RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle

RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (Full Version)

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Madame4a -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 9:47:36 AM)
As I said early on in this debate, there is OFTEN a legal reason that is legitimate... as in local laws, at least in terms of events, clubs and some organizations... for the most part, I prefer venues that I attend abide by those laws and are up on them... quote: ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch quote: ORIGINAL: Evility quote: ORIGINAL: Usako Hell, the reasons go and on and on; point is discovering ones self doesn't start at "21" and if the legal age of wherever you are is 18/17/whatever then they should be allowed to enjoy, legally, adult activities. Which now means every bdsm group out there now has an obligation to include them. It's all about the rights of the 18 year olds. Not the groups hosting the events. Got it. i don't think anyone stated that it was a matter of obligation as opposed to one of exclusion. i don't remember anyone stating, though i could be wrong, that these groups HAVE to include 18 year olds as opposed to being open to include them-- as opposed to having groups of older individuals who exclude individuals under a certain age. and yes i'm aware as some one else pointed out you can have groups made up of primarily my age (23 or so) and under but then again it's matter of you're too young to play with us. if there is a legitimate legal reason to keep people out (which i'm not entirely convinced there is) then more power to you. but i've read and heard about a lot of groups who have the immaturity excuse-- younger players do nothing but whine and i don't want anything to do with them, which i find truly ironic because that's whining in its own right. but your mileage will vary.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 11:26:17 AM)
some of the groups set it to beyond 18 cause they say then you'll be more likely to be out of highschool and be more mature, and in some cases less likely to be living at home* as was the reason with one group for making their agelimit over 25* quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs And so I can never understand the rationale for excluding legal adults - as far as I can tell setting the age limit at 19 as a compromise for groups really does avoid any sort of "18 year old high schooler attendee" issues and certainly there aren't any legal issues that I can tell (beyond the hysteria). C~

Wildfleurs -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 11:53:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss some of the groups set it to beyond 18 cause they say then you'll be more likely to be out of highschool and be more mature, and in some cases less likely to be living at home* as was the reason with one group for making their agelimit over 25* quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs And so I can never understand the rationale for excluding legal adults - as far as I can tell setting the age limit at 19 as a compromise for groups really does avoid any sort of "18 year old high schooler attendee" issues and certainly there aren't any legal issues that I can tell (beyond the hysteria). C~ That is just an opinion as opposed to some sort of legal precedent or actual law in the US that would restrict the membership. And as I stated, there are both national BDSM organizations and national conferences that are either 18 or 19 plus, which I believe simply strengthens the argument for groups being 18 or 19 plus. C~

Archer -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 12:49:34 PM)
Actually yes I can The Star club (swinger club but same basic idea) Busted and the newspaper report headlines were exactly as I mentioned "Teens Busted in Sex Club Raid" The club was in fact closed down because the City Council got too much preassure from the bible thumpers. Happened in Atlanta Georgia. I'm having trouble finding the stories mixxed in with all the crap you get when googleing. Extending the idea that city councils view dungeons the same way they view swingers clubs is not very far to stretch. You'll note I mentioned that the problem was less with the law and more with the politics of newspaper headlines. The closing was not legally because of the teens but politicly it was. All they have to do is revoke our certificate of occupancy, change your zoneing and you're stuck out.

Maestro66babycak -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:14:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I have come across this a lot over the years. My members range in age from 24-80. Occasionally I have approved members who were 21, 22,.. and even someone who was 19. My problem with the younger members is the inconsistancy. They join (m-f), they stick around for a week, or a munch, and they disappear from participating after one or two meetings. The 19 yr old joined my list, dropped it after a couple of days, then rejoined for a week, then dropped it again. He did this 4-5 times and then moaned and groaned when on that 6th time, I declined to approve him. I think younger people should have access to bdsm if that is what they wish. However, I don't want a flake on my group. For what ever reason, whether it be age or experience, the kids seem to want instant gratification and tend to have hissy fits when their fantasy is not coming together. Those people who run the TNG groups must have a lot of patience. Or their requirements are a lot looser. Kyst You said it yourself, 19 year olds are KIDS. Teenagers are still children no matter what the law says. I am speaking from the point of view of a Mother of 2 ums. If I caught some old Dom trying to "train, enslave or otherwise mess with" my teenage 19 year old daughter there would be pain, there would be blood, and there might be jail time depending on whether or not I could contain my rage. Teenagers are children, like it or not. Any old man or woman having sex with a teenager (child) is a pedophile in my eyes I really do not care about the law. Do not enslave children, give them a chance to grow up! Of course this is my opinion but it is one I would defend unto my own death.

