Labels are sometimes helpful, but the sub/slave debate has never been resolved.
One will say I am a sub because of "ABC" and another will say she is a slave and site the same reasons.  What are you in your heart?

(in reply to DickDuster)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 3:09:32 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Everything bear says rocks.
I just wanted to add to say try not to focus on the labels but on what your Master desires.  Be his.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Submissive or Slave - 5/31/2008 3:25:59 PM   
mypet37


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

You are what ever you believe you are. Labels are sometimes helpful, but the sub/slave debate has never been resolved.
One will say I am a sub because of "ABC" and another will say she is a slave and site the same reasons.  What are you in your heart?


i believe this most of all... and think it is where my confusion began. Thank You.

my heart is simple. I want to fill His life, His heart, His soul with what no one else can fill it with, completion. How Wwe get there matters less, i trust Him to lead me, listen to me, and know me.. i have only asked because i want to follow as well has He leads.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/1/2008 4:08:46 PM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		As someone who gets upset about people who call themselves a slave when they're not - and would not want to be, and can even be annoyed to hear people calling themselves submissive, hear me well, pet.

These labels have some use when discussing your role with other people.  Used well, they have a lot of use when trying to find someone compatible, when single.

For people who have found someone and are in a relationship, they are very secondary.  When your master calls you 'slave', why does he do it and what does he mean by it?  Only he can tell you (and maybe even he can't, it might be too subjective) and you can learn only from him, what it is he expects of you.  When you think of yourself as 'slave' only you can know what this means to you and what the ramifications are of that: perhaps you associate it with losing all your property - if so, does that bother you?  Perhaps it means that you would not even be permitted a safe word - if so, how do you feel about it?  Perhaps it just gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling of belonging - if so, do you mind that?

Ask him, pet.  If he has a definition (rather than the word simply giving him a warm fuzzy feeling of ownership) and his answer isn't clear, tell him and ask him to make it clear so that you can adopt his meaning of the word.  Then, you can think about whether you want to be his submissive or his slave.  But it really doesn't matter so long as he is happy with you.

Douglas.

(in reply to mypet37)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/1/2008 4:49:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mypet37

the question is then this; what makes one a slave vs a submissive. is it the fine line between wanting to ... and having to.  And for the record, yes, very new. This journey has been 4 eventful months.


You and yours decide you like one term more than the others for your own reasons. It's the same difference between "boyfriend", "better half", "SO", etc.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/1/2008 4:50:45 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/2/2008 7:41:41 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And it is i who limits communication for concern of being misunderstood..


This, in a nutshell, is where I believe you are going wrong. If you are communicating and are misunderstood, that is the opportunity to communicate some more until there is an understanding of what you are trying to say.

If you withhold communication, for fear of being understood, there is NO chance of being understood.

This is one of the first things I taught my slave, that she was required to speak her thoughts to me, good, bad of otherwise. But, and this is a big BUT, I also assured her that she would never be punished for saying her thoughts to me; I would never hold anything she said against her. Through time she learned to trust that I really meant it; that I am a man of my word.

It can sometimes make for some uncomfortable discussions, but we talk through them together and in the end our bond is stronger for having done so.

Do you have the trust yet that your Master will not judge you for what you say? (And vice versa, of course!) If so, you need to open up to him. If you are not sure that level of trust is there, you need to respectfully talk to him about that immediately.

If there is not trust that both parties can communicate openly and honestly at all times, that is a relationship that is not likely to survive.

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You teach best what you have lived.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/2/2008 11:20:49 AM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline 		i don't think the label matters too much; what's more important is that you find yrself saying 'yes' without reflecting on whether you really feel comfortable with what yr being asked to do.  To me this is a form of dishonesty, particularly when push comes to shove and you are forced to admit you can't go through with it and should've said no to begin with.
 
New relationships are heady stuff; you need to make an effort to stay in touch with yr own feelings and grow with Him as yrself, not as some fraud you'll never be able to keep up.
 
pinksugarsub

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/2/2008 2:41:37 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

How do you know?


Submissives are fatter than slaves.

nonononononononono

"slaves slice more thinly that submissives ..."

the whole slaves are thinner than submissives thing came from a misprint in the 2004 re-print of the UberDomliness and The One Twue Way Manual

didn't you get the memo?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/2/2008 4:59:07 PM   
simplyfyre


Posts: 54
Status: offline 		fr~

I always thought of it in terms of  'how much control of myself/my life' am I willing to give away.
It always come down to how much do I trust Him 

Fyre

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I know of no language in which the truth may be spoken. The truth can be seen, and felt, and known, but I do not think it may be spoken. Each of us learns it, but none of us, I think, can tell another what it is. 8 145



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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/2/2008 5:24:41 PM   
mypet37


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic


Do you have the trust yet that your Master will not judge you for what you say? (And vice versa, of course!)


I trust him implicitly. It is that child part of me that i have to mend...i do not think he will judge me at all, in fact He has never done so. i am being way to cautious.

for the record, He and i have opened this conversation. i was glad. He was as i expected, eager to listen, and pleasantly responsive.

wrong or right, i had to move through that portal myself.  i can move on now.

