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RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 12:57:28 AM   
southernsubboy


Posts: 41
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		oh hell! this to me is not a big deal. I say simply this> Its a free country freedom of self expression freedom of speech whether racist or not should be allowed, i mean just look at obama's pastor there.  The Confederate Flag is part of southern culture whether anyone likes it or not, and some people choose to embrace it and others choose to disgrace it. Southerners are naturally rebelious, The South is the only part of the country now with indepent views, distinct culture, society, etc. A southern banker from atlanta can go to a roadhouse in the middle of the Arkansas Hills, and be just as comfortable because he knows hes still home... in the south. people say "im a southerner" not "im from Georgia" or im from Arkansas." Exterior cultures and entities are trying to homogenize the south and take away the culture and everything that makes it distinct. and that includes the confederate flag.... Hell, the people that complain about a rebel flag flying should go find those who fly nazi flags and complain to them. Hell HITLER used more slave labor during his regime than all southern americans combined. AND it was more recently. And the civil war wasnt over ONLY slavery, thats just one of the big things attached because it helped bring an END to slavery. Anyway /end rant.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 8:38:56 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

And again, you can be a writer without finishing college. Wanna know how I know? I was one. I don't care if you believe it or not, because the whole of my worth doesn't depend on if some schlub online believes me or not.


Sure you can.  Changing the letters on the Burger King sign would be writing technically. 

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 9:45:06 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		FR (for pedantic reasons)


it's not a union jack, it's a union flag. The union jack is only that when flown from a ship.

(we now return you to your usual programming)

(in reply to SubRefuge)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 11:20:03 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		When will everyone learn that the South lost?   I hate that flag, and I live in South Carolina where we used to fly it over the state capital.
Why do they want to bring that piece of junk to Florida.
I think it should be illegal for any government place of business to burn fly tha damn rebel flag.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 12:47:02 PM   
LDRandAstarte


Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline 		OK I know I've been silly (with my photoshops) so far in this thread, but now I will put in my two cents and then back to the sillification.

I find it funny that the ones who are most venomous against a simple flag, it only a flag for Barny's sake, are the same ones who would scream the loudest if their right to free speach or freedom of expression got stepped on.

I'm back quiet!


_____________________________

When I die, I want to go like my grandpa who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like the other three passengers in his car.

(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 12:49:59 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

OK I know I've been silly (with my photoshops) so far in this thread, but now I will put in my two cents and then back to the sillification.

I find it funny that the ones who are most venomous against a simple flag, it only a flag for Barny's sake, are the same ones who would scream the loudest if their right to free speach or freedom of expression got stepped on.

I'm back quiet!


Well said.

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 12:56:43 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

OK I know I've been silly (with my photoshops) so far in this thread, but now I will put in my two cents and then back to the sillification.

I find it funny that the ones who are most venomous against a simple flag, it only a flag for Barny's sake, are the same ones who would scream the loudest if their right to free speach or freedom of expression got stepped on.

I'm back quiet!


Well said.


amen....and id bet nearly each one of us on this site does something that many think should be illegal, and they find it offensive, and think it should be legal to shoot us on sight.

it is not illegal to offend someone......

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 2:44:53 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Sure you can.  Changing the letters on the Burger King sign would be writing technically. 


  Just keep telling yourself that.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 6/5/2008 3:08:23 PM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 288
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 2:51:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

OK I know I've been silly (with my photoshops) so far in this thread, but now I will put in my two cents and then back to the sillification.

I find it funny that the ones who are most venomous against a simple flag, it only a flag for Barny's sake, are the same ones who would scream the loudest if their right to free speach or freedom of expression got stepped on.

I'm back quiet!


Honestly I only care when someone trots out the claims that they're somehow honoring confederate soldiers or the CSA by flying/displaying that flag. Which since that flag didn't exist until the 20th century is flat out BS. I'm a descendant of both union and confederate veterans and have no problem with someone wanting to display the actual Stars and Bars or some other legitimate flag to honor the war dead but to fly that flag created solely as a symbol of institutionalized racism and claim you're doing it in honor of my ancestors? That offends me and I'm going to speak up. Ban the thing? No. Pay a single penny in taxes to fly that racist rag? Absolutely positively not.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/5/2008 2:53:06 PM >

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 3:17:27 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		interesting points Ken

i know wikipedia isnt known for being totally accurate-but this page seemed to be complete and showed many versions of what i consider to be the confederate flag.   the designs changed somewhat but almost all incorporated the x with the stars, which is the part seeming to piss so many off.  there is no pic on the op article that i could see....so my question is....would any version of this flag, with the x and stars, be acceptable to you?

im really trying to see the other side here........cause as a chickie from the shout, i honestly just do not get it.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 3:56:01 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
yeppers, they dont.. but you can't please everybody all of the time.

