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RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/14/2008 9:36:03 AM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline 		I'm the type that tries to anticipate Mistress's needs without "assuming"...if that makes any sense.  I offer my services to Her, especially for things I know She'll never ask me to do like assisting Her with Her homework, research, or things of the like.  For everyday things, She typically politely asks, "Would you mind.....", or "Could you please....."

You can be dominant, but still polite.  I'm happy to bend over backwards for Mistress, but it means a lot to me when She is polite.  It shows She respects me not only as a person, but also as Her pet.

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Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.


(in reply to MadameMarque)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/14/2008 2:55:54 PM   
MadameMarque


Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

[clip]

You can be dominant, but still polite.  I'm happy to bend over backwards for Mistress, but it means a lot to me when She is polite.  It shows She respects me not only as a person, but also as Her pet.


This is one of the points I want to make, about whether or not a mistress should be "polite," in the sense that one would be polite to someone not submissive to them.

A mistress might do all manner of things to her submissive - beat them, torture them, restrict their freedom, use them as their property, punish them, etc, etc - and while those who don't understand would call this hostile, abusive, and hateful, we would understand how she could do these things with love.  She may treat him or her as not her equal - as a servant, a pet, a toy, an object, her property, etc - and while this seems to show overt disrespect for her submissive as an equal, we would understand that she may, in truth, hold the submissive in high regard. 

Some dominants do and some do not respect and love their submissives, but their rough, harsh, or commanding treatment of the submissive is not, in the context of a BD-Ds-SM relationship, an automatic indication that the dominant disrespects or hates the submissive.

We understand this paradox, this seeming contradiction.

This is why I'm always surprised to see how people understand and accept some forms of domination and sadism and protest against other forms as disrespectful, out of control, unacceptable.  'You can beat me black and blue, but how dare you slap my face,' for example.

In the same way that a mistress and her submissive or slave have an understanding about her other behaviour, they may have an understanding about her taking a tone with the submissive that she would not take with anyone else.  She might be curt, commanding, empirious, cold, demanding, or mean.  Some submissives respond well to one or more of these.  They may like to be pressured or are excited by being addressed as someone under another's command.  If this is her style, when dominating, and if the submissive understands and feels it in the spirit in which it's given, then it works for them. 


(in reply to rubberpet)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/14/2008 3:06:34 PM   
MadameMarque


Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline 		[oops]

< Message edited by MadameMarque -- 6/14/2008 3:08:00 PM >

(in reply to MadameMarque)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/16/2008 10:30:35 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shewalksinbeauty

So I keep seeing the whole "My domme doesn't ask me to do things, she states it/demands it/requires it" etc popping up a lot in some of the threads here.

I'm wondering why dominant ladies would be disinclined to be polite and demand things in less unforgiving terms. I mean, on some level and in some relationships there is probably significance but the recurrence of it seems to be a lot more than I'd think. Especially when you are out in public.

Personally, I like to make my demands sound like requests, even when we're completely alone. Does it sound less domineering? Yes. But that doesn't mean that my sub is less inclined to listen. In fact, he's probably more receptive when I'm sweet about it than when I'm demanding just because he knows that I mean business either way.
 


I personally feel it is a mainstreamish mistake to assume harsh and arrogant demands are theatrics or only part of the supposedly superficial "Pro Domme" scene. People voicing such ideas perhaps show just how timid and passionless they really are about what they claim to believe in.

I think what most people are trying to address is the difference between domineering behavior vs. evolved dominant behavior. As with all things, we must consider the source. Is the so-called Mistress really embodying the essence of the word? Does She believe in Her power? Is She confident in it? Is She wise, intuitive, sophisticated? That is really where it's at, and if She is so, why should She say "please" when "asking" Her "slave" to fulfill a wish? The notion we must don these passingly pretty masks of common etiquette to communicate with our SLAVES or even submissives is nothing short of absurd, and smacks more of Women who are a little uneasy on their thrones, and men who aren't completely fulfilled in knowing the ones they serve should be there.

