RE: Self-Esteem

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Self-Esteem

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Self-Esteem

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 11:44:28 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think the thread has gotten away from the original question again which was about a person purposely looking for someone with low or no self-esteem.

My comments at least were about the group searching not about anyone who might have low or no self-esteem.

Hehe... we do tend to wander with our topics, don't we.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Profile

Post #: 61

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 11:46:43 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think the thread has gotten away from the original question again which was about a person purposely looking for someone with low or no self-esteem.

My comments at least were about the group searching not about anyone who might have low or no self-esteem.

Hehe... we do tend to wander with our topics, don't we.

I've noticed and it happens far faster than I can keep up which is entirely my responsbility of course.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Padriag)

Profile

Post #: 62

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 11:47:20 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Its not feasible or practical to treat a group as a group of individuals... what you end up with is lots of individuals in the same room and no group. We speak of groups in general terms because they are useful points of references, no more and no less.

Extremely well said.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Padriag)

Profile

Post #: 63

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 12:07:31 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

Now, these are all amazingly broad generalizations. Even if you were to date one-hundred people with low self-esteem, that sample groups would still be so small, that it would be statistically meaningless.

Again, no offense to anyone intended, but I think people would be well served to place everyone they meet, in a category of one. My name is Caitlyn, and I struggle at times with low self-esteem. That is the only group I fit in to ... the one with me and the things I have to deal with.

If someone were to enter a relationship with me, and came in with any of the pre-conceived notions stated above, they will probably end up finding exactly what they have gone so far out of their way to look for ... and they will find it, even if it doesn't exist. They will find it because they are entering into a relationship with one person, based on all the baggage they accumulated from relationships form others.

caitlyn

Dear caitlyn...you are correct. i assure you that when i speak to a man my own age (i am 52) there is baggage on both sides, and self-esteem is fixed well in some places, and running low in others. What makes it possible to form a bond at my age is at least:

(1) Accepting full responsibility for one's own baggage. A new relationship, no matter how thrilling, will not ease all the pain the heart has felt before.

(2) An ability to see a new Man as an individual, who may or may not be trustworthy; but not imposing all the trust issues you have accumulated onto Him as if He had to jump through hoops and having done so, would ease your pain from past betrayals.

People my age who can do both those things can come together...maybe like two porcupines, but still they can get close. In my opinion, few people (of any age) accept full responsibility for their own baggage and seek a relationship in which a drama can be acted out and a different result obtained, believing that will somehow change any past hurts.

No one can "fix" you but yourself...and with the help of a good therapist you CAN move past tremendous obstacles...but it will always be YOUR responsibility to be ready, willing and able to form a bond.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/28/2005 3:56:37 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to caitlyn)

Profile

Post #: 64

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 12:28:59 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

People my age who can do both those things can come together...maybe like two porcupines, but still they can get close.

pinkpleasures

and once again Pink, I've spit all over the computer screen laughing at your Humorous but Wise Wisdom.

Q ... the other old Broad whos trying hard to comb down the prickers

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Profile

Post #: 65

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 1:16:17 PM

wipmebeetme100

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I don't know if I can help, but I think a Sub with low exteme, would be more vunerable to the Dom/Master, and maybe more submissive, if that makes any sense. Like cowling uner the Master's presence.

Don't know about that. I think a slave with high self esteem, is making more of a conscious effort when submitting. It is a decision, a choice. Not so much with a slave who has no or low self esteem. This is nothing that i know for sure....it just sort of makes sense to me.

cathy

_____________________________

Happiness is like peeing your pants: Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth
~Unknown

(in reply to BalletBob)

Profile

Post #: 66

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 2:13:47 PM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline

Just our 2bobs worth on the main subject but to take on a sub/slave with no or low self esteem in many housholds would be one hell of a heap of trouble we feel,in that if you as the Dom had come home from work after faceing the public telling you what a prick of a life they have or what mongerls their kids or neighbours are etc,etc,etc maybe one or two lively happy ones with great self esteem and joy when you talk to them.
Then through the door to be greeted with "I am just useless not worht your effort with me just should kill my self and save everyone the trouble of me bing on this mortal coil" surly facing that each day or every 2 to 3 days would get on many peoples goats and make them consider the relationship at all angles.
But to other households pulling that person away from their low self esteem may be what they feel is their calling as a Dom and would only approach ones who have that stated in their profileand as stated by others here some Doms go for the low esteem ones because that is all they will get.
We both would fit in the top section of our thoughts.

