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Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 6:25:35 AM

esina

Posts: 21
Status: offline

What is the difference between a sub and a slave? im having problems here... i see myself as a naturally submissive person but i still want my own mind, free will etc.

Why is it when i speak to Doms here all get is to be told beg for their collar and training when i have said to them i dont want to be owned as i am still trying to understand the battle of consciences i have raging in me?

Any sincere advice, understanding and direction would greatly receive from anyone.

P.S. Sorry if this doesnt make much sense but am soooooo confused.

esina xxx

Post #: 1

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 6:34:30 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

if you do not wish to GIVE UP TOTAL control then you are not a slave.

subs have choices...

slave do what their master wishes

keep looking you will find a compatable one

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 10/30/2005 6:37:14 AM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 2

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 6:43:21 AM

Prunesquallor

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

As a submissive you should be able to express your feelings and have safe limits. As a slave you would be prepared to hand all your individuality over to a Master and have him control every aspect of your life.

Having said that, those are my definitions, and you will probably find a different set of definitions for everybody here. :)

At this stage you are tentatively dipping a toe in the water, and clearly any potential Dom/me should be aware of that and be prepared to accommodate you. Any Dom/me who ignores your profile and is not interested in how you feel is a poor Dom/me in my opinion.

You are entitled to negotiate any potential relationship, and until you are owned, you are entitled to treat any potential owner as a vanilla acquaintance, question, contradict and be a general pain in the bum. However, once you make the decision to make that person your owner, you hand over some of your autonomy to them, and the form the relationship takes is dependent on what you have negotiated beforehand.

Certainly, in any BDSM relationship, you will be expected to give up some of that 'free will'.

Bear in mind that like any chat room, a large proportion of the people here will be idiots. You will have to sort through a lot of the chaff to find a grain of wheat. Best of luck in your quest. :)

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 3

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:07:50 AM

esina

Posts: 21
Status: offline

Thanks for the advice!!! You have cleared things a bit for me..... was getting sooo confused at the "you will call ME Master and do as I tell you" thing.

I know im not ready for the whole being owned thing yet .... i know i need to take small steps and as You have eloquently put it 'tentatively dipping a toe in the water' i just wish the idiots would leave me alone to do my 'toe - dipping' when im ready to swim all and sundry will know about it lol

Anyway thanx again and any more titbit of advice are always welcomed.

esina xxxxxx

(in reply to Prunesquallor)

Post #: 4

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:08:38 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Links on Submissive vs Slave Discussions

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 5

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:10:04 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: esina

Thanks for the advice!!! You have cleared things a bit for me..... was getting sooo confused at the "you will call ME Master and do as I tell you" thing.

I know im not ready for the whole being owned thing yet .... i know i need to take small steps and as You have eloquently put it 'tentatively dipping a toe in the water' i just wish the idiots would leave me alone to do my 'toe - dipping' when im ready to swim all and sundry will know about it lol

Anyway thanx again and any more titbit of advice are always welcomed.

esina xxxxxx

Hey Esina, this is no different than vanilla life- they can't change you or do anything with you until you say it's ok (except in the case of psychos, which are just as prevalent in vanilla world as they are in bdsm). Just remember your delete key, remember you are a responsible mature adult, and this is just figuring out what works for you.

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 6

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:23:42 AM

subspaceinMD

Posts: 42
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

You are entitled to negotiate any potential relationship, and until you are owned, you are entitled to treat any potential owner as a vanilla acquaintance, question, contradict and be a general pain in the bum. However, once you make the decision to make that person your owner, you hand over some of your autonomy to them, and the form the relationship takes is dependent on what you have negotiated beforehand.

i understand what You are saying, and completely agree. However it is very hard to converse with a Dom and treat them as you would a vanilla person. i have a very hard time when meeting someone in this lifestyle (a Dominant) a treating them as a vanilla person. you are potentially meeting someone that you will submit to. How do you treat them as any normal person. for example i have a very sarcastic sense of humor, would i show that to a Dom? i feel like i wouldnt want to make them mad?