The upside is it has never been waved by the KKK at least. So there is a bounus!

if it has I would love that picture!


OK here you go!

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8333/kkkrainbowfb7.jpg


This is Soooooooo going on my blog this weekend! Holy shit batman. LOL

That is just bloody awesome!

Thank you so much Darlin'!

You made my week!

Gwyn


FYI it's a 2 min photoshop job I did when I read your post!


It is still bloody brilliant.. and I love ya for it! LOL

Muwaaaah!

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 3:59:55 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I probably would have tried for a "Hello Kitty" theme but it would have taken me days.  I suck at this kind of work.


That's a great idea!!!

Pink Triangles & Hello Kitty -> http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/4382/kkkrainbowpg1.jpg


I blew soda out my nose.. that so rocks! so now the KKK stands for Kinky Kitty Klub?

*snicker snicker snicker*

Gwyn,

Who actualy has kicked the ass of a KKK neonazi MF.

and before you ask.. yes it was just as satisfying as you can imagine.

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 4:17:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

interesting points Ken

i know wikipedia isnt known for being totally accurate-but this page seemed to be complete and showed many versions of what i consider to be the confederate flag.   the designs changed somewhat but almost all incorporated the x with the stars, which is the part seeming to piss so many off.  there is no pic on the op article that i could see....so my question is....would any version of this flag, with the x and stars, be acceptable to you?

im really trying to see the other side here........cause as a chickie from the shout, i honestly just do not get it.

I'd need the actual link to the page you're talking about to be sure but...

I'd be fine with displaying the historical Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia, think the "rebel" flag except square, or the real Stars and Bars, here or one of the real CSA flags shown below it.

I will never be fine with the so called "rebel" flag since it was never part of the CSA or its armies. It exists exclusively as a symbol of a racist south that it is long past time to move beyond.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 5:21:13 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


I'd need the actual link to the page you're talking about to be sure but...

I'd be fine with displaying the historical Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia, think the "rebel" flag except square, or the real Stars and Bars, here or one of the real CSA flags shown below it.

I will never be fine with the so called "rebel" flag since it was never part of the CSA or its armies. It exists exclusively as a symbol of a racist south that it is long past time to move beyond.


gawd thank goodness i never claim to be a rocket scientist....

heres_the_link

edited to add....i see they were the same links....can you say herbal therapy watching the pool fill up with water?  i can

anyhow, i hi-lited the part of that which i dont get.  if im waving a flag screaming kill blackie or the jews or the fat redheads, then you can consider me as representing the racist south.

but if i have it on my tag or a sticker on my truck (which is red and it would look WAY cooler than the general lee ever did with one)....anyhow, by seeing it displayed in that way, or on the back of a motorcycle, or a truck, consider that it has a different meaning to me, its a reminder of where *I* come from. 

i am from georgia, and other than when the klan used to set up at the entrance to the fair and yeehaw like idiots and yelland try to hand out pamplets(which very few folks wanted, they were more like a free side show, kinda like the bearded lady or something), ive never seen it displayed by anyone who hates anyone.

i wont try to change anyones mind about how they feel....ill let the politicians decide if it can be flown where ever, but i wont apologize for the fact seeing it and hearing dixie take mt to a warm safe place (sorry axl)

< Message edited by SeeksOnlyOne -- 6/5/2008 5:41:24 PM >

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 5:23:35 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd


I blew soda out my nose.. that so rocks! so now the KKK stands for Kinky Kitty Klub?





heh
now thats funny, i dont care who ya are

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 6:23:28 PM   
JohnSteed1967


Posts: 304
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Stars and Bars

I am sorry if the Confederate flag is racist to some but please look at it my way.

Black people are allowed to wear t shirts that celebrate Malcolm X, or Dr. King, Or their race in General and in Specific. However as a White man, born and raised in the south, I am not. If I were to have one item to celebrate the south, my white race etc. I am immediately labeled a racist.

Years ago I saw an Oprah Show, Back when it wasn't Tom Cruise on the couch. Where she was interviewing a Klansman and he said and I quote:

"The Black man can have the black college, The NAACP, The United Negro College fund, Miss Black America, Black Causes(SP) in the Senate and the list goes on. However, When a White man wants to have one thing solely and exclusively for the white race, We are immediately labeled Racist".
 