The entire point of having a servant—and even more a slave—is to be freed from the bonds of ordinary etiquette and social expectation. There is tremendous luxury in having the freedom to demand service and expect obedience with confidence and even arrogance (in my opinion, anything short is a traditional relationship with a twist of kink). And that the difficult math people seem to be unable to do; that a Woman can still be classy, feminine and charming all the while being harshly demanding and cruel.





< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 6/16/2008 11:29:02 AM >

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(in reply to Shewalksinbeauty)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/18/2008 6:41:14 AM   
MISTRESSKUMA


Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shewalksinbeauty

So I keep seeing the whole "My domme doesn't ask me to do things, she states it/demands it/requires it" etc popping up a lot in some of the threads here.

I'm wondering why dominant ladies would be disinclined to be polite and demand things in less unforgiving terms. I mean, on some level and in some relationships there is probably significance but the recurrence of it seems to be a lot more than I'd think. Especially when you are out in public.

Personally, I like to make my demands sound like requests, even when we're completely alone. Does it sound less domineering? Yes. But that doesn't mean that my sub is less inclined to listen. In fact, he's probably more receptive when I'm sweet about it than when I'm demanding just because he knows that I mean business either way.
 


I personally feel it is a mainstreamish mistake to assume harsh and arrogant demands are theatrics or only part of the supposedly superficial "Pro Domme" scene. People voicing such ideas perhaps show just how timid and passionless they really are about what they claim to believe in.

I think what most people are trying to address is the difference between domineering behavior vs. evolved dominant behavior. As with all things, we must consider the source. Is the so-called Mistress really embodying the essence of the word? Does She believe in Her power? Is She confident in it? Is She wise, intuitive, sophisticated? That is really where it's at, and if She is so, why should She say "please" when "asking" Her "slave" to fulfill a wish? The notion we must don these passingly pretty masks of common etiquette to communicate with our SLAVES or even submissives is nothing short of absurd, and smacks more of Women who are a little uneasy on their thrones, and men who aren't completely fulfilled in knowing the ones they serve should be there.

The entire point of having a servant—and even more a slave—is to be freed from the bonds of ordinary etiquette and social expectation. There is tremendous luxury in having the freedom to demand service and expect obedience with confidence and even arrogance (in my opinion, anything short is a traditional relationship with a twist of kink). And that the difficult math people seem to be unable to do; that a Woman can still be classy, feminine and charming all the while being harshly demanding and cruel.



OP, have to agree with this.

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/18/2008 8:07:02 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		Politeness in BDSM activities is over-rated.
Ordering subs around can be very hot.

(in reply to Shewalksinbeauty)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/18/2008 9:24:15 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I will convey a point using service as context because please and thank you are relevant in service. I do a seminar about service in which I discuss different archetypes for subs who enjoy providing service. One point from there is to understand from where comes the desire to serve or please. For those for whom the desire comes from enjoying a subordinate status, use of please and thank you is not important. For those for whom the desire comes from enjoying recognition and as a gesture of fondness, use of these words is more likely to be important. The same idea extends to dommes--from where comes the desire to enjoy service. The matter is more complex and is not black and white but this point is one of the key ones from that discussion.

To me, a general sense that I am well regarded is all that is needed. With a general sense of regard in place, the use of please and thank you is not important to me. In fact, my submissive mindspace is enhanced by commands given without these niceties, and with confidence as if the commands are a part of nature and must be followed.

This general sense of regard is important because it helps me feel better about my well being (someone who regards me well is more likely to take interest in my well being). Also, my intuition about what is unattractive behavior (tolerating disrespectful behavior can turn-off the other) is relevant in my expectations about being treated respectfully. Lastly, ego can play a role. Someone who sees subs or me as a lesser person (versus one who is voluntarily assuming a lesser status) can invoke the types of response all of us feel about self dignity and the like, especially if the desire to grant such a status to this person has not been fully established. I would like to add two points:

(1) These considerations become less relevant as a relationship grows forward.
(2) I could masochistically process the matter to get around the points about attractive behavior and ego in a relationship which does not provide a general sense of regard. I would see such a relationship to be vertical (based on D/s alone) versus one that is a broader relationship.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/18/2008 10:04:34 AM >

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/18/2008 10:18:24 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Being polite and using please and thank you versus not is like playing Simon Says.