(in reply to Prunesquallor)

Post #: 7

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:28:01 AM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline

Always remember that respect for you is the thing esina by you and by those that you talk to and keep caution utmost in your mind at all times.
Here is a site that may be of some help to you we know there is a lot of reading here and a lot is heavy going but time is something we all have and we can treasure.
http://www.sexuality.org/l/bdsm/
You will have to type it into your search engin as we are not sure how to get it so you can just click on it sorry

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 8

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:37:10 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

esina, there are some right dick heads out there and in here too. They are predators who will try to take advantage of your newwness. Still there is hope. Alread you have been given some damned good advice and here too you will find friends who are willing to help you. Just stick to your guns and move slowley.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MissDiandSirHugh)

Post #: 9

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 7:49:30 AM

Kasia

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceinMD
for example i have a very sarcastic sense of humor, would i show that to a Dom?

Why not? Better show it now than let it slip in some less propriate situation. If my potential sub wouldnt show me all of himself, I would think he decieved me if some unexpected flaw popped up later on. Maybe some people like surprises like that, I dont. And btw, I love people with sense of humour, even if its sarcastic. Maybe there are others that do as well.

_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to subspaceinMD)

Post #: 10

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 8:36:25 AM

RexLongBeach

Posts: 58
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: esina

What is the difference between a sub and a slave? im having problems here... i see myself as a naturally submissive person but i still want my own mind, free will etc.

Why is it when i speak to Doms here all get is to be told beg for their collar and training when i have said to them i dont want to be owned as i am still trying to understand the battle of consciences i have raging in me?

I don't see what you're describing as a "sub vs. slave" issue. That's a definitional issue, and since there is no "official" definition of these terms that everyone agrees to, you can't really solve how Doms interface with you by resolving it.

What you're confronting is the fact that the masses of HNGs greatly outnumber the quality Dominants on this (and any other) site. Don't waste your time with folks who are not able to understand where you're at.

Consider the implications of being told to "beg for a collar." Is that demand consistent with authentic submission? Or is it consistent with someone seeking the fastest possible route to wank material?

Be patient, and find people who you can explore who and what you are with honesty and integrity. Don't settle for less.

Rex

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 11

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 11:24:19 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

You've really asked two questions here, I'll address each.

quote:

ORIGINAL: esina

What is the difference between a sub and a slave? im having problems here... i see myself as a naturally submissive person but i still want my own mind, free will etc.

People argue over this all the time and there are lots of personal definitions. Mine go something like this...

A slave surrenders her right to choose completely.... a submissive surrenders conditionally.
A slave engages in total power exchange... a submissive in limited power exchange
A slave still has a mind, can think, make decisions, but they accept that their Master's choice is final (even if they think he is wrong).
Its a difference by a matter of degrees... the degree to which they submit.

quote:

Why is it when i speak to Doms here all get is to be told beg for their collar and training when i have said to them i dont want to be owned as i am still trying to understand the battle of consciences i have raging in me?

Because they apparently don't care to understand what is going on with you and are only interested in what they want. Try finding someone who can see past the end of his nose.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 12

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 11:43:42 AM

esina

Posts: 21
Status: offline

MissDiandSir Hugh,

Thanx for the link!!! Reading and learning is my forte and You have been very helpful and encouraging, i thankYou both for this. Without people such as Yourselves i think i would be a very lost and vulnerable person. Thanx again,

esina xxx

(in reply to MissDiandSirHugh)

Post #: 13

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 11:47:24 AM

esina

Posts: 21
Status: offline

IronBear,

i have read many of Your posts You are an honest and kind Man i thank You for Your kind words they give me encouragement. i will indeed as You have said, 'stick to my guns and move slowly'. Thank Sir and be well.

esina xxx

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 14

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 11:56:24 AM

esina

Posts: 21
Status: offline

quote:

People argue over this all the time and there are lots of personal definitions. Mine go something like this...

