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Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 5:58:22 AM   
kittenpuss


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline 		So excuse the naviety of my question but I am just learning but what happens if you are a sub who finds the most erotic thing is to relenquish power and that's enough? You don't need to be punished in anyway as you've already given yourself in your entirety. All that punishment &  pain seems to do is detract you from your state? What is it about inflicting from a dom's point of view which is so appealing when you already have total power?
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:01:01 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Could you explain just a bit more? When you talk about punishment, are you talking about consequences of some error? Or are you talking about a session/scene, in which pain is used for pleasure? I'm jsut trying to understand what you're asking.

juliet

(in reply to kittenpuss)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:04:20 AM   
kittenpuss


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Juliet I am talking about a session/ scene in which pain is given for pleasure.

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:06:25 AM   
GabrielleSlave


Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline 		For me the worst kind of punishment involves no pain at all... He just withdraws His attention (basically ignores me..) More effective than pain, but then i love pain.  i think you need to be more specific in what you are actually asking here...

Gabrielle x
Edited as you posted while i was...

Submission does not have to involve pain; there are many on here who don't enjoy pain (unlike me lol!).  Each to their own...

< Message edited by GabrielleSlave -- 6/8/2008 6:09:15 AM >

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D. H. Lawrence

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:07:53 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Ahh...I wish I could help but I honestly have no answer for that. I am a masochist.  So, then you are talking about no sessions? Or .... ??

juliet

(in reply to kittenpuss)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:10:19 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		You might want to do a little searching on the term sadomasochism -- I'm sure wikipedia will do it.

Its only a start.  For some, pain is pleasure, for others pain is not.  For some, they receive pain as service to another (that would be my boi) and some people don't involve pain at all in their relationships.

Punishment is a whole other issue and I'd suggest you actually search here for that, as well as a pain search here.

For me, punishment is parental and not a part of any relationship I want to have -- its not my thing.  I'm a dominant sadist and I like to inflict pain.  Its often that I'm paired with a masochist who enjoys receiving pain -- its fun, not punishment.

_____________________________

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:11:31 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		No, submission does not always involve pain.  But if you've gotten involved with a sadistic dom who wants to inflict pain, it probably will.  If you don't like that, find a dom who is more on the same page as you are.  You're allowed to do that.

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:11:45 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		For me relinquishing power is what it is all about. There is no punishment or pain unless it is erotic pain. Sometimes if I get stressed out or overwhelmed something like a hard spanking that makes me cry is cathartic, otherwise there isn't pain in our relationship.
I can't imagine him arbitrarily punishing me, or setting me up so that I fail and deserve punishment but I know that our relationship is unique to us.
Just as every relationship is unique to those involved.

From a beginner point of view it can be frustrating that there are no hard and fast rules, but it really is up to the individuals involved.
If you for example detest pain, then being with someone who won't push pain on your would be a better match IMO. Or if you get off on pain, love pain then someone who is into that would be a better match.

I hope that made sense to you.



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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:12:18 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		In 7 months I have had to punish metalmiss TWICE... she is a good girl and rarely crosses the lines I have drawn or behaves other than I have taught her than I consider appropriate. A verbal 'warning shot' if her attitude slips a little is enough to bring her back on track.

If I want to indulge in BDSM play, I do so. I don't need to fabricate an excuse to do so under the pretence of it being punishment (Such I see as harmful to the girl anyhow as that is setting them up to fail.... or if they are being bratty to invoke it... then you are rewarding bad behaviour)...... Why do I do it... because I enjoy it and because I can.... However I happen to Own a maso, so it is something she enjoys too

But it isn't 'punishment'....It is BDSM impact play....... submission doesn't have to involve pain... it is an additional and oft enjoyed 'extra' to O/our relationship.


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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:13:31 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Back at the beginning though, I know I couldn't manage things as much as now... if that's any consolation.

But on some level, I always enjoyed what I was doing. It wasn't so much about the idea that I'd given everything to him. It was about the idea that this was one more thing I was turning over. And I came to the realization that for me, submission that's easy isn't submission. From that point on, I relished the struggle. It's just a thought.

But it is worthwhile to point out that D/s is not SM although the two can be intertwined. So yes, I'd say there are those out there for whom, D/s is the important part of things - not the SM. It just wasn't my experience.

juliet

juliet

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:13:51 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		submission is yielding power over to another; if people add pain and/or punishment to the mix, it's nothing more than a matter of personal preference.

(in reply to kittenpuss)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:15:59 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		It doesnt have to, but dont knock it if ya havent tried it. Erotic pain is suprising. I suggest an experiment. Get spanked, flogged or get a tatoo(if you have wanted one but been afaraid of the pain). Then check your pussy and see if its wet. If it is perhaps you should be willing to explore.

