RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 5:05:31 PM)

quote:

and i dunno what the money would be needed for anyway; we just want to influence the government.



That's exactly what the money would be used for. The more money you have the easier it is to influence the government. Letters to our elected officials are great....but sending a lobbyist to personally talk to them....way more powerful. I say let's look into starting this group. I will help in any way that i can....can do research, recruit members, anything you need. I can't sit back and do nothing.....if i am going to bitch about it i am going to take action.

Peace,
cathy




onceburned -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 5:08:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
i dunno what the money would be needed for anyway; we just want to influence the government.


Please forgive my ignorance, but don't PACs mainly exert influence by donating money to political campaigns?




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 5:11:49 PM)

quote:

That's exactly what the money would be used for. The more money you have the easier it is to influence the government. Letters to our elected officials are great....but sending a lobbyist to personally talk to them....way more powerful. I say let's look into starting this group. I will help in any way that i can....can do research, recruit members, anything you need. I can't sit back and do nothing.....if i am going to bitch about it i am going to take action.

Peace,
cathy


Yeah, generally lobbyists are great; but we should consider going to DC ourselves and offering to testify. Or whatever. And we'd have one hell of a time getting any established lobbying firm to accept us as clients.

Before we begin setting any parameters, i think we need a few days to test the waters and see whether the interest is there.

pinkpleasures




JohnWarren -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 5:13:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem
The ACLU walked away fromt he Barbra Nike case, as did Barbra Nike herself. Not sure how the NCSF is still allowed to use her name.


Could you give me a cite on this. Last time I talked to Barbara, she was still involved in the suit.




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 5:54:59 PM)

quote:

Please forgive my ignorance, but don't PACs mainly exert influence by donating money to political campaigns?

onceburned


miss, i am not on a solid legal footing here. Federal campaigns; donations; influence; are not my background; i have limited myself to state activities. But i agree, a PAC may -- or may not -- facilitate what we'd be seeking to accomplish. For example, i dunno whether a PAC exists for Mothers Against Drunk Drivers.

pinkpleasures




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 8:15:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem
The ACLU walked away fromt he Barbra Nike case, as did Barbra Nike herself. Not sure how the NCSF is still allowed to use her name.


Could you give me a cite on this. Last time I talked to Barbara, she was still involved in the suit.


As far as I know that's what's going on as well. I saw her about a month and a half ago at the NCSF Coalition Partners meeting/party in Baltimore and we talked some about it then.




wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/30/2005 10:14:06 PM)

quote:

Yeah, generally lobbyists are great; but we should consider going to DC ourselves and offering to testify. Or whatever. And we'd have one hell of a time getting any established lobbying firm to accept us as clients.


Then we become lobbyists....mama always told me i could do anything i put my mind to. Besides who better to talk about it....people that are passionate about it.
As for waiting to see if there is interest......well, maybe we will have to create the interest. Educate people.
I am tired of losing the rights and freedoms that i thought i had....




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 8:26:29 AM)

quote:

quote:

Yeah, generally lobbyists are great; but we should consider going to DC ourselves and offering to testify. Or whatever. And we'd have one hell of a time getting any established lobbying firm to accept us as clients.

Then we become lobbyists....mama always told me i could do anything i put my mind to. Besides who better to talk about it....people that are passionate about it.
As for waiting to see if there is interest......well, maybe we will have to create the interest. Educate people.
I am tired of losing the rights and freedoms that i thought i had....

wipmebeetme100


kk; let's do it. We need a name for our organization; a web site; some cash to pay to incorporate it; etc. Send me an email with your YIM ID and we'll talk.

pinkpleasures




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 8:40:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
kk; let's do it. We need a name for our organization; a web site; some cash to pay to incorporate it; etc. Send me an email with your YIM ID and we'll talk.

pinkpleasures

Pink question- are you going to be willing to meet with the people you want to help in real life? Are you going to be willing to having business meetings with the people you want to start this venture with in real life?

Are you willing to meet real life people in your community so you can learn more about the issues and intricacies that the people with problems are dealing with?




nelbot -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 9:16:22 AM)

I friend wrote in his blog some poignant thoughts on the subject

quote:

10.13.05No censorship is good censorshipPosted in Society at 4:38 pm by RjZ

A friend highlighted me to the following:

Online erotica sites are being targeted for prosecution and obscenity thanks to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. I am hoping that my readers can fill me in as to what is going on here.

“News of [Red Rose Stories] closure comes just days after the offices of Max Hardcore’s Max World Entertainment were raided under the authority of the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Justice Department, and little more than a week after the FBI launched an anti-obscenity squad at the behest of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to increase obscenity prosecutions throughout the country.”