(in reply to wipmebeetme100)

Profile

Post #: 67

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 5:52:08 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Generally, when I meet people for the first time, and especially if we are thinking about some sort of relationship, I start off with the base assumption that they may have some esteem problems in one for or another or may be dealing with issues from another relationship/family or something of that sort. What i do look for is their interaction with myself and my houshold (Malamute included) If their issues become evident and are likely to become a problem, I do not void the person but rather keep things on a friendly level whilst not allowing them in closer till I have the time or ability to both help them as a person and to ensure that their problems will not negatively impact on my family as a whole. I know it sounds callus but the protection of the family/household as a unit is my primary responsibility. (Made too many mistakes and we have all paid for it in the past). I have found it necessary to keep those who appear to enjoy the dram which their problems cause well serarated from the family unit and in the worst case senario, to avoid that person. People who are ready to try to resolve their personal issues will never be turned from my door.

As for deliberately seeking those with low self esteem, I guess in one form, I've been guilty of that in as much as i've run clinics for these suffers. However I'm not a knigt errant and frankly have more than enough to do with those who seek help dfrom me than to ride about on a white charger trying to save all and sundry. (The immage of a grizzly riding a horse is some what disturbing in any case

)

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MissDiandSirHugh)

Profile

Post #: 68

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/27/2005 9:47:20 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

and once again Pink, I've spit all over the computer screen laughing at your Humorous but Wise Wisdom.

Quivver ... the other old Broad whos trying hard to comb down the prickers

Stop spitting; everyone knows you should blow soda out your nose...LMAO.

pinkpleasures

_____________________________

(in reply to Quivver)

Profile

Post #: 69

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 3:59:33 AM

ButsuDom

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/7/2005
Status: offline

An absolutely marvelous topic. My thanks to all who posted. I think it's all been covered from one end of the spectrum to the other quite aptly. Water tends to seek it's own level. For those who would prey on the weak, weakness is their nature. For those who would have compassion to teach the willing and console the suffering let compassion and honor be their reward. We are all mirrors of each other. We draw to us those who would help us learn the lesson at hand.

Namaste,

ButsuDom

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Profile

Post #: 70

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 2:57:18 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

This is what i have been taught: that whilst struggling with depression, our thoughts are not reliable -- they do not reflect reality. And to help yourself heal, you must DO things which you wish to avoid; like get dressed and leave the house. And the eventually, the new behaviors affect the thought process and the depression will begin to lift.

i am not saying psycotropic drugs have no place, but i think few people with script authority here in the US have put in the time and energy to really use them in a talented way. Misuse of such drugs can exasperate the problem..especially as the individual under treatment makes no changes apart from taking the drugs and waits for them to work magic.

For the record i am NOT saying people with depression should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"; such attitudes can discourage people from seeking help and recovering.

With or without drugs, a person caught in clinical depresssion needs talk therapy from a talented professional; and that therapist will likely recommend a change in behavior.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/29/2005 3:22:45 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to IronBear)

Profile

Post #: 71

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 3:07:12 PM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

This is why I always get a bit bent at the amatuer shrinks out there.

Get a grip on your toppy egos people. Having a knight in shining armour fixation does NOT qualify you to fix someone else's head.

Leave it to the pros.

It's not even really a question of competence or qualification, really. When you're in a relationship with someone, you have an investment in the outcome, as well as expectations about life in the present. A therapist, whatever other failings they might have (and they often have plenty), doesn't expect anything from the patient but, really, being paid. Besides helping them to a more objective perspective, they don't have to get involved in actually making anything happen on a day to day basis. I doubt, really, that professional therapists would be a whole lot better at fixing their mates than amateurs are.

