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Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:02:26 PM

MzMoon

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

I'm curious about something. I've come across several profiles of dominant males looking for specifically for subs/slaves that have low or no self-esteem. I am a female switch, myself. And i know for me that it's important for me to be with someone that has a very strong sense of self esteem and self worth before they meet me and it should stay that way. And to be honest, I'm new to the life, so I'm just wondering...is self-esteem something that a sub/slave should NOT have?

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Peace,
MzMoon

Post #: 1

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:05:36 PM

BalletBob

Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

I don't know if I can help, but I think a Sub with low exteme, would be more vunerable to the Dom/Master, and maybe more submissive, if that makes any sense. Like cowling uner the Master's presence.

BalletBob

_____________________________

"I get my kicks above the Waistline, Sunshine"

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 2

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:11:41 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
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I'd say these men were masochists.

Let me tell you about people who lack self esteem. They may seem like an easy out for someone lazy to control-but in the long run they can become very much like a vampire attached to your neck.

They end up being extremely high maintanence,and draining of physical and emotional energy.

For someone to ask for one shows me that they are extremely lacking in practical experience with D/s.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/25/2005 9:14:42 PM >

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 3

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:15:41 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm curious about something. I've come across several profiles of dominant males looking for specifically for subs/slaves that have low or no self-esteem. I am a female switch, myself. And i know for me that it's important for me to be with someone that has a very strong sense of self esteem and self worth before they meet me and it should stay that way. And to be honest, I'm new to the life, so I'm just wondering...is self-esteem something that a sub/slave should NOT have?

I was once told by someone who trained slaves as a profession that the first thing you do is dehumanize them. Having a low-self esteem would make this easier I wuold think.

This is an article on self-esteem and while it does not directly relate to the situation presented, I would think it might provoke some thoughts.

http://sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CB565-F330-11BE-AD0683414B7F0000&chanID=sa008

D (owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 4

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:47:40 PM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMoon

I'm curious about something. I've come across several profiles of dominant males looking for specifically for subs/slaves that have low or no self-esteem. I am a female switch, myself. And i know for me that it's important for me to be with someone that has a very strong sense of self esteem and self worth before they meet me and it should stay that way. And to be honest, I'm new to the life, so I'm just wondering...is self-esteem something that a sub/slave should NOT have?

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Peace,
MzMoon

The are specifically REQUESTING someone like that? I must have missed that. I'm with JaT on this one. People with low self esteem are a lot of work because they constantly need reassurance that they are doing well.

Further, I think that seeking someone with low/no self esteem would be a big indicator of someone potentially (please remember I said potentially) dangerous. Someone with low/no self esteem is more vulnerable. Easily led to believe that no one would ever want them, that they are lucky to be where they are, etc. That is a key indicator for an abusive partner, and what prevents most abuse victims from being able to leave, by being psychologically "brainwashed" into thinking they are powerless to do anything.

In answer to your question...NO, low/no self esteem isn't something that should be lacking in a slave/sub.

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 5

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 9:53:16 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

The low self esteem ones also tend to be the explosive drama queen/victim sorts too. And they will turn on one in a heartbeat-not a very savory way to try and sleep at night.

Simply not worth it in the long run-they need a therapist-not a master.

And I agree,that the ones requesting them seem to be seeking a ready made abuse victim. Stay away-far away.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/25/2005 9:59:49 PM >

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 6

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 10:16:15 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

Ditto to everyone above. You can easily imagine why a dom would think they want someone with low/no self-esteem, but in any real relationship having somebody like that is very emotionally draining. For the short-term, it can be workable since there is an instant need to please, but it has nothing to do with them wanting to please the master in particular, which is what i find such a turn-off.

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 7

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 10:27:04 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

That's what I have found-you can get them to do almost anything you like......but in the long run,my oh my, how they make you pay for it.

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 8

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 10:45:36 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

quote:

I'm curious about something. I've come across several profiles of dominant males looking for specifically for subs/slaves that have low or no self-esteem. I am a female switch, myself. And i know for me that it's important for me to be with someone that has a very strong sense of self esteem and self worth before they meet me and it should stay that way. And to be honest, I'm new to the life, so I'm just wondering...is self-esteem something that a sub/slave should NOT have?

I was once told by someone who trained slaves as a profession that the first thing you do is dehumanize them. Having a low-self esteem would make this easier I wuold think.

This is an article on self-esteem and while it does not directly relate to the situation presented, I would think it might provoke some thoughts.

http://sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CB565-F330-11BE-AD0683414B7F0000&chanID=sa008

D (owner of j)

quote:

I was once told by someone who trained slaves as a profession that the first thing you do is dehumanize them. Having a low-self esteem would make this easier I wuold think.

