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ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I've read the whole thread but wanted to return to the original post. One thing that sociobiology has discovered is that many of us search for aspects of our parents in our partners. It seems as though both of you have been rather too successful in that ... you've both found people who raise the past spectre of weight issues. You've dealt with this before with a weight-obsessed parent and survived ... it doesn't seem that your Master has been quite so successful in escaping from His own experiences with His own esteem intact. Your being a bit overweight triggers off all of his insecurities ... which is why he ends up seemingly contradictory ... "I love you just the way you are but that is totally in conflict with how I view every other larger person". That, from personal experience, is hell to live with ... and I am much more than 20lb overweight. [An aside to those who love to blame fat people: And, it has nothing to do with acting like a pig, some of us have health issues that make it impossible to readily lose weight. It's the one part of My life over which I have never been in control, despite considerable knowledge in Human Biology and nutrition, and seeking any amount of medical advice over the years. The one diet from an endocrinologist that once caused Me to lose 84lb in 6 months never worked again (and neither has any other!) ... and I never felt in control of that loss just as I am not in control of the gain. While that diet successfully tricked My genes into permitting the weight loss ... they obviously hit the thrifty reset button! And other health issues from non weight-related injuries (car accidents) preclude sufficient exercise which might help. And no, I am not looking for yet more dietary advice!].

In My previous relationship, I was with a man for 12 years who had his own issues with weight and vanity, who preferred thinner girls but ostensibly fell in love with Me. I realise now I allowed his insecurities to be projected to a degree onto Me. When for multiple reasons it all ended, I asked him why, [knowing from his own admission that he was so resentful of the fact that I am clever, musically talented and far more popular than him despite being fat] ... why did he fall in love with Me? His answer chilled Me to the bone ... "you were the only one that bothered with me". Nothing about My personal qualities that might have attracted him ... only the fact that I had not kicked him to the kerb from the start, I had "bothered" with him. Essentially, all this time I was feeding his own insecurities while he was busy trying to tear Me down to his level. I know now he didn't really love ME ... not the personal Me, not Me the woman ... he loved having someone who would accept him with all his foibles, his cross-dressing obsession ... and who, he believed, made him look better (ie slimmer) by being so fat.

Now OP, I don't know the intricacies of your situation. I don't personally know your Master. But a lot of what you wrote resonated with Me. I wouldn't volunteer for those 12 years again ... and I wouldn't wish them on anyone else either. I know you don't want to consider leaving ... and fair enough, everyone deserves the opportunity to change themselves. But your Master has to be a lot more willing to discuss the issues (and His unwillingness to confront any touchy subject is core as others have suggested ... while the specific weight issue is a critical way in which that core problem is manifested) ... and while He has given you a suggested technique (and sure, you can try that), I agree that it is merely masking the problem not getting to the essence of it. I gave Mine 3 chances ... as in we restarted the relationship completely 3 times ... not sure I'd be so generous in hindsight. While I applaud your willingness to work at it ... you can't do ALL this work on your own ... don't for one minute let Him convince you that you can.

I sincerely wish you all the best.
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

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 Any ideas?

First, it is seldom that I see personal issues brought to the board that are not full of drama.  My compliments of having the courage to share what you have and doing so in a very constructive manner.  I hope that the responses to you are done with an equal amount of consideration and thought that you have shown.

"He sees himself as twenty pounds or so overweight and is so self-conscious about it that he refuses to have full-length mirrors in his house."

It is clear from this statement that most of his views of others is a projection of his own feelings of self.  He has esteem issues and it might be that he is using weight as the scape goat.  I am curious, is he active in some sort of  exercise program etc to attempt to bring his weight down?  or do you find yourself confused about his view on his own weight but he isn't doing anything constructive about it?  If you find him obsessed with trying to deal with his weight issue, then it very likely he has certain deep seeded views on weight.  However, if he really isn't doing anything to get back in shape (assuming he was in shape at one point in his life)... then I have to wonder if there isn't more significant issues at work.  Was he in great shape in his younger days?  or was he always the heavy one and did he develop his opinions because his high school buddies in shape recieved what he want but never got.  Is he blaming his weight for what he never recieved and projecting this on the rest of the world?