I don’t have any experience with these sites but my friend is a contributor and it is difficult for me to see how erotic stories without pictures could be hurtful to anyone. No one is forced to read this material; you have to click on it to get there. I’d never even heard of these sites even though I might have been quite interested in them, so it’s unlikely they’re well marketed.

The definition of pornography is often broad and perhaps impractical. The National Crime Prevention Council says pornography, n : any sexually explicit writing and/or picture intended to arouse sexual desire. Apparently most advertisements and music videos are pornography.

The fact is, censorship is almost always wrong. We must pursue and punish the perpetrators of crimes, particularly abhorrent crimes such as abusing a child, or anyone for that matter, for the purpose of creating pornography. We must pursue the perpetrators vigorously and punish them severely for we do not want to to encourage this abuse in our society. However, and here’s where I start losing readers, it doesn’t make sense to punish the consumers. If I have “dirty” pictures on my computer I haven’t hurt anyone. The damage was done by the creator of these images and not by me.

The argument goes that by cutting off the market for these materials we will deter the creation. So we censor the very possession of pornography in an effort to eliminate it. Unfortunately, market forces are nearly equally strong whether the activity is legal or not. The drug war is a perfect analog. Legislators have made a wide range of drugs illegal but there has been little correlation between these laws and the consumption of these drugs. Driving pornographers under ground has succeeded only in making it more difficult to catch the ones that are really abusing people.

Abusing people should be and is illegal. Writing an entertaining erotica story that is offensive to someone constitutes no abuse and cannot be illegal. I don’t like hearing Pat Buchanen rattle on about the homosexual agenda but he has a right to his opinion and some people even think he’s entertaining. Free speech, or better, protected speech, is not as clear as we often think. Indeed, obscenity has been addressed by the Supreme Court on multiple occasions and mostly it has failed to be “protected.” While this is currently the law of the land, I still can express that I do not agree with that interpretation.

The Roth test - from Roth v. U.S. (1957) defined obscenity as material calculated to debauch the minds and morals of those in whose hands it might fall. The impact upon the average person must be determined. The test is the effect of a whole work (not one picture or passage) on the average person applying contemporary community standards (not national standards) to determine if the work is without redeeming social importance or patently offensive.

While I can see how these sites satisfy Roth, I could as easily argue that they don’t. And that either way, deciding what “debauches the minds and morals” of individuals hardly seems like something we want our government doing for us.

I don’t know enough about the contents of either these closed down websites or even the law under which they are being prosecuted but if these articles could really be conceived to be causing harm, I can understand the action. Still, I doubt it. Ultimately, I am concerned about yet another example of this administration’s continued attempts to legislate morality.

I hope others can shed some light on this issue.

Permalink 2 Comments





JohnWarren -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 10:09:00 AM)


quote:

10.13.05No censorship is good censorshipPosted in Society at 4:38 pm by RjZ
The argument goes that by cutting off the market for these materials we will deter the creation. So we censor the very possession of pornography in an effort to eliminate it.


Possession of obscene materials in one's own home is protected under a decision by the USSC. All attacks on obscenity therefore must be on the creation and marketing.


quote:



The Roth test - from Roth v. U.S. (1957) defined obscenity as material calculated to debauch the minds and morals of those in whose hands it might fall. The impact upon the average person must be determined. The test is the effect of a whole work (not one picture or passage) on the average person applying contemporary community standards (not national standards) to determine if the work is without redeeming social importance or patently offensive.


The Roth test was superceeded by the Miller test and no longer has any legal force




mnottertail -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 10:10:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
kk; let's do it. We need a name for our organization; a web site; some cash to pay to incorporate it; etc. Send me an email with your YIM ID and we'll talk.
pinkpleasures




I vote for the name: Psychedelic Mophandle.

Ron




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 2:15:11 PM)

quote:

Pink question- are you going to be willing to meet with the people you want to help in real life? Are you going to be willing to having business meetings with the people you want to start this venture with in real life?

Are you willing to meet real life people in your community so you can learn more about the issues and intricacies that the people with problems are dealing with?

LuckyAlbatross


i am not well atm; and have no intentions of attending any events for Cleveland BDSM'ers until i feel better. There are some locals i have IM'd and hope to meet. Business meetings are probably not feasible face to face as we are not near one another, but we can certainly have other ways of communicating. As far as organizing the effort to oppose Bush, i think i have some political skills and will need a bit of research to translate them to the federal level, as i have said.

i lobbyied and wrote bills, and tracked legslation for almost 10 years; so i'm not ill-equipped in my opinion; and you never know; others have skils they want to contribute as well.