_____________________________

Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to JustaTop)

Profile

Post #: 72

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 6:51:01 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

This is why I always get a bit bent at the amatuer shrinks out there.

Get a grip on your toppy egos people. Having a knight in shining armour fixation does NOT qualify you to fix someone else's head.

Leave it to the pros.

It's not even really a question of competence or qualification, really. When you're in a relationship with someone, you have an investment in the outcome, as well as expectations about life in the present. A therapist, whatever other failings they might have (and they often have plenty), doesn't expect anything from the patient but, really, being paid. Besides helping them to a more objective perspective, they don't have to get involved in actually making anything happen on a day to day basis. I doubt, really, that professional therapists would be a whole lot better at fixing their mates than amateurs are.

G'day Cane,

I'm going to both agree and disagree with you here. I have to asume that you are judging this from what you know of the US counselling/therapist arena. If i'm right there, you are probably dead correct as a generalisation, however there are professionals who do approach things diferently. As an example, in most cases, my relationship with my counselling clients is based on my being their coach and together we devise a game plan which they are happy to follow with goal setting as a priority and the targeted result is to either resolve the specific issues or develop and practice techniques whereby the client is able to deal with either an on going or future similar situations. In such cases I will usually be working closely with the client who is just as likely going to call me as they need to between appointments as support. If I'm using hypnotherapy however, we are attacking a problem from a different direction and again it often involves counselling sessions as well. the professionals I associate with generally have a better chance of helping that an untrained lay person. having said that, I'd be a fool if I didn't involve the client's partner in the process as well. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems at first.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Profile

Post #: 73

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 7:56:46 PM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

My point isn't about the value of partner involvement, or the abilities of professional therapists, it's about the way personal investment interferes with the therapeutic process. If we make a rough distinction between disorders whose treatment is largely dependent on altering brain chemistry and those that belong to the behavioral/cognitive realm, the latter inevitably are seriously entangled with the subject's personal relationships- or few would be seeking therapy. There's an extra set of difficulties in attempting to work with issues that, one way or another, arise out of the subject's past, while engaged in an intimate interpersonal relationship with them and creating new issues, or new versions of old issues, in the process. In practical terms, there is a conflict of interest between the partner-as-therapist and the partner-as-partner. Part of the power of a professional therapist derives from his detachment and objectivity, something very difficult to maintain with an intimate partner, regardless training.

_____________________________

Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to IronBear)

Profile

Post #: 74

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/28/2005 10:45:44 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Of course. I certainly can't disagree there. It becomes a definate juggling act trying to help with disorders and at the same time help those involved achieve their goals. At times one appears to opose the other. In the final analysis we can only do what we can.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Profile

Post #: 75

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/29/2005 3:31:25 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

It's not even really a question of competence or qualification, really. When you're in a relationship with someone, you have an investment in the outcome, as well as expectations about life in the present. A therapist, whatever other failings they might have (and they often have plenty), doesn't expect anything from the patient but, really, being paid. Besides helping them to a more objective perspective, they don't have to get involved in actually making anything happen on a day to day basis. I doubt, really, that professional therapists would be a whole lot better at fixing their mates than amateurs are.

CitizenCane[/quote}

i concur Sir that there are some untalented professionals in the mental health field, and i also concur that the guidance of a Dom or Master, requiring the sufferer to complete tasks, would be helpful. However, clincial depression is a true mental illness and requires professional care. Some people cannot fully recover with the aid of meds; and others need monitoring and talk therapy. There certainly is a place for a compassionate and knowledgable Dom or Master for support, but the sufferer does need professional help.

Equally true is that Men are vunerable to clinical depression as well; and since a subbie or slave generally cannot dictate to her Dom or Master, in this situation, the woman has an obligation to get her Man into the therapist's office. Clinical depression will generally not pass offf on its own, and carries a risk of suicide; not to mention time lost from one's life living in the dark.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/29/2005 4:19:29 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Profile

Post #: 76

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/29/2005 3:50:38 AM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

We need to take the common sense approach to whether a Dom can help a sub with low self esteem. It is all about the extent of the problem. I imagine clinical psychologists and psychiatrists have this same discussion. Is it bad enough that it requires a psychiatrist or can a psychologist manage the problem with counseling?