softness -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:20:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maestro66babycak Teenagers are children, like it or not. wow ... that whole post there ,... indicates you really interact with, have respect for, and understand teenagers good luck with that when your UMs hit their teens .. I would love to hear how that goes for you At 19 I was living away from home, putting myself through university, enslaved, successfull .. 5 years later ... i still know that was a good choice at 19 my mother was married and had a baby on the way ... 42 years later she still sees that as the right choice and is still in love with the man she chose for herself at 19 at 19 the law saod I could vote, marry, drive, have children of my own, drink, buy a house, ... but you would chave called me a child ...hmmm as I said ... must be great where you live ... divorced from reality and all

RCdc -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:29:23 PM)
quote: Do not enslave children, give them a chance to grow up! Of course this is my opinion but it is one I would defend unto my own death. Absolutely. And maybe taking your own advice would be a good place to begin. the.dark.

fluffyswitch -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:34:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maestro66babycak If I caught some old Dom trying to "train, enslave or otherwise mess with" my teenage 19 year old daughter there would be pain, there would be blood, and there might be jail time depending on whether or not I could contain my rage. but not at 20? i've never really understood that logic, as if it were a switch that you could flip.

softness -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch quote: ORIGINAL: Maestro66babycak If I caught some old Dom trying to "train, enslave or otherwise mess with" my teenage 19 year old daughter there would be pain, there would be blood, and there might be jail time depending on whether or not I could contain my rage. but not at 20? i've never really understood that logic, as if it were a switch that you could flip. imagines the evil, corrupting pedo Dominants waiting outside the sleeping "child's" door ... waiting to pounce at midnight

fluffyswitch -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:36:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness quote: ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch quote: ORIGINAL: Maestro66babycak If I caught some old Dom trying to "train, enslave or otherwise mess with" my teenage 19 year old daughter there would be pain, there would be blood, and there might be jail time depending on whether or not I could contain my rage. but not at 20? i've never really understood that logic, as if it were a switch that you could flip. imagines the evil, corrupting pedo Dominants waiting outside the sleeping "child's" door ... waiting to pounce at midnight sighs...you know...i know it takes all types but come on...lol.

SteelofUtah -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 1:37:28 PM)
See I agree with this I know of many clubs that just don't want the press. 19 is a Teenager. 20 can even be an issue because the Papers say "people under 21" and sadly we don't visually think 20 we think like 15 it is a sad truth but a truth none the less. TNG meetings that I know of of the 4 that I have attended only one allows those who were 18 to attend the other three were at bars which required them to be 21. In my opinon the rules of the establishment as all that is necessary for maintaing balance. The truth of the matter is the Net is truely a safe place to LEARN if all you are doing is LEARNING you are given hundreds of different belief systems and have to determine your own. The problem is the young are also eager and so they try to take it beyond the learning stage in the real world and this is often where youth can help to create bruises and even scars. I may be young and I may hate the age issue but truth be told I wish kids would stay kids longer I dove in way too fast and gave up much of my adolesence trying to prove I wasn't just a kid when in reality I was and probably should have stayed one at least until I understood what I was. I think we as a community should be open to explaining things to people the way that we understand them and as they apply to us but I don't think respecting the rules of a Munch or at least the establishment the munch is being held in is too much. I didn't respect those ideals and truth be told my presence put a lot of people at risk, if I could go back then knowing what I know now I never would have attended a munch underage. Too many People have too much at stake. I think the Legal age of Adulthood is a good guideline and as far as I know all 50 states say that's 18 unless I am mistaken. But even 21 is a good idea and 25 will at least give them some real life experinece and weed out some of the jibber jabbers that often find thier ways to local communities just to get a little slap and tickle. I hate being judged for my age but truth be told the Law is the Law and when we interact in public we should do so responsibly. and when we do things in private we should honestly think about all the people involved and not just what we as individuals think is right or wrong because others have things at stake as well. It's selfish not to think of them. Steel

