RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:23:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Perhaps you can open your mind to the extent of finding links to where I've said any of these things you keep putting in my mouth?


Your quotes:  i am to inept to link them:

I'm saying to ignore things that are clearly fabricated lies, no matter who they are about. 

And do you have any of these 'divisive comments' that aren't spin jobs?

Why won't you stand still and answer the question about the government infecting black people? How was Wright incorrect about his comments on that?  How was Wright (and MLK Jr), incorrect in his comments about God's disapproval of what America has done to minorities and others around the world? 

 
   Obama is closer to being a member of the "government" than i am.  The comments that attributed to his advisors show in inclination towards vengeance and retribution, not so much correction.  i consider my responsibility to try and put the most effective person to minimize, and hopefully eliminate abuses. Not to replace one set of abusive folk with another, nor to simply change the roster of "victims".  Strangely enough, Mr Obama's promise of "Change" does not eliminate that as a possibility.




So your asking me to defend saying you were responsible for slavery, etc was what?  BS?
So far your responses read like a poor imitation of high school debate tactics from a losing side.... straw arguments and all.


Once more, if you find anyone who enjoys swallowing all that, more power to you, and to them.

But it isn't in my diet.




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:28:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Didn't think so.[8|]


Difficult and devastating as it might be to believe, i don't really live on the computer, nor do i really commit your rants, or their locations to memory.




Alumbrado -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:30:44 PM)

And that makes fabricating things and pretending I said them, or ignoring posted facts and repeating hate mongering lies OK, exactly how?





DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:34:22 PM)

Hmmmm I wonder why Jerimiah Wright isnt going apeshit about MKUltra? You know where the CIA ran whorehouses and then dosed the unsuspecting patrons with various hallucinegenic drugs in an attempt to develop a chemical agent for mind control / psychomanipulation? Oh thats right - the victims in that experiment were white middle class married businessmen who certainly were in no condition to complain???? (HONEY! I WENT TO A WHOREHOUSE AND THE CIA DID MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS ON ME WITH PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS!!!) Not the folks Jerimiah likes very much...




Alumbrado -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:38:51 PM)

You've failed to prove he went apeshit about any of them. 

In point of fact, when asked about the potential for our government to deliberately infect its own citizens, he gave exactly the same answer you've given...'they already have'.

As in his quoting the person who actually said the 'chickens have come home to roost' line, why is it only wrong when a black man repeats it?




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 8:54:49 PM)

       My apologies if you take it that way.  i have been looking for a reason to like Mr. Obama.  i was not looking for people to defend him, or to minmize and explain away his associations.
      i will also admit that  i have been looking for a way not to see some threat in the fact that (and i hate to say it) i as a white person am in some way responsible for any or all injustices that have been inflicted on any or all minorities.  i find this to be as ridiculous as if i was to hold all minorities responsible for (hypothetically) being denied employment based on affirmative action, getting mugged by a minority individual, or being fired for racist remarks when the specific words used were "Niggling little details".  If that expression makes you wonder, look it up.
      All of these things being said, i want to like this guy.  Give me a reason, please. Change does not, by definition, include improvement.  Everyone can find a reason to have a chip on their shoulder, or be resentful.  What one does from there is important.




TheHeretic -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 9:38:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

You've forfeited the right to demand links for fabricated claims I never made.



      I forfeit nothing, Alum.  I've been asking (quite nicely, I think) for you to point me back to where you've posted these things you keep referring to.  I was specifically looking for something regarding the "lies" you've referenced about Pastor Wright, but for all build-up and secrecy, I'm thinking your argument has as much substance as one of Barry's speeches.

       I can certainly understand that you don't wish to repeat yourself, or duplicate work when the conversation has progressed, but asking for a link to this fabled list of links doesn't seem too much to ask.

       Gimme a hint.  Do they say that Obama isn't a follower of the Islamic faith?  Duh.  Or is it the Snopes that confirms the picture of him cradling his balls instead of putting his hand over his heart for the national anthem is true? 

       Is your answer to the very legitimate questions about his qualifications to just keep repeating that the ridiculous assertions are ridiculous?

       Show me something.




DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 9:50:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
     All of these things being said, i want to like this guy.  Give me a reason, please.