This is an article on self-esteem and while it does not directly relate to the situation presented, I would think it might provoke some thoughts.

i heard that too

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 9

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 10:48:55 PM

OscarHargraves

Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

Simply sounds to me like they want somebody they can 'Top'. If they aren't comfortable with who they are and confident in their own abilities then this kind of Sub would be the ONLY person they could Top.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 10

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 11:12:36 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

Low self esteem dom seeks low self esteem sub?

Together,they can bask in thier mutual insecurities!

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/25/2005 11:13:27 PM >

(in reply to OscarHargraves)

Post #: 11

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 11:33:30 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I'd say these men were masochists.

Let me tell you about people who lack self esteem. They may seem like an easy out for someone lazy to control-but in the long run they can become very much like a vampire attached to your neck.

They end up being extremely high maintanence,and draining of physical and emotional energy.

For someone to ask for one shows me that they are extremely lacking in practical experience with D/s.

This is not what I have found all the time. There are a minority who do go to each end of the scale here. Some indeed are as JaT has stated, and there are at the other end people who with some care and help start to develop their self esteem.. This is something I have had years of experience dealing with both as a professional counsellor but as a professional therapist.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 12

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 11:40:17 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

The problem being,these people seek out an amateur,not a professional.

Train wreck,waiting to derail.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 13

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 11:54:32 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

My bloody oath they do mate. It is these same amatures who make matters worse, and in some cases add years to the rebuilding of the patient's self esteem.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 14

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/25/2005 11:56:28 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

This is why I always get a bit bent at the amatuer shrinks out there.

Get a grip on your toppy egos people. Having a knight in shining armour fixation does NOT qualify you to fix someone else's head.

Leave it to the pros.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 15

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/26/2005 1:28:22 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Leave it to the pros.

Quickie question, was that Leave it to the professional (Shrinks) or Leave it to the prostitutes??????????

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 16

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/26/2005 3:23:38 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

Let me tell you about people who lack self esteem. They may seem like an easy out for someone lazy to control-but in the long run they can become very much like a vampire attached to your neck.

My oh my that is so true. Been there, done that. They become so needy that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy - they pester and pester and are passive aggressive...I call it being the "black hole of need" where it's an aura they wear. There's no where to go but down from there, and from my POV, there's nothing for me to do but walk away.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 17

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/26/2005 3:25:52 AM

merrymasochist

Posts: 156
Joined: 9/2/2004
Status: offline

Too many seek BDSM as the cure-all for their problems, like it's some magic wand to be waved over their lives and suddenly everything will be made clear and their lives will become perfect.
~wry smile~
And we've all seen the results when it's discovered there's no magic wand, and instead, just a lot of hard work. Like JustaTop stated, "it's a train wreck waiting to happen."

From a dominant's point of view, I guess I can where a person with low self esteem would be easier to dominate and control from the start, but most people with self-esteem issues have an underscore scream of "fix me and my life," when the truth of the matter is no one can "fix" another person, they have to fix themselves and want to fix themselves. From what I've seen, those with serious self esteem issues tend want that non-existant magic wand and run for the hills when it's discovered that actual effort on their part is involved.

From my own point of view, I can't imagine offering myself with the idea that I'm worthless and have no value. If I'm worthless and have no value, just what the heck am I offering to a dominant? A mess to be fixed? If I have no pride or sense of self-worth in myself, how could I recognize and find pride in my Dom? It's always seemed to me I should be offerening a Dom my strengths and talents that will enhance his life, not a basket of problems and issues that I expect him to fix. My strengths, talents and value become his and if an issue or problem does occur, I should be capable of asking for help and then working to resolve with him rather than looking to him to be my cure-all.

As for dominants actually seeking out low self-esteem as a desirable trait? Again, JustaTop nails it - "Low self esteem dom seeks low self esteem sub? Together,they can bask in thier mutual insecurities!" If I have to be a weak, worthless mess for someone to be able to dominate me, I think that makes a statement about the dominant themselves.

Thank you for the interesting question MzMoon.

Sincerely,

merry

_____________________________

"What hath night to do with sleep?"
J. Milton

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 18

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/26/2005 3:30:59 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I'm curious how many people get into BDSM not as a cure all but to justify a natural urge or two ot three.....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to merrymasochist)

Post #: 19

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/26/2005 3:44:25 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

when i topped i preferred strong men(no not all muscles,lol).

one would think that having low self esttem would make it harder for a master.
how could they even leave the poor thing alone for a business trip and not worry about what they would come home too?or good heavens,the girl feeling abandoned or something similar.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to MzMoon)

Post #: 20

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