D/s Groups & the Dilemma

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pinksugarsub -> D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 3:25:54 AM)
i just joined the Yahoo Group for a D/s group in Akron, about an hour away. i've been reading their daily email notices about upcoming events. It's dawned on me i may never attend one of their events. (This is the dilemma part.) The picnic in July? Nope -- can't afford the gas or depend on my car to get me there. Car pooling with another member? Nope -- i don't feel comfortable getting in a car with a stranger. The knife play demo? Not just no, but hell no. The monthly dinner before the dungeon party? i had thought this would be okay. Then i realised i have no intention of ever going to the dungeon, especially unaccompanied (and still have the same travel barriers). Word of mouth from current and former members has let me 'peek' into two other D/s groups. Both of them have had schisms that were quite nasty. Apparently there's a recurring problem with power struggles and the like. Makes me wonder if this is a tendency of D/s groups generally. i don't want anything to do with such conflicts. For S/some P/pl on these boards, it's an article of faith that joining a D/s group and attending dungeon or play parties is a prerequisite for 'being real'. Apparently there's a belief that unless O/one has group experiences, T/they have no hope of ever forming a satisfying D/s relationship. i'm not too sure what the connection is. Yes, i'd meet more Doms to date, but i have enough of Them already. Yes, i'd have D/s F/friends -- but i already have some terrific O/ones. And yes, i'd get to observe some forms of play i might not think i'd like -- but i kinda thought part of a new relationship with a Dom would include learning about different kinds of play. Voyeurism isn't one of my kinks; in fact it's a limit -- maybe a hard limit. i'm not sure yet. A/anyone else ever been wishy-washy about joining a D/s group? Can Y/you tell me why? pinksugarsub

mistoferin -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 3:44:52 AM)
If that is how you feel, why did you bother to sign on to their group?

Aileen1968 -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 3:47:01 AM)
I don't go to bdsm social events because of the wishy washy people that belong.

RCdc -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 3:59:29 AM)
My advice - coz I am an advocate of going to groups - but not because it makes anyone anymore real but simply for the social side and to explore. The knife play is one example. You don't like it - but why? Are you expecting blood everywhere? Are your expectations unrealistic on what the knife play involves. If you do not ask, you will not know and if you do not attend at least once, you won't know either. Second thought - why are you listening to the gossip of others? CM for exampe, doesn't allow blacklisting of people and groups - so why are you allowing other people judgements cloud yours? You aren't 'peeking' into the group, you are listening to pointless gossip and second hand info. Anyone who is a good friend would not try and make you have negative thoughts about someone or something you haven't attended and would advise you find out yourself. Don't be afraid because of unfounded assumptions, don't place unreasonable expectations on a group or person, and don't listen to gossip or heresay. In other (shorter) words - Be brave. Don't second guess. Don't be a gossip. the.dark.

eyesopened -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:04:51 AM)
i can understand your apprehension in going to events alone, travel, gas prices, etc. i am not a 'group' person myself. Now, were i live, going to a munch is NOT going to bring me in contact with potential partners but it does help to develop a broader understanding of WIITWD. For example you say about a knife play demo...not just no but *hell* no.... But why is that? You may have some preconceived idea of what knife play is, but by attending the demo you may learn that it is something altogether different. i have no real interest in single-tails but i attended a single-tail demo and was so happy i did! i learned so much! i learned that by changing the material, length, and thickness of the 'cracker' that a single tail can be a loud popping massage rather than a skin-ripping torture. i learned that with practice, a whip can be thrown as a mind-fuck.... the precision of the throw can land just short of the skin for a wonderful mental torture. i would have never thought of that had i not taken the time to attend the demonstration. For that which is truely important, time and money will be found. If you don't believe the group offers enough education and fellowship to be important to your growth, then you will never find the time nor the money. However, i think it is really wrong for anyone to suggest that group membership or dungeon play is necessary to be "real".

KatyLied -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:14:50 AM)
I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups. From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me. If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events. And some of the behavior is tacky. If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks. I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts. I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch.

RavenMuse -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:26:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch. Just because you found that sort of behaviour at one, don't assume that goes on everywhere. I have been to a large number of munches over here in London and not once encountered that kind of behaviour. Maybe We are simply more civilised over this side of the pond [;)]