Read his book. If that doesn't convince you, I'm guessing nothing will.




pinksugarsub -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/2/2008 11:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

      My apologies if you take it that way.  i have been looking for a reason to like Mr. Obama.  i was not looking for people to defend him, or to minmize and explain away his associations.
     i will also admit that  i have been looking for a way not to see some threat in the fact that (and i hate to say it) i as a white person am in some way responsible for any or all injustices that have been inflicted on any or all minorities.  i find this to be as ridiculous as if i was to hold all minorities responsible for (hypothetically) being denied employment based on affirmative action, getting mugged by a minority individual, or being fired for racist remarks when the specific words used were "Niggling little details".  If that expression makes you wonder, look it up.
     All of these things being said, i want to like this guy.  Give me a reason, please. Change does not, by definition, include improvement.  Everyone can find a reason to have a chip on their shoulder, or be resentful.  What one does from there is important.


Well, i'm guessing in the tension between a white woman and an African-American Man, race turns out to be paramount.  i don't know whether to be happy feminity is not the handicap it once was, or sad that race is still the barrier it has always been.
 
pnksugarsub




Irishknight -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 6:22:32 AM)

You got fired for say "niggling little details?"  Someone needs some prozac.

Honestly, I think that many are playing the race card to make it seem worse.  If whites think he is antiwhite, they'll get defensive and shift to Billary.  It is a plan on the part of someone who thinks she "deserves" to be president.   It is the way of the Clinton political machine to use anything relevant or irrelevant to attempt to destroy their opponents.
It is sad that many are starting to fall for it.  I may not think Obama is the best candidate we coulld pick but he is far better than his opponent.




cloudboy -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 8:21:23 AM)

quote:

i as a white person am in some way responsible for any or all injustices that have been inflicted on any or all minorities. i find this to be as ridiculous as if i was to hold all minorities responsible for (hypothetically) being denied employment based on affirmative action, getting mugged by a minority individual, or being fired for racist remarks when the specific words used were "Niggling little details".


Sounds to me that where Obama is concerned, you are projecting. His main aim as a candidate is to eliminate damaging partisan politics in Washington and to create an atmosphere of honest debate and bipartisan cooperation.

McCain is actually somewhat the same in this regard.

The upcoming election offers America one sure thing: A LEADERSHIP UPGRADE.





FirmhandKY -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 10:00:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

You've forfeited the right to demand links for fabricated claims I never made.



      I forfeit nothing, Alum.  I've been asking (quite nicely, I think) for you to point me back to where you've posted these things you keep referring to.  I was specifically looking for something regarding the "lies" you've referenced about Pastor Wright, but for all build-up and secrecy, I'm thinking your argument has as much substance as one of Barry's speeches.

       I can certainly understand that you don't wish to repeat yourself, or duplicate work when the conversation has progressed, but asking for a link to this fabled list of links doesn't seem too much to ask.

       Gimme a hint.  Do they say that Obama isn't a follower of the Islamic faith?  Duh.  Or is it the Snopes that confirms the picture of him cradling his balls instead of putting his hand over his heart for the national anthem is true? 

       Is your answer to the very legitimate questions about his qualifications to just keep repeating that the ridiculous assertions are ridiculous?

       Show me something.


Have I forfeited my rights to see the links he made to debunk the Obama mis-characterizations?

How 'bout it Alumbrado?

Firm




celticlord2112 -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 10:23:08 AM)

quote:

His main aim as a candidate is to eliminate damaging partisan politics in Washington and to create an atmosphere of honest debate and bipartisan cooperation.

His main aim as a candidate is to get elected.




atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 11:14:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

You got fired for say "niggling little details?"  Someone needs some prozac.

Honestly, I think that many are playing the race card to make it seem worse.  If whites think he is antiwhite, they'll get defensive and shift to Billary.  It is a plan on the part of someone who thinks she "deserves" to be president.   It is the way of the Clinton political machine to use anything relevant or irrelevant to attempt to destroy their opponents.
It is sad that many are starting to fall for it.  I may not think Obama is the best candidate we coulld pick but he is far better than his opponent.