"Simon says pick up your cup"

"Pick up your cup"

I am generally polite and say thank you but not always. Sometimes I'm just busy or tired or etc. If I play Simon Says though, it's a much clearer message. Even if no one but me understands what I'm blabbering on about at this point. If I take the trouble of deliberately being polite and sweet there's going to be a string at the end of it. The string could be something he will like or it could be something he won't like, depending on what's been happening.

Simon says I can throw the laundry in the dryer and get to bed now. :)


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(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/19/2008 2:57:08 AM   
kneelingnothing


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		Superior Mistress Dolly,
i perfectly agree. Being Classy, Elegant and Intelligent does not prevent a truely Dominant Woman from being Cruel, Arrogant ans Whimsical. In my humble opinion, i think an arrogant Lady is truely elegant, a cruel Lady really classy, a whimsical lady truely intelligent. A Dominant Lady just the most attractive. You embody all that in a terrific way!!

Mistress Dolly rules,
little slave kneels

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/19/2008 6:54:59 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I'm polite, and like others, I phrase in as a request but make sure the know up front that my "requests" actually me "right now". I use please and thank you and I'm very liberal with praise. And like Jay said, that also makes the more stern voice and look very effective. I've tried the harsh, demanding thing... not only is it too tiring, but it isn't me.
 
Jewel

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(in reply to kneelingnothing)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/20/2008 10:19:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Sometimes if things are asked instead of ordered the sub may not know that this should be done immediately. "Could you clean the trash out of the car" doesn't sound like an emergency. They may not know you are going in twenty minutes to give a friend a ride and don't want them to see all the empty drinks containers. "Go and clean the car out now" is a more clear statement.

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(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/22/2008 9:38:39 AM   
droopy


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Politeness in BDSM activities is over-rated.
Ordering subs around can be very hot.
quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

I agree with you. if the sub is a switch or not submissive as some others it could make him/her think thay they have a choice and misinterpret the request, now this is of coruse highly individual.

< Message edited by droopy -- 6/22/2008 9:39:00 AM >

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/22/2008 9:41:09 AM   
droopy


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		I totally agree with you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sometimes if things are asked instead of ordered the sub may not know that this should be done immediately. "Could you clean the trash out of the car" doesn't sound like an emergency. They may not know you are going in twenty minutes to give a friend a ride and don't want them to see all the empty drinks containers. "Go and clean the car out now" is a more clear statement.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Politeness and Ordering around subs - 6/22/2008 3:32:38 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Politeness in BDSM activities is over-rated.
Ordering subs around can be very hot.


AMEN. 

I recently went shopping w/manthing.  As he tried on sportcoats and slacks I found myself ordering him around the store, 'sit in the chair a minute and try that out for rise'; 'no, not that one. color's all wrong',  'that looks like a Million Dollars! Turn Around for Me!', and 'be still, let me check the crotch for fit'.  I don't recall asking him 'please' to a single command, although the commands were in a kind of inflection that indicated a request to comply immediately.

Upon each directive he obediently sat, stood, froze, turned, walked to, walked fro, took off, put on, got prodded and poked and tweaked, allthewhile saying softly 'yes ma'am'.

I had a GRAND time, never gave one thought to what the salesman or store owner thought.  I only cared what manthing thought.

I can just imagine myself saying 'honeypie sweetybunch will you pleeeeeeeeze have a seat over here just one quick moment so we can see how these slacks fit when you sit down, pleeeeeze honeypie sweetybunch?'

Not.

Texas Maam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 6/22/2008 3:39:19 PM >

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(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 54
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