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:27:12 AM)
Pink, Have you considered that perhaps you are letting fear get the best of you, and that it robbing you of the opportunity to grow. I'm going to be bold and blunt here. I'm reading a lot of things in your OP that really appear to nothing more then excuses, for you to maintain or justify your own fears. I can totally understand you not wanting to get into a car with a complete stranger, however other submissives drive as well. I'm certain the group is somewhat understanding of this being an issue. They have probally dealt with it before. In terms of Gas. Yes, it's costly these days. But how much money are you really looking at to get you about an hour drive up and back again. I'm certain you could foresake something else in your budget to make room for it. Just takes little planing if you really wanted to go. If there is a will, there is a way. In regards to knife play, again, I see you holding onto some preception or fear. That's the very reason why they are having a demo. Knife play is an activitity that is highly misunderstood. Does not mean somebody is going to try carving you up like a turkey. Many people play with knifes without drawing one drop of blood. The sensation of the blade against the skin is pretty awesome. Even more so considering steel holds temperatures. In regards to groups having schisms, this happens with any groups. Even your local churches and church groups, town hall meetings, political party meetings. Even the local PTA groups at schools. The fact is that people don't aways see eye to eye, and people love to bitch and complain to everybody else about how much like crap things are being run or done. It's really no different when it comes to BDSM groups. You can simply attend a groups functions, or join a group. If you don't like it, you can simple walk away at any time. You are not making a lifetime commitment when you join a group or go to any of these group functions. Find out first hand if the group is or is not right for you. Again, I honestly see your own fear being the source of your own wishy washy thinking on this matter. You are trying to talk yourself out of exploring these things using fear in your rationalizations. At least this is what I'm seeing in your OP.

mistoferin -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:28:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups. From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me. If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events. And some of the behavior is tacky. If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks. I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts. I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch. Katy, in my experience, that is definitely not "typical" munch behavior. I have been to hundreds of munches and I can count on one hand the times I have felt like "fresh meat". I have also never been topless in a restaurant...never seen anyone else topless in a restaurant...and never seen anyone charging money for a peek at any of their body parts. Maybe you just got really unlucky both times....but that is definitely NOT typical munch behavior.

DMFParadox -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:29:38 AM)
WOW no Katy, I don't see THAT kinda crap often. But then, it reinforces my personal opinion. Right... um... munches suck? At least for the under 40 crowd. 'events' worth going to usually get tied (haha) to the nightclubbing scene. A.k.a. the purty party peeps. These people do NOT advertise unless it costs an arm, leg, or just lots of money to attend. Because they can... the groups get inbred, if they're on Yahoo groups it's usually the beginning of the end of worthiness sadly. Not all of them, but of what I've seen in 2 states. The MAJOR events are different, statewide cons etc. are hoppin yo... I still check them out, especially if they happen at a favorite bar on a day I'm not working within 2 miles. But those suck too, it's just a reason to get out of the house and play pool. I am not into proper inglesh taday. fark off if you can't parse it.

eyesopened -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:32:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups. From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me. If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events. And some of the behavior is tacky. If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks. I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts. I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch. Katy, in my experience, that is definitely not "typical" munch behavior. I have been to hundreds of munches and I can count on one hand the times I have felt like "fresh meat". I have also never been topless in a restaurant...never seen anyone else topless in a restaurant...and never seen anyone charging money for a peek at any of their body parts. Maybe you just got really unlucky both times....but that is definitely NOT typical munch behavior. mistoferin i agree... i have never seen the "fresh meat" attitude, never been to a topless bar or restaurant, never seen anyone topless unless it was necessary to the demonstration, never had the kind of experiences KatyLied has had. i don't think that is typical of munch groups in general.

RCdc -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 4:36:20 AM)
I have never attended a munch where that has occured. And if I was helping out or co-ordinating one and that happened, they would politely be asked to cease or leave. Seriously never seen that shit happen. the.dark.

KatyLied -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:10:10 AM)
It was in the basement of a family restaurant. They stood a guy outside the door so that no one would walk in. A submissive offered to take off her shirt and walk around the table and sit topless at her seat for the meal. They literally passed around a hat for people to put $1.00 in. I was surprised, like I said I didn't know this was typical behavior. I was one of two new people attending. After the munch a few people approached me and apologized and tried to explain that "this is not what usually goes on here, this isn't what we are all about." yeah, right. With the other group I joined the yahoo list serve in order to get info about their munch. One member started sending me offers for OTK spankings. Unfortunately he didn't realize that what he thought were private yahoo emails to me were actually being broadcast to every subscriber on the list serve, thus my opinion of "fresh meat" for the group. I thought it was sort of amusing, but the other members were mortified by it. There is a way around all of this though and I found it worked for me. I struck up friendships with some submissives on collarme and we met for lunch or dinner and would get together and talk. That was more beneficial that offers of OTK spankings and viewing a stranger's breasts [:)]

Wolfandkitten -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:17:51 AM)
To the OP: IMHO , I have to agree...sounds like you are making excuses and letting your own fears get in the way....which... is fine if you really don't have any intentions of furthering your knowledge of a life style that you belong to. To Katy as well: Although I have neve attended any munches, I have read alot of info on a few of the ones that happen in my area. I have to say ....I have NEVER read anything even close to what you were describing...in fact the allure of most of the munches around here is the fact that the intention is to appear as vanilla as possible for a more comfortable environment. As far as needing to belong to a group to be real... Im not a proponant of "the group thing", but I also do not believe that you have to belong to one to be real either. To most people I would probably not be considered a "real" Dom, because we dont live 24/7 and kitten has her own rights, thoughts, and decisions....but ask me if I give a flying fornication about that...... I am Dom to kitten when it is our playtime and that is what is most important to me, and what make me real. Wolf

