RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

Missokyst -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 8:08:23 PM)

I have come across this a lot over the years.  My members range in age from 24-80.  Occasionally I have approved members who were 21, 22,.. and even someone who was 19.  My problem with the younger members is the inconsistancy.  They join (m-f), they stick around for a week, or a munch, and they disappear from participating after one or two meetings.  The 19 yr old joined my list, dropped it after a couple of days, then rejoined for a week, then dropped it again.  He did this 4-5 times and then moaned and groaned when on that 6th time, I declined to approve him.
I think younger people should have access to bdsm if that is what they wish.  However, I don't want a flake on my group.  For what ever reason, whether it be age or experience, the kids seem to want instant gratification and tend to have hissy fits when their fantasy is not coming together.
Those people who run the TNG groups must have a lot of patience.
Or their requirements are a lot looser.
Kyst



RumpusParable -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 8:42:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
At what age should young people be welcomed to conventions, seminars, classes, public information meet and greets, dungeons, parties, demos? What do you think?


Depends on the laws of the area.  Last time I checked here in Augusta, GA, the age of consent to sex is 18 for some things and 17 for others.  The laws regarding exposure to obscene acts or soliciting sex to another illegally is 16.  Age of majority is 18.

Those who are 18 are all above the legal ages for the things that are discussed and done at munches, play parties and demos, etc.  They should be allowed to join. 

Unfortunately, most places they are not.  The reason given every time (after the age of consent false-argument is shot down) being that some people feels it's icky to play with or near someone 18-20, and backed with the foolishness of  "I don't want to play around someone young enough to be my child" when plenty 21 and over (including myself at 31) fall into the age range where they are young enough to be other member's children. Hell, in 2 years those who are 21 will fall into those who are young enough to be *my* child. (That was one hell of an age shock there when I realized it!)

I was, apparently, old enough to murder people for a paycheck legally at 18 but not old enough to spank someone in a kink social group.  It's a very weird world.

Correction:  I just looked it up and I was mistaken, must've been thinking of another state I've lived in lol!, the age of sexual consent in GA is 16.  -But I've yet to be to a munch where anything of that nature was occuring... or any play parties, for that matter.  All the parties and clubs and get-togethers I've attended in the US have had a no oral/PIV/anal rule. 

In this case, I'd stick with the age of 18 as it's the age of majority, whereas while a 16 year old can consent to sex they do not yet have full legal rights to their own time and actions... unless legally emancipated.  In that case, I'd approve of 16.



Wildfleurs -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 8:52:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

First of all, this is not another 'how can a person this young be a Dom, a Mistress, actually submit, know what they want?' thread.
On a local list that i subscribe to, which is for people who attend a local dungeon ( okay, not super local, i live in little house land out here! but, about as local as it gets) there is a discussion of age limits for attending munches, classes, dungeons, parties, conventions, whatever.
I have said many times before - someday we (BDSMers in general, as a subset of society) will 'grow up' enough (by which i mean, become mainstream and accepted enough, so i am kind of talking about everybody else growing up, not us) to start thinking about what the gay culture already deals with - young people. Young people who already know that they carry alternate sexual identities are in need of socialization and help to get safely through adolescence, and yet, they are not in need of being exposed to a lot of potential perps looking for some young stuff!
There are, of course, early bloomer munches in most bigger cities - you still have to be over 18, but usually it is only for the under 30 or 35 crowd, so it is a safe place to get to know other young people without anyone trying to get into your pants just cause your young and hot, and without anyone telling you that you are too young for all this, and without anyone getting jealous of your youth.
At what age should young people be welcomed to conventions, seminars, classes, public information meet and greets, dungeons, parties, demos? is it different for different events?
The thing that really got me to start the thread was, someone on the local list suggested a reasonable standard age limit - maybe 21 or 22 - with exceptions made for anyone over 18 but under the age limit who was willing to jump through several 'hoops' - like accepting being assigned a mentor, attending a certain number of munches and classes before being allowed at a party or dungeon event, ect.
What do you think?


I think its bullshit - so long as someone is a legal adult they should be allowed to attend non-alcoholic BDSM events. The only reason 18-21 year olds are excluded is generally because of peoples personal discomfort with being around someone their adult offsprings age. I think the last thing that you want to do to a novice is exclude them or present some set of hoops specific to their age thats just downright insulting.