Part of letting in, is letting go.

< Message edited by mypet37 -- 6/2/2008 5:26:17 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/4/2008 4:23:43 AM   
trusting


Posts: 144
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		thank You for the laugh!


< Message edited by trusting -- 6/4/2008 4:27:23 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 1:05:12 PM   
mypet37


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		i want to thank those who took the time to offer genuine and sincere advice..... perhaps my journey is a joke to some of you, good luck with those.
we have worked things out and are now stronger than ever. my question has been put to rest. i must add that i do have an incredible Master.

(in reply to trusting)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 1:27:20 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		mypet, my questions to you are:
  1. Do you have this fiersly burning fire in your belly which drives you to do all you can to be pleasing to your Master?
  2. Is pleasing him the main focus of your being?
If you can answer yes then under my definition of a slave, you are so close to being one it only takes you to accept that and fully submit (including your safe word so he knows when you have reached your linits) to him body and soul. Now i know this will raise the ire of some here but I still see such things from a Gorean aspect and when i train a slave I do so to bring her to the same standard of service and submission as I used to when I was a part of the Gorean lifestyle.. Whilst many of my ilk find that safe words un-necessary, I prefer then at least in the early stages untill a slave and I have bonded sufficiently that I know her limits and usually make them mine too. From my perspective, I'd want you in good condition physically, mentally and psychologically and would be most displeasesd if you were to allow yourself to be in harm's way because you just wanted to please. If and I do say If your current relationship develops as it could, then in time your Master will know you better than you know yourself and safe words whilst still may be in place, need not be used because even though your limits may be being tested or expanded, you will be deliberately kept safe.... Again this is his choice not yours.  Talk to the man and explain whet you feel and allow him to guide you. he will refer to you as he will and that too is as it should be.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


(in reply to mypet37)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 2:14:53 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mypet37

How do you know?
i have followed my master as a submissive -but more and more the tendacy is towards slave, He has referred to me as both. He calls me his pet. i am finding it more difficult to simply interract with Him, simply obey.

ALL i want to do is please Him, so much so that i have avoided using my safe word do that i do not disappoint Him (although he assures me it is ok to use if, if i need to) i very rarely have.

sorry for offending with my naivety...


I haven't read the other posts, but I can blindly say there will be a mix of "Not touching this one", "The difference is in definition, you have to decide for yourself", and some personal experiences.

My Pet, who I do call "My Pet" (which is what drew my attention to this post), and I have your exact same predicament. 

First and foremost, I understand the immense amount of effort expelled in using a safeword, for some people.  Your desire to please is so strong that it overcomes your desire for him to stop.  Without knowing more facts, you need to decide on that by yourself, but as an owner who has assured his pet "You can use the safeword anytime you please, and we'll stop and make sure everything's ok..." I can tell you it is in good heart.  I am willing to bet heavily he means it, just as I do.

You mentioned a slide from "being with" to obeying.  I have noticed that sometimes My Pet would prefer to obey than to be a playful pup, but she balanced the two nicely.  I can't keep a lifestyle of pain and spikes and latex and cumshots and begging and ropes and cages up 24/7.  Sometimes, I want to do something more vanilla with My Pet.  And that's ok because we said that's ok.

You only asked one question:  How do you know if you are slave or submissive?  The truth is that there is a sliding scale between the two.  Where you lie doesn't matter.  How you interact does.  Are you having problems with the transition between being Pet and slave?


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The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 4:08:09 PM   
LadyRainfire


Posts: 6040
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

How do you know?


Submissives are fatter than slaves.


   DC, you bad boy....... Don't even go there!


_____________________________

"Desire is an insatiable beast. Sample your strongest dreams, and you will only crave more." ~ Master

~ one half of "L&L"~

My current state of mind

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 5:13:53 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		On this site, which requires everyone to choose between 4 labels (submissive, slave, switch, or Dominant), i choose "slave" because that's closer to how my Master and i see me, even though, specifically, i am His owned erotic servant.  But, that isn't offered on the list.
 
joy
Owned erotic servant of Master David

(in reply to mypet37)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Submissive or Slave - 6/7/2008 6:05:04 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

The important thing to realize is this is a D/s relationshop and when you strip away the fancy terms and all the hype, you are still submitting to another's dominance. All the different labe;s or terms aren't as important as we tend to place too much importance on the labels then on the dynamics of our relationship. It doesn't matter if you are called submissive, slave, girl, pet, or playtoy, you are still your Master's sub.

When you just simply interact by obeying, you are just projecting what you think he wants instead of communicating what you're actually feeling, etc. As a submissive, part of opur responsibility is to be open, honest and truthfull in how we interact with our doms. Thds means we safeword when we need to, we need to express what we are feeling/how we are feeling and not give back what we assume they want to hear.

Usually when a person safewords, this indicates a limit of their tolerance, a Dom needs to know what his sub's limits are to accurately and safely determine if these tolerances are immovable or if they are flexible. Most find that in time their tolerances become broadened and the need to safeword becomes rarer or non existant.





Great words of advice!

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 40
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