I am not a Member of the Klan, Not a Member of "The Sons...", Not a Member of the Aryan Brotherhood, Not a Member of the "Church of the Creator", Not a Member of the Nazi Party of America.

I just want to be allowed to be proud to be white and from the south. I remember when that meant something, I remember when you were allowed to say the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance before the start of School!

My Aunt was a teacher for 35+ years and in that time she had a black teacher called a black mother on the phone to talk about her son's behavior at school. After the teacher explained what was happening and that she was going to have to hold her son back a grade. The Mother began to scream loud enough that could be heard by all in the room "Your just racist, your just doing this because this is a black child"

The Mother had no idea that this was another black that she was talking with, but was more than willing to start screaming racism because for many Black's that is the answer for everything is that I am being persecuted because of my skin.
 

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 6:28:37 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967
Years ago I saw an Oprah Show, Back when it wasn't Tom Cruise on the couch. Where she was interviewing a Klansman and he said and I quote:

"The Black man can have the black college, The NAACP, The United Negro College fund, Miss Black America, Black Causes(SP) in the Senate and the list goes on. However, When a White man wants to have one thing solely and exclusively for the white race, We are immediately labeled Racist".
 
I am not a Member of the Klan, Not a Member of "The Sons...", Not a Member of the Aryan Brotherhood, Not a Member of the "Church of the Creator", Not a Member of the Nazi Party of America.


Some might argue that those black things you listed are to combat the problems created by the first batch of racism coming from whites. I agree that most of that is silly, however, we will never be one people so long as one group clings to their racist flag and the other group clings to all their special dispensation, citing the racist flag as a reason.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 6/5/2008 6:29:13 PM >

(in reply to JohnSteed1967)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 6:39:55 PM   
Vaughner


Posts: 381
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline 		Not sure where some of the information is coming from however 2 things.
The Confederate Flag as we think of it today is not the "Stars and Bars" this term refers to the original flag which too closely resembled the flag of the union.
"The Stainless Banner" is the flag we think of today and it was adopted by the Confederacy in 1863, and used on Stonewall Jackson's casket.

I am from Kentucky, the state that give birth to the Presidents of both sides of the Conflict, and the only state that could not fully decide on which side of the conflict to join.

The idea that the flag is racist pissess me off and shows how uneducated some people are.  If you say the flag is racist you are clearly making a reference to slavery.  The war was about State's Rights, and slavery was only one of numerous issues that lead up to the conflict.  Lincoln himself said that he would be willing to allow slavery to continue if it meant holding the Union together.  The Emancipation Procolomation was not made to free the slaves, it was to try to get them to rebel in the South weakening those states and making the war easier for the Union.

The Stainless Banner is a matter of heritage, and pride for those who have a lineage tracing to what it represented.  The right of the States to determine law versus the Federal Government.  The only manifestation of this that remains in the modern government is the electoral college.  Want to know why the President isn't decided by Popular Vote?  Its is because the States decide the President, not the people.  The People decide the Congress.  By the way were it not for the EC, California, New York, Florida, Michican, and Texas would determine every election.  While they are very important now, by themselves they do not deterime the Pres.

Now I am not one of these who wishes that the Confederacy had won the war.  If the United States had been divided it would not be the world's most powerful nation as it is today.  The bottom line is if for someone it represents pride in being white and southern, good for them.  Black people can have Black Pride and any organization they want.  Hispanics can have La Raza and numerous hate groups that don't get much play in the media.  Jewish persons can have the ADL, and any minority benefits from the ACLU.

But what if you are white?  Its a sin to take pride in the fact that you are white?  Its racist to carry a banner that to you represents this? 

You have the right to Freedom of Speach
You have the right to Bear Arms
You have the right to refuse quartering of troops in peacetime.
You have the right to protection against unreasonable search and seizure.
You have many rights, but the right to never be offended is not one of them.

If someone wants to fly the flag because it means something to them, that is their business.  If you don't like it avert your eyes.

(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 6:47:42 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		All of the things cited as 'Southern heritage' can be enjoyed without a misattributed scrap of cloth from some Taiwanese flag making sweatshop, with the possible exception of accurate historical re-enactment.

And when that same scrap of cloth is displayed as an integral part of a lynching, or a hate rally, it is in fact a racist symbol.

The trick is knowing the difference...

(in reply to Vaughner)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag - 6/5/2008 6:50:01 PM   
Vaughner


Posts: 381
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline 		So by that reasoning wearing a Malcolm-X shirt while preaching how evil the white man is makes it a racist symbol as well?
Just want to make sure we're on the same page.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 300
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