"Personally, I believe that confidence and self-esteem play a MUCH larger role in how a person is perceived than weight does."

I completely agree with this comment.  However, when a person has a lack of confidence and a lack of self-esteem they tend to pick at things of themselves that reinforce the lack of confidence and lack of self-esteem.  It is a rather destructive cycle and it will affect their relationships. 

"His comments about other people lead me to wonder what he really thinks of me, and even though he assures me he loves me and would love me no matter what the scale said, I find myself asking why I'm any different than those he talks negatively about"

There is no easy answer with this and the logic of our question seems sound.  But instead of making it about you... about asking this question and see it changes your preception alittle and maybe allow you to see a solution.
   

"His comments about other people lead me to wonder what he really thinks of himself, who is also over weight?.  Why does he insist on holding on to a belief that is destructive to his own confidence and self-esteem?"

"I'm finding myself resenting and resisting his attempts to gently nudge me into losing weight.  I know he wants me to, even though he doesn't come out and make it an order.  I think it would almost be easier to deal with if it was an order, strange as that may sound.  Could I stand to lose a few pounds?  Sure.  But... I don't want to feel I have to lose weight for him to accept me.  Accept me as I am NOW and not for what my potential might be.  Does that make sense?

I have to wonder.. is his desire for you to loose weight a way for him to feel better of himself.  If you are skinny etc.. what does that say about himself?  This question is from his perspective.   I have to wonder if you loosing weight is a way for him to accept himself.  If there is some truth to this.... Then he is doomed to fail.  His confidence and self-esteem is not going to be improved by being dependent on someone else.. it will only be improved from within himself and not outwardly.  I can understand that you want him to accept you for you... but it seems that he isn't accept him for him...

"I'm afraid it will become a HUGE issue for us.  I would rather work it out now than to let it become the elephant in the living room.  "

I think you are right and to your credit you are trying to deal with it..  and it is not going to be easy. 

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ORIGINAL: Treasure3

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ORIGINAL: firefey

a few things i would like to explore with this topic.  number one, he is right in the most general sence of the word.  studies have shown that "attractive" people are more successful.  they are also more self assured and confident.  but it's a chicken/egg situation.  are the "attractive" people more successful because they are confident or are they more successful because they are "attractive"?  i would hazard to guess that confidence and success are the commonalities.  not success and attractivness, which is SO subjective anyway.

which brings me to number two.  what we, and here i mean society in general, deffine as attractive has changed drasticly in the last fifty years.  but lucky for us girls with curves, the pendulum seems to be heading back to center.  slowly, but surely.  unfortunetly the ideal of thinness is vastly out of proportion with what is healthy, and most people who are focused on being thin are focused on the body mass index.  which is the more retarded index ever created.  imo.  i could say more about it, but i don't know that many curse words.  the BMI is grossly inaccureate and most people, were they to follow their recommendation, would be gaunt and sickly.  education about what is an actualy health wieght might be needed here.  for you more than him.  you need to know these things so that you are armed for the comming conversation.

lastly, he does need to be doing something about his wieght if he is going to be so critical of others.  asside from working on chaning his pedjudices here, and they are just as though he were racist or sexist he needs to understand that, perhaps you could step in and assist.  you mention that you visit him.  how often do these visits happen?  would it be workable for you to help him with health eating habits?  would it be workable for you to come up with an activities routine you could both do together.  walks or roller blading, or whatever you enjoy.  and lastly, do you compliment him on how he looks?  do you tell him when you see him that you find him attractive?  or if his appearence has changed to you mention it?  i'm not saying you need to feed his ego, but rather if he is going to make the transition to a more health attitude about wieght and his own self worth, you will need to support him.  perhaps sharing with him where you were and what you had to do to become happy in your skin?