I discovered BDSM when I was 18 and tried to reach out to what was then one of two local groups in the state (and there were no munches) when I was 19 only to be told I was to young and that I couldn't even go to a workshop until I was 21. Luckily a savvy person in NYC who was active in that scene suggested I try out NYC and just lie about my age (even TES was 21+ at that point). So thats what I did and I had to lie in order to actually learn about BDSM in a safe environment and I think its a fucking shame.

Once I hit 20 I got tired of treking out of state and started a munch (the first one in the state, and now the longest running munch in the state) so I could go to something that was within walking distance. And from then met more people, learned more and eventually met my owner. But I'm sure that not everyone had the luck to get the honest advice to just lie by omission to learn (I didn't play during that time, just sat like a scared lamb watching and absorbing). I'm sure there are people that ended up doing regodamndiculous things or getting into bad situations.

And so I can never understand the rationale for excluding legal adults - as far as I can tell setting the age limit at 19 as a compromise for groups really does avoid any sort of "18 year old high schooler attendee" issues and certainly there aren't any legal issues that I can tell (beyond the hysteria).

C~



fluffyswitch -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 9:03:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
Everyone has to start somewhere and if they're legal in their country/state/area then they should have the right to experience what they like.


I fail to see how a private club or group that sets an age limit of 21 is somehow depriving those 18 to 20 years of age from experiencing what they have "a right to experience". I practiced plenty of kinky stuff in my late teens without ever exercising my "right" to be a member of any group r club.



Whoop, good for you. You can learn a lot from watching other people and getting advice and testing things out; all of which a good club can do. Seeing things in live action and in person and talking to people for feedback is a lot more helpful then on line vidoes or lil websites. PLUS, if they're young they might feel more comfortable in said group setting seeing other people enjoy what they do (or are curious about) rather than thinking they're some sexual deviant for what they link. Hell, the reaons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities.



agreed. my responses always came out snarky though so i just gave up and didn't respond. but i agree that the idea that 'i didn't need it and i came out fine' is great for you but not for all, and from most of what i've read the average (cringe) individual does interact with groups even if it's not in a formal setting regardless of what subculture is under discussion. and yes there are individuals who may only have access to formal groups. in the deliverance-esque area that i'm from originally formal/semi-formal structured groups may be the only way to get face to face interaction. and to be honest i've met people my age who are actually scared to explore their sexuality, whether be queer/not queer or kink/nonkink because of this idea-- you don't need interaction because i didn't need interaction or don't want to be reminded that i didn't spring up fully instructed in whatever sexuality i happen to subscribe to. which to me is just sad. but shrug.



abcbsex -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 9:58:54 PM)

*waves hand* 19 year old here, in the lifestyle, currently trying my darndest to get to be 21 as soon as possible so I can go to a munch without having to drive three hours to Atlanta for a TNG group. I'd start my own here, but I think it would just be my husband and I. In that case, lots of sex would happen, so the authorities in the good old "birthplace of Southern Baptism" might be a bit iffy about it.



allcatsaregrey -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 10:43:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

The biggest problem I see there is that most of those who would 'volunteer' to 'mentor' someone of that age are exactly the kind that you are trying to protect them from.


This is my biggest concern, as well. "Mentor" brings up a negative connotation for me - and I'm sure others - because so many predators want to "Mentor" nice, young subs. Make the "Mentors" prove they're worth it - hey, teachers have to get certified in the vanilla world, why not make the would-be's show why they should be allowed to mentor someone?



Hanable -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 10:53:11 PM)

i say the legal limit should be 18 or whatever the age of consent is. if ur worried about the underagers, any one below 21 if in a bar or club, a lot of clubs/bars have wrists bands so the bartenders and waitresses know not to sell drinks to them.

personaly im almost 20 but i dont know if id enjoy a munch.. so many "older" more experienced ppl in the life style look down on the 18-whoever old's becuz were jsut getting into the life or were to young and stupid to know what were doing. persoanlyl i think thats BS.. ive met 30 year olds who know less about sex/kink/any topic then i or my friends do/did.. its stupid. jsut becuz some ones young dosnet mean there stupid or dont know what there doing.

if u wanna "monitor" or "mentor" then.. fine.. i have no argument about that.. any new member of a group/munhc/whatever shold be watched.. to make sure there safe and to make sure there not gonna get said group into trouble.

ill end my rant here for now.