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:17:36 AM   
GabrielleSlave


Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline 		Sometimes submission can have very very nice consequences.... like being woken up in the middle of the night to serve Him - when He finally allows me to have an orgasm; i would not call that painful lol!



_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:18:36 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Pain does not really do it for me ... not like real pain ... a flogging where its essentially a bit of a brutal massage .. now thats nice .... one where it really fucking hurts ... that I am not so keen on
an exampled by the fact I will bounce a spanking bench across the room to avoid one - ask Sir .. He thinks its hilarious but it ruins His back swing
now emotional pain .... hooo hooo hooo ... thats a whole different ball game .. emotional torture, is delicious,

but punishment ... do you mean Punishment, like "You really fucked up, this type of behaviour damages our relationship, this behaviour will change now" ... or like "You .. Slut! ... is this cat hair on my shirt?! ... did you allow cat hair to stray onto my SHIRT!? ... have you, you miserable excuse of a house slave, actually DARED to put out a shirt for me to wear that has CAT HAIR ON IT!!!!!" .... because the first type ... IMHO ... the correction should not be related to play - I would not be able to focus on the lesson I was learning because I would be focussing on the pain

and the second one ... well thats just foreplay



_____________________________

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(in reply to Madame4a)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 6:49:46 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The short answer is yes, but the longer answer requires some more discussion.

1. What IS pain by your definition?  Would a spanking be "pain", or would it have to be a single-tail session to qualify?

2. What exactly does "relinquishing power" mean to you?  Does it mean that you would be a "service submissive" (one that performs household duties)?  Does it mean you will be sexually submissive?

Note that the more you offer, the easier you will find a compatible Dom.  There's nothing inherently wrong with taking pain (whatever you mean by that) off the table, but it may limit the field of Doms who are interested.  If nipple clamping and especially spanking are off the table, for example, I'm out.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 7:01:02 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		I think you are confusing masochism and submission.  They are entirely different orientations although they are often seen in the same person.  In math terms they are seperate domains, overlapping but not coterminous,

All you have to do is specify that you don't like pain and that should get the discussion going.  Don't use the word punishment because that is often used only in connection with misdeeds.  For example, I do not punish.  I do scenes that may leave my partner arched and screaming, but that's because we both want that, not because I'm trying to correct misbehavior.

Just try to be clear on what you want and look for someone whose needs and desires are complementary.

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to kittenpuss)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 7:58:14 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		 When you ask "what is it that is so appealing" I really don't know that there is a good answer. I tend to think that people who have an abolute requirement to inflict pain are often immature, wife beaters, bruisers, I agree with you that "technically" the control should be enough. But: there isn't any rulebook for these things. Neither punishment nor pain are necessarily "in the book".

So if that is what you are asking - if for you the most erotic thing is to relinquish control, then find a partner who goes for control. I can, from my own psyche, only tell you that it is the control I crave. I actually later on learned to inflict pain from a couple of subs who insisted, and I suppose consequentially found it erotic to use that as a tool to break down the sub's barriers. But that really does take a willing participant, and I think those who need to inflict pain on an unwilling participant are apt to cross a border that I think is risky to cross. Never take the wrong train, it won't get you there....

Hope that helps..

(in reply to kittenpuss)
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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 9:03:25 AM   
kinkypuppy2


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		Some just feed on the energys given when they tkae pain from a submissive/slave. Its an intoxicant.

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See nic "Kinkypupper" also as "slvseeker" As I cannot reply to any posts or log into collarchat under that name I had to create this profile.

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 11:15:51 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As said, submission and masochism ARE separation concepts, although the majority of people don't seem to get that and do not see the two as separate.  Keep looking, you'll find someone compatible.

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RE: Does submission always have to involve pain? - 6/8/2008 11:25:00 AM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		***You arent a pain slut and thats ok~

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittenpuss

So excuse the naviety of my question but I am just learning but what happens if you are a sub who finds the most erotic thing is to relenquish power and that's enough?

**** You arent a pain slut and thats ok.


You don't need to be punished in anyway as you've already given yourself in your entirety. All that punishment &  pain seems to do is detract you from your state?

**** You arent a pain slut and thats ok.


What is it about inflicting from a dom's point of view which is so appealing when you already have total power?

**** There are Sadists and masochists in this world, and thats ok.


_____________________________

There's never really a good time for the whole Man to Beast thing...Just kind of~Whaum! and hope for the best...
ToTo from The O.Z.

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