As for helping him with his eating habits, he is a vegitarian and into all kinds of herbal medicine and supplements.  The activity is what I think might be the most helpful, but he is the one in charge of what we do when I visit, and if he isn't feeling up to being out and about or whatever, what do I do? 

Complimenting him... that made me stop and think.  I compliment on the things *I* notice the most.  I tell him how much I love his eyes and his smile, his voice, the way he makes me feel, how his new shirt really brings out the blue in his eyes, that kind of thing.  He does ask me quite often if his belly looks smaller or if his arms look bigger.  Those just aren't the things that I notice.  Maybe I should work on that, but honestly, I feel as if commenting on his belly or whatever when I already feel he is just fine and not overweight is just perpetuating the cycle of him being hard on himself and trying to work for outside approval when I really want to see him learn to find approval within himself.  Maybe I should just go with it?

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ORIGINAL: Treasure3

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ORIGINAL: TorridAffair

I am so overwhelmed by how much we women suffer over weight...and more and more men are as well.  It seems clear to me that your Master is projecting his own issues about his own weight and body onto you as you said he can't even look in the mirror at himself.  One way to handle that is by deflecting it right back to him ... just like if you had Wonder Woman's bracelettes on.  Here is an example:
Master: "Slave you look as though you have gained a couple of pounds."
Slave possible answers:
"Master are you feeling bloated today?"
"Master I am sorry you are feeling heavier than normal."
"You too, Master, look like you have put on a few pounds."
"Master please tend to your issues about your body asap, they are negatively impacting me."
I send you lots of girl power, love, and acceptance of your beautiful curves. 

Thank you for your post, TorridAffair.  I have a question for you.  Would the answers you suggested not further inflame the situation?  I can see how they would be helpful if the other person had stated they wanted to be told when they were projecting their feelings, but, in the absense of such a desire, would it still be productive?

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ORIGINAL: Treasure3

KnightofMists, thank you for your kind words. 

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I asked the question differently, as you suggested, and came up with what I just posted in response to MaamJay.  I'm not sure if it is the correct answer, but just changing the perspective allowed me to feel compassion where resentment and mistrust was before.  That alone is a positive change.

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He doesn't go into much detail about that part of his past, only to say that he created a self-image for himself in high school, and he has declined to elaborate further on what that was.  It is a fact that his life dramatically changed between between high school and college and it is likely he will not ever get back to the way he was before.  Is it possible to help him realize that developing a new self-image is not a bad thing or is this a conclusion that he must come to on his own? 

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ORIGINAL: TorridAffair

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ORIGINAL: Treasure3

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ORIGINAL: TorridAffair

I am so overwhelmed by how much we women suffer over weight...and more and more men are as well.  It seems clear to me that your Master is projecting his own issues about his own weight and body onto you as you said he can't even look in the mirror at himself.  One way to handle that is by deflecting it right back to him ... just like if you had Wonder Woman's bracelettes on.  Here is an example:
Master: "Slave you look as though you have gained a couple of pounds."
Slave possible answers:
"Master are you feeling bloated today?"
"Master I am sorry you are feeling heavier than normal."
"You too, Master, look like you have put on a few pounds."
"Master please tend to your issues about your body asap, they are negatively impacting me."
I send you lots of girl power, love, and acceptance of your beautiful curves. 

Thank you for your post, TorridAffair.  I have a question for you.  Would the answers you suggested not further inflame the situation?  I can see how they would be helpful if the other person had stated they wanted to be told when they were projecting their feelings, but, in the absense of such a desire, would it still be productive?

If he were literally throwing his shit all over her after she had clearly stated no scat play, would you be concerned about whether he wanted to know he was projecting his shit onto her if I told her to use a shield that made his shit bounce back onto him?