H >:)



pinksugarsub -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 11:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

At what age should young people be welcomed to conventions, seminars, classes, public information meet and greets, dungeons, parties, demos? is it different for different events?
The thing that really got me to start the thread was, someone on the local list suggested a reasonable standard age limit - maybe 21 or 22 - with exceptions made for anyone over 18 but under the age limit who was willing to jump through several 'hoops' - like accepting being assigned a mentor, attending a certain number of munches and classes before being allowed at a party or dungeon event, ect.
What do you think?


I think it's complete and utter BS to say to someone who can decide to enlist to go die for her country, for someone who can can decide it's time for him to get married, and for someone who can be tried as an adult in a court of law to be told you aren't old enough to come to our munch, our workshop, our whatever.

Accurate information can only be helpful to everyone.


Legally, and as a society, we have made certain judgments about the level of responsbility and risk a P/person can undertake, based on age.  The period between age 18 and age 21 is s'what grey; P/pl under age 21 are not allowed to drink alcohol because we, as a society, do not think T/they are mature enough to handle it responsibly.  Of course it's based on a sweeping generalisation...some teens are quite capable of handling all adult responsibilities; while other P/pl cannot even do T/their own laundry at age 27. 
 
Personally, i think an argument could be made that the age for induction into the military -- esp when combat is a possibility -- should be raised to 21.  i shudder to think of the 18 year old soliders on the front lines in Iraq now, just as i did when we sent 18 year olds to Vietnam.  However, no impetus to raise the age is afoot...probably because there is a shortage of cannon fodder as it is.
 
pinksugarsub



Guilty1974 -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 11:35:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanable

personaly im almost 20 but i dont know if id enjoy a munch.. so many "older" more experienced ppl in the life style look down on the 18-whoever old's becuz were jsut getting into the life or were to young and stupid to know what were doing.


And there's so many "older" more experienced people who would just welcome you just like anybody else... Those who look down can be ignored :-)

quote:


if u wanna "monitor" or "mentor" then.. fine.. i have no argument about that.. any new member of a group/munhc/whatever shold be watched.. to make sure there safe and to make sure there not gonna get said group into trouble.


I organise rope bondage meetings occasionally, and the young are equally welcome as the old, to learn from each other. Because of legal issues, we're 18+, although in theory I support SteelOfUtahs opinion on page 1 of this thread.



Archer -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/5/2008 11:38:18 PM)

As most folks notced I was speaking from a risk management for the owner of a venue. The trade off you make is simple security that the group will be less likely to be shut down vs the right of an 18-19 year old to attend an event. SOme folks make the call one way others the other way. How much would it suck for the larger part of the group to lose their space because the 18 and 19 year olds were let in? Vs How much it sucks that the 18 and 19 year olds can't attend group events where play is involved.


Now Munches are a differnet story munches are not exactly going to draw any real police attention so raids are basicly non existant, so I know most of the munches here have an 18 cut off age.

Again the mentoring thing, I'm going to reitterate the idea that mentoring is best done on the same side of the power / and when possible the same gender.
Firmly believe in the idea as valuable, just that the execution of it in our world has been terrible to say the least.



Evility -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:52:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
Hell, the reasons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities.


Which now means every bdsm group out there now has an obligation to include them. It's all about the rights of the 18 year olds. Not the groups hosting the events.

Got it.





Evility -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:58:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
agreed. my responses always came out snarky though so i just gave up and didn't respond. but i agree that the idea that 'i didn't need it and i came out fine' is great for you but not for all


You're missing the point of my posts. Usako goes on about the rights of the youngsters as if the bdsm groups have some obligation to include them simply because they have the right to vote or get arrested. If a group wants to include them I think that's great but it's their choice. This 'they have the right' gibberish is nonsense.



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 3:08:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch

i actually prefer the word of mouth approach. i was introduced to bdsm at around 19 through a switch that i knew. we're considering mentoring a girl who's 18. i think personally that a group setting could be overwhelming (but your mileage will vary and it does depend on the individual). i think that it's the same as with anyone else who enters a specific subculture, you can get extremely mature 18 year olds who handle it fine and extremely immature 38 year olds who can't.