A slave surrenders her right to choose completely.... a submissive surrenders conditionally.
A slave engages in total power exchange... a submissive in limited power exchange
A slave still has a mind, can think, make decisions, but they accept that their Master's choice is final (even if they think he is wrong).
Its a difference by a matter of degrees... the degree to which they submit.

Sir, thank you for Your clarity, while i do understand everyones definition is different it is good to see a clear starting point from which to work, i thank You for this.

quote]Because they apparently don't care to understand what is going on with you and are only interested in what they want. Try finding someone who can see past the end of his nose.

Again Sir, great words of advice, as i have said in previous posts i am definitely taking my time over this and will take the time to find the person i want to submit to. But thanx for taking the time time advise me in this it is greatly appreciated.

esina xxx

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 15

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 12:20:45 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: esina

Sir, thank you for Your clarity, while i do understand everyones definition is different it is good to see a clear starting point from which to work, i thank You for this.

Take it as food for thought and work out what works best for you. Here's something else to consider. Labels like slave, sub, dom, master, etc. are really only good in public forums like this when we're trying to communicate who we generally are or what we generally want. That is, if I say I am a master seeking a slave it can be assumed I am seeking a relationship where my partner surrenders completely to me. If someone says they are a sub seeking a dom it generally means they want a relationship with a more conditional form of submission. That's about all they're really good for. Once you get into an actual relationship you start really defining what it means... for each individual relationship that's a personal thing.

quote:

Again Sir, great words of advice, as i have said in previous posts i am definitely taking my time over this and will take the time to find the person i want to submit to. But thanx for taking the time time advise me in this it is greatly appreciated.

There's a whole other thread going on here about the importance of taking your time. One of the main points being is... people aren't always who they first seem. Then again, someone who is a selfish snot from the word go probably isn't going to improve.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 16

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 5:46:33 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Yo, any support to the subs giving nuggets of advice?

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 17

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 6:03:00 PM

Prunesquallor

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

esina,

Thinking about your situation, I feel the best thing you could do at this stage is to start attending local munches, and try to mix with people in the scene. That is the best way of both picking up the culture of BDSM and becoming known in your community.

I see from your profile that you are in Cambridge, but don't know whether that is Cambridge, Cambs. or Cambridge, Massachussetts! If it's the former then I hope I am allowed to recommend the suksbdsm group on Yahoo where, like here, you will be able to meet a friendly bunch of people and learn more about the lifestyle.

You may well be surprised at how quickly you adjust to it all. :)

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 18

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 6:05:57 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

A slave surrenders her right to choose completely.... a submissive surrenders conditionally.
A slave engages in total power exchange... a submissive in limited power exchange
A slave still has a mind, can think, make decisions, but they accept that their Master's choice is final (even if they think he is wrong).
Its a difference by a matter of degrees... the degree to which they submit.

My submission includes all of these things and I don't submit conditionally......and I'm a submissive not a slave. I am owned, in a 24/7, no limit D/s relationship. So, these definitions don't fit.

I would like to point out that it really seems that the whole slave/sub debate has really come up somewhat recently. 11 years ago when I started this lifestyle, they were pretty much considered one and the same in our area. People put far too much weight on the whole debate. Define yourself and be happy with it, rather than living by what someone else tells you.

As you can see by the above statements, a lot of people's definition of a submissive does not fit the life I lead. I choose the defining point to be the amount of autonomy I have, while some choose to believe that a slave's submission is more than a submissives.

You will find your own comfort zone and don't let the non-existent rule bookget you down.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 19

RE: Help!!!!! So lost here - 10/30/2005 8:43:30 PM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: esina

What is the difference between a sub and a slave? im having problems here... i see myself as a naturally submissive person but i still want my own mind, free will etc.

esina xxx

Nothing wrong with having your own mind, but what makes you think 'free will' exists?

_____________________________

Citizen Cane

If silence is golden, why is duct tape silver?

(in reply to esina)

Post #: 20

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