     i imagine prozac might have been a solution.  there was no way to talk my way out of this without making the person responsible for my company's contract look like a fool.  Rather than make an issue of it, i apologized and moved on.
      i do not blame Obama for the comments made.  i do, vaguely, recall a poem which explains that if a child lives with hate, the child learns to hate.  Mr Obama has claimed an affiliation with this church and the group of Reverends for 20 years.  I will admit that while i slept through a lot of sermons over the same period, i can still spout catholic doctrine, and believe quite a bit of it.  Although i left the church because a fellow who appeared to be an elitist would introduce his fellow chaplains with a "He is a good man, but (almost a whisper) he is not of our faith."  Even though i might denounce that individual, i still hold on to things that i have been taught. 
       While i will admit that in history those in power have taken advantage of those not in power.  This has run along socio-economic lines, as well as racial, gender or religious lines.  One can dwell on past injustices, or swear not to repeat them, and move on.  The chill which struck me in this regard is that Father Flegler addressed a congregation and said that this was the same as asking a rape victim to move on.  That did not sound like an effort to heal, but to keep picking at a scab. 
        Was Mr Obama ignorant of Father Flegler's views?  Having earmarked a large sum (i believe it was in the neighborhood of 200,000 dollars) for one of Father Flegler's Ministries, then if he was ignorant of the Father's stance, then he is fiscally irresponsible for not having investigated.
          i don't hate anyone, i do not judge anyone by the color of their skin, their  religion, their gender or their orientations.  i consider that none of that has any influence on my life until/unless i am asked to be a part of it.  i will ignore all of that in either direction.  It does not give anyone a free pass, or an entitlement.  i am  equally deterred by someone displaying an elitist attitude, i find that to be more insidious than racism.
          i have been through my personal struggle with the racism issue over 40 years ago (most notably, i changed my phonetic spelling from  "b as in boy" to "b as in Boston").  What more does anyone want.  Is there a way that a bill can be set up, that can ultimately be marked "Paid in Full"?
           A way to repair, and say "okay, we're even" would impress me.




popeye1250 -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 11:29:59 AM)

I certainly hope Obama has the nomination locked up.
And I would imagine most Republicans do as well.
Hillary's really going to be pissed when he loses by a landslide in November!
("See! See! I told you so!")
She's taken many of the "big states" and he hasn't.
The Democrats are doing it to themselves again!
Pick the *"most liberal candidate"* and run them!
And Obama supports "comprehensive immigration reform" read Amnesty for Illegal Aliens.
Oh sure that's a winning issue!
Be "for" something that more than 90% of the American People are against! lol
And he's good at speaking for an hour and saying absolutely nothing!
No-one and I mean No-one can lose elections better than Democrats!






Sanity -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 12:17:40 PM)


So he's a uniter, not a divider. [sm=doh.gif]




quote:

Sounds to me that where Obama is concerned, you are projecting. His main aim as a candidate is to eliminate damaging partisan politics in Washington and to create an atmosphere of honest debate and bipartisan cooperation.




orfunboi -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 12:23:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

In a rather complicated and confusing decision, the Democratic Natl Cmt has agreed to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida, but only give each a half vote.  According to the news story,  this puts Obama too far ahead of Clinton and the outcome is now a lock.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080601/pl_bloomberg/aqzs8bepqh00;_ylt=Ag.2lLi7L_d.BW2m18yEuOJsnwcF
 
Man i sure hope he wins.  But i really don't wanna debate the merits of the candidates; i just wonder if people agree Obama has it in the bag.
 
pinksugarsub


Yea, so far I think he has it in the bag.

As to your wish that people don't use this to debate the candidate worth.....Your kidding right?

Not only will people use this to bash the other guy....they will use it to tell you what an asshat the current admin is.

You could start a thread about recipes for chicken and there are posters on here who will turn it into a political bashing. Not sure why, but their obsession can be almost scary.




orfunboi -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 12:29:18 PM)

I am not so sure she will be pissed. She has a much better shot at running again in 4 years if McCain gets it this year.




popeye1250 -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 2:40:30 PM)

LOL! It's on Yahoo News right now that Hillary would consider being Obama's running mate as V.P. so you *know* that if that goes down something is going to "happen" to Obama.
An "accident" perhaps?
Plane crash most likely.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/3/2008 2:45:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LOL! It's on Yahoo News right now that Hillary would consider being Obama's running mate as V.P. so you *know* that if that goes down something is going to "happen" to Obama.
An "accident" perhaps?
Plane crash most likely.

Nah, that's not obvious enough. Think Manchurian Candidate....




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