Are you considering joining up? Until we have a web site, anyone interessted can email me. Thank You all for caring...now...when we still have a chance.

pinkpleasures




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 2:22:05 PM)

quote:

I vote for the name: Psychedelic Mophandle.

Ron


Ron; we need a name for the web site that web crawlers will pick up. And once again, i must ask for a translation. Sorry to be a pest.

pinkpleasures




JohnWarren -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 2:35:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
]kk; let's do it. We need a name for our organization; a web site; some cash to pay to incorporate it; etc. Send me an email with your YIM ID and we'll talk.
pinkpleasures[/font][/size][/color]



I vote for the name: Psychedelic Mophandle.

Ron


Take into consideration you'll be contacting some very conservative lawmakers with your message. A frivilous name will give them just one more reason to ignore you.






pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 3:30:00 PM)

On reflection, i think we are best served by joining an existing organization; the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom or possibly the ACLU; and not beginning something from scratch.

pinkpleasures




wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 3:34:15 PM)

quote:

Take into consideration you'll be contacting some very conservative lawmakers with your message. A frivilous name will give them just one more reason to ignore you.


I agree. Keep in mind that going into this we are behind the eight ball. I have always enjoyed a challenge....but more importantly, someone needs to do something. And this is something that i feel strongly about. I can't sit back and do nothing while more and more of my rights are stripped away. I choose my wars wisely now...and prepare for the battle to the best of my ability.
What the government is doing is non-consensual....and why should we put up with that?

Peace,
cathy




wipmebeetme100 -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 3:42:01 PM)

quote:

On reflection, i think we are best served by joining an existing organization; the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom or possibly the ACLU; and not beginning something from scratch.


Do you honestly believe that they will put forth the effort that you would? Are they as passionate about this as you are? I think the most effective thing would be to form a seperate group whose soul purpose is focused on changing this current issue. The group can always align itself with either of those two organizations, partner with them. Utilize them in different ways...yet still have individuality.
I know it sounds like alot of hard work.....thats because it will be. Nothing worth fighting for is easy.


Peace,
cathy




mnottertail -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 3:47:30 PM)

To PP and JW,

I admit it was frivolous, but the point was.........
1. what could you call the group that would be like your borrowing Jays lawnmower; rather than something that that conjurs up images of the evil and depraved hellions that it will no matter what.

2. How does one go about explaining that this is normal behavior, when so many here are extremely uncomfortable about it. You know, the I'm gay....oh, no big deal. I am into BDSM...........oh, you horrid shit!!!!!!!!

How do we present ourselves as to borrow a moniker and a fitting one, The Ward and June Cleavers of the world. (which a great deal of us are).

3. As an inside joke of course, The Rack Pac would be in it. But it would be the sound of one hand clapping, wouldn't it?

Insofar as glueing to an existing coalition, one has to consider that we would be in the minority in such a way that we could only win positions by devious monte carlo analysis. That is; by playing one group off another (simplistically) and would take little or no presidence over larger factions that are probably more acceptable because they have been fighting this shit long enough (simply because of their earlier outcasting).

Do not mis-percieve (how's that PP? miscieve describes the same word in less keystrokes which I am not paid for nor the vacuuousness of which will exacerbate my carpal tunnel. LOL)

I was serious.
Ron




pinkpleasures -> RE: Protecting 1st Amendment Rights (10/31/2005 3:52:29 PM)

quote:

To PP and JW,

I admit it was frivolous, but the point was.........
1. what could you call the group that would be like your borrowing Jays lawnmower; rather than something that that conjurs up images of the evil and depraved hellions that it will no matter what.

2. How does one go about explaining that this is normal behavior, when so many here are extremely uncomfortable about it. You know, the I'm gay....oh, no big deal. I am into BDSM...........oh, you horrid shit!!!!!!!!

How do we present ourselves as to borrow a moniker and a fitting one, The Ward and June Cleavers of the world. (which a great deal of us are).

3. As an inside joke of course, The Rack Pac would be in it. But it would be the sound of one hand clapping, wouldn't it?

Insofar as glueing to an existing coalition, one has to consider that we would be in the minority in such a way that we could only win positions by devious monte carlo analysis. That is; by playing one group off another (simplistically) and would take little or no presidence over larger factions that are probably more acceptable because they have been fighting this shit long enough (simply because of their earlier outcasting).

Do not mis-percieve (how's that PP? miscieve describes the same word in less keystrokes which I am not paid for nor the vacuuousness of which will exacerbate my carpal tunnel. LOL)

I was serious.
Ron

_____________________________

"Schlau, aber nichts wahr" Albert Einstein


OK, i deeply apologise but i need a Ron - to -english dictionary.

*sigh*

pinkpleasures




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
2.929688E-02