Not everyone with a self-esteem issue needs professional help. The labeling, itself, could be debated. Is it really a self-esteem problem, lack of social skills or maybe, only, shyness? In our society, it is almost at the point where everyone tells everyone else that they need professional help. It is now the classic dig to say, "You need professional help."

I think a reasonable person can tell who needs professional help and who can be encouraged using a role as a friend, lover or Dom. Of course, in my world, it is overkill to run to the doctor if I have a cold.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Profile

Post #: 77

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/29/2005 4:30:55 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

We need to take the common sense approach to whether a Dom can help a sub with low self esteem. It is all about the extent of the problem. I imagine clinical psychologists and psychiatrists have this same discussion. Is it bad enough that it requires a psychiatrist or can a psychologist manage the problem with counseling?

Not everyone with a self-esteem issue needs professional help. The labeling, itself, could be debated. Is it really a self-esteem problem, lack of social skills or maybe, only, shyness? In our society, it is almost at the point where everyone tells everyone else that they need professional help. It is now the classic dig to say, "You need professional help."

I think a reasonable person can tell who needs professional help and who can be encouraged using a role as a friend, lover or Dom. Of course, in my world, it is overkill to run to the doctor if I have a cold.

ExistentialSteel

1st, about the cold: i had a sinus infection while living in Tallahassee but i had had so many because i was allergic to mold and i was busy preparing a case, so i did not see the MD...and lost my sight for awhile. Eventually i regained some of it and can see ok with glasses, but will probably never get contact lenses again. Obviously this does not mean everyone should run off the the MD, but if you have a bacterial infection you should, for the necessary anti-biotics.

2nd, there is no hard and fast rule as to whom should seek therapy. i think some people just go to massage their egos; they make no changes as recommended by their therapists and generally just want to vent for $90/hr.

i also concur that shyness is not a mental illness, just something that a compassionate Man needs to work on with His woman.

For me, the acid test of whether to seek counseling is: are there events from your past which affect your daily living which you want to deal with; patterns of conduct you wish to change; or are you seriously mentally ill, such as schizophrenia. If one of these speaks to you, then by all means, seek therapy. Life is short; why allow something from your past to screw things up for you?

That said, be selective about your therapist; he/she should be accepting (if not knowledgable) about BDSM; and you should feel a sense of trust. If not, try another one. There are bad -- good -- best therapists out there, just as in any professsion, and there also needs to be a "fit" btw the therapist and the client.

i have spoken before about federally-funded county mental health boards which charge on a sliding scale; anyone wanting more information is free to email me.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/30/2005 2:09:22 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)

Profile

Post #: 78

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/29/2005 5:41:18 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

If we seperate esteem issues from depression which is all to often present as well and in fact may be caused by a lack of self esteem, we still have a large field in which to work. One of the first things I like to isolate is the primary reason or cause of the lack of esteem. It may not be the result of a dysfunctional family and could, for exampl,e, be the resuly of a very dominant father who may take the traditional role of making decisions for the family and unknowingly fails to provide the necessary in home training for the children on how to manage their affairs such as home budgeting and bill paying etc so that the young adult flies the nest, they are un prepared for the realities of beinfg self sufficient and thus may feel unworthy when comparing them selves with their friends or peers. I'm using this example because it is infact based very closely on one of my ongoing cases. My client was so lackingf in self esteem that on five seperate occasions she attempted suicide which was on each occasion nipped at the bud before she was in any real risk.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Profile

Post #: 79

RE: Self-Esteem - 10/29/2005 12:16:29 PM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

It sounds as if most of us are on the same page about this thing.

One point I will make is that everyone takes the view that this is only about subs with low self-esteem. It could also work that the Dom is the one with the problem. Low self-esteem is probably as common for Doms as it is for subs. Whether a sub should try with such a Dom is germane to the OP too, in my opinion. Would she think she could help the Dom? Anyway, it is another view.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Profile

Post #: 80