Maestro66babycak -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:12:16 PM)
You seem to think this was a personal attack on you , it is not. As I said before it is simply my opinion and it has nothing to do with the law. It does work well where I am. My daughter is already at that age, it is not a matter of respect it is a matter of allowing the child to grow up and decide what she wants to become before someone tries to mold them into what he or she wants them to become, namely slaves or subs. At the age of 19 most children do not yet know what they want out of life. I am not talking about the few that are like you. I am also not taking about the ones that join the military ( they grow up out of necessity to survive once they do join)I am talking about the majority of teenagers that are not mature enough to be thrust out into the world and abused by a lifestyle that is full of fakes and users. Real Masters/Dominants use common sense and intuition when choosing subs. Most Real Dominants over the age of 50 do not choose children . Of course your mother said that ... anytime there is a child involved a good mother will protect that child to her own death. I am sure your mother is the same way. If she saw that you were being used or abused by some horny old man don't you think she would do what she had to do to protect you? Would you do any less for your own children? Oh and yes I would have thought of you as a child. I wouldn't have called you a child but even though I don't know you if I saw someone harming you I would take some kind of action to help you as if you were my child. This is also my opinion.

BrigandDoom -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:23:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maestro66babycak You said it yourself, 19 year olds are KIDS. Teenagers are still children no matter what the law says. I am speaking from the point of view of a Mother of 2 ums. If I caught some old Dom trying to "train, enslave or otherwise mess with" my teenage 19 year old daughter there would be pain, there would be blood, and there might be jail time depending on whether or not I could contain my rage. Teenagers are children, like it or not. Any old man or woman having sex with a teenager (child) is a pedophile in my eyes I really do not care about the law. Do not enslave children, give them a chance to grow up! Of course this is my opinion but it is one I would defend unto my own death. I have to say, but what load of old tripe! I've met 16 year olds with more intelligence, common sense and maturity that I have adults of 35+. Age has absolutely nothing to do with a persons maturity or outlook on life. These days our teenagers are better informed, more knowledgeable and considerably more worldly wise than I was 20 years ago. You have some very strange views and I'm glad that people like you are in a minority! Just because a person is 19 oneday, 20 the next, doesn't mean that they have suddenly wised up! The very fact that in some states and countries you legally marry at 16, and there is no law, nor is there any research that backs up your views. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but yours leavbe you severly wanting!

Maestro66babycak -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:23:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness imagines the evil, corrupting pedo Dominants waiting outside the sleeping "child's" door ... waiting to pounce at midnight That is exactly what I meant by not being mature. The inability to interract rationally in a public forum is just one small example . Granted there are those that are older that act the same way. But that is for another thread entirely. [sm=banana.gif]

Maestro66babycak -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:29:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom I have to say, but what load of old tripe! I've met 16 year olds with more intelligence, common sense and maturity that I have adults of 35+. Age has absolutely nothing to do with a persons maturity or outlook on life. These days our teenagers are better informed, more knowledgeable and considerably more worldly wise than I was 20 years ago. You have some very strange views and I'm glad that people like you are in a minority! Just because a person is 19 oneday, 20 the next, doesn't mean that they have suddenly wised up! The very fact that in some states and countries you legally marry at 16, and there is no law, nor is there any research that backs up your views. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but yours leavbe you severly wanting! And then there are those that nitpick every post to death...In case you didnt read the title of the thread it specifically says 19 year olds. So that is what I wrote. I would protect my daughter no matter what her age if I thought she needed me nothing would keep me away! My statement before was not a peronal attack on you , it was my opinion... like it or not.

SteelofUtah -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:40:01 PM)
You have GOT to be kidding me!

Archer -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:44:12 PM)
You also included in the peadophile group those sleeping with 18 and 19 year olds which marks all your subsequent protest as trying to cover your tracks. BTW that was a "fast reply" not directed where the in reply to section says. LOL

SteelofUtah -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:45:56 PM)
Archer was that to me?? a Bit Confused Steel

Archer -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 2:47:00 PM)
LOOL I was editing that as you posted because I thought it might be confusing. LOL

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: 19 year olds in the lifestyle (6/6/2008 3:52:08 PM)
Isn't preventing them from experiencing and exploring another form of slavery and inhibition?

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