Ditto, i'm with her on this one.



Usako -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 4:23:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
Hell, the reasons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities.


Which now means every bdsm group out there now has an obligation to include them. It's all about the rights of the 18 year olds. Not the groups hosting the events.

Got it.





I never said anyone was obligated to do anything. No where did I say people MUST accept 18 year olds. I said people between 18-21 have the right to experience the social BDSM scene. Now if people want to be anal and exclude them, that's their right too, I just disagree with it.



Dnomyar -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 5:02:53 AM)

Enough with all of the 18,19 and 20 year olds inmature whineing. Thats why most people dont' want to put up with you. As was stated, legal reasons are why you can't play at most adult places. Do I have a problem with so a called 18 year old. Yes. When you lie about your age and I get caught with you Im the one going to jail not you. Is there a soultion to this problem. Of course there is. Get off your ass and start your own groups with people your age. What's so hard about that. The only thing stopping you is lazyness. The only reason you want with the older crowd is that older women make better lovers.  



patransguy -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 6:47:49 AM)

I had my first (one of only a few at this point) BDSM experience about 2 months after my 18th birthday. Looking back, it was a poor decision to have made, but that was not because I wasn't ready for a BDSM experience - I just had issues with the one-off nature of the hookup. I knew I wanted to be sub, still do, and if I'd had more and better opportunities for a relationship at that time I would have pursued it.

Age is not always a defining characteristic of maturity. Nor is lack of experience equal to lack of talent.



Wildfleurs -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 7:01:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

As most folks notced I was speaking from a risk management for the owner of a venue. The trade off you make is simple security that the group will be less likely to be shut down vs the right of an 18-19 year old to attend an event. SOme folks make the call one way others the other way. How much would it suck for the larger part of the group to lose their space because the 18 and 19 year olds were let in? Vs How much it sucks that the 18 and 19 year olds can't attend group events where play is involved.



Except can you actually point to any case where a BDSM club or organization was closed down by any sort of legal authority soley or primarily because they allowed people in the 18-21 age range?

I can't think of a single instance and there are plenty of national BDSM conventions that include play that have a 19+ age range (BR, TES Fest, and Floating World off the top of my head) so that I think that your argument isn't really a valid one. Not to mention the National Leather Association's individual membership is 18+.


quote:


Again the mentoring thing, I'm going to reitterate the idea that mentoring is best done on the same side of the power / and when possible the same gender.
Firmly believe in the idea as valuable, just that the execution of it in our world has been terrible to say the least.


I am personally not a huge fan of mentoring. I get that for some people its a helpful path for learning, but its never been something that resonates deeply with me and so I never had a mentor and did just fine (didn't have any traumatic or bad experiences and managed to make my way just fine).

C~



CruelDesires -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 7:11:55 AM)

Now now. I've met and spoken to 30 and 40something year olds who whine like little kids . Its all relative. [8|]

CD



fluffyswitch -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 7:21:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
Hell, the reasons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities.


Which now means every bdsm group out there now has an obligation to include them. It's all about the rights of the 18 year olds. Not the groups hosting the events.

Got it.





i don't think anyone stated that it was a matter of obligation as opposed to one of exclusion. i don't remember anyone stating, though i could be wrong, that these groups HAVE to include 18 year olds as opposed to being open to include them-- as opposed to having groups of older individuals who exclude individuals under a certain age. and yes i'm aware as some one else pointed out you can have groups made up of primarily my age (23 or so) and under but then again it's matter of you're too young to play with us. if there is a legitimate legal reason to keep people out (which i'm not entirely convinced there is) then more power to you. but i've read and heard about a lot of groups who have the immaturity excuse-- younger players do nothing but whine and i don't want anything to do with them, which i find truly ironic because that's whining in its own right. but your mileage will vary.



Missokyst -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 9:05:42 AM)

The most legitimate reason for people keeping them out is because they can.  No BDSM club or munch group that I know is funded by the public.  They are run, hosted, and/or rented out by members who have the right to call the shots.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
if there is a legitimate legal reason to keep people out (which i'm not entirely convinced there is) then more power to you.



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875