Madame4a -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:19:02 AM)
That isn't typical behavior at a munch -- I've been to several over the years and never heard or seen anything like that. I'd also be surprised if that were 'required' of you... quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I've gone to two munches offered by two different groups. From both of those experiences I learned that attending munches is definitely not for me. If you think there is a "fresh meat" thing going on on-line, it's much worse at real time events. And some of the behavior is tacky. If that is what you have to do to be considered real, I say no thanks. I'm not in to sitting topless at a restaurant and charging other munch members $1/person for a peek at my breasts. I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch.

pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:33:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark My advice - coz I am an advocate of going to groups - but not because it makes anyone anymore real but simply for the social side and to explore. The knife play is one example. You don't like it - but why? Are you expecting blood everywhere? Are your expectations unrealistic on what the knife play involves. If you do not ask, you will not know and if you do not attend at least once, you won't know either. Second thought - why are you listening to the gossip of others? CM for exampe, doesn't allow blacklisting of people and groups - so why are you allowing other people judgements cloud yours? You aren't 'peeking' into the group, you are listening to pointless gossip and second hand info. Anyone who is a good friend would not try and make you have negative thoughts about someone or something you haven't attended and would advise you find out yourself. Don't be afraid because of unfounded assumptions, don't place unreasonable expectations on a group or person, and don't listen to gossip or heresay. In other (shorter) words - Be brave. Don't second guess. Don't be a gossip. the.dark. Yanno it's funny you should say that about gossip. In one case, i received WAY TMI from a varierty of P/pl, and found myself wondering how in the hell all of it could have happened. Possible...but...not likely. In both cases, the 'gossip' came from P/pl i have never met in real life -- including one Dom who lives nearby, but could never seem to find 30 minutes to grab a cup of coffee and meet in r/l. i guess i'm getting jaded. i had 'made friends' with these P/pl; T/they had both my YIM nick and my phone #. But after i was inundated with stories, i began to wonder if A/anyone was at all as i had thought. i certainly wondered if anything really happened, or if this was just some sort of group brain fart. Yr right about the knife play: it scares me shtless. i guess it's just another kink i need to learn more about. i thought it involved cutting the submissive, making intricate patterns in the process. Nothing deep, but still, it squorked me out. i'll give some more thought to the travel issue -- i'm resourceful. Thanks, dark hugs* pinksugarsub [sm=hearts.gif][sm=hearts.gif]

pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:37:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I didn't even realize this was typical munch behavior until I attended a munch. Just because you found that sort of behaviour at one, don't assume that goes on everywhere. I have been to a large number of munches over here in London and not once encountered that kind of behaviour. Maybe We are simply more civilised over this side of the pond [;)] LMAO. You snob, Raven Sir. hugs pinksugarsub

GreedyTop -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:41:21 AM)
You're thinking of 'cutting', pink. Knife play CAN involve cutting, but typically doesn't.

pinksugarsub -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:47:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark I have never attended a munch where that has occured. And if I was helping out or co-ordinating one and that happened, they would politely be asked to cease or leave. Seriously never seen that shit happen. the.dark. i do have fears about going. In r/l i can be shy; i've never gone to a movie alone, for example. i'm afraid T/they'll turn out to be so extreme i can't relate to any of T/them. i'm afraid T/they'll ignore me. i'm afraid i'll be the center of attention. i'm afraid some sadistic Dom will take a shine to me, and i won't be able to shake Him. One thing i am not afraid of, though, is walking in and finding T/them doing s'thing -- like asking submissives to take off their shirts -- that i wouldn't put up with. My legs work just fine; if that happened i'd just turn around and leave. No biggie. pinksugarsub

StrangerThan -> RE: D/s Groups & the Dilemma (6/11/2008 5:50:21 AM)
There is nothing about groups or clubs that make you real or not real. Anyone who states otherwise is simply full of shit. It's their opinion and we all know what opinions are like. What groups and clubs are good for, is what someone noted above, the socialization and the learning. That doesn't mean you have to be a card carrying member and attend every function. It doesn't mean you have to play. It doesn't mean you even really have to be involved with anything. Good places will have good structure. Good structure means the option to participate is there if you want it, not if you don't. And if you don't, don't. Exercising that choice doesn't make you less of a submissive or a less of a Dominant. It makes you human. Choose what you involve yourself in. Don't let others do it for you. But certainly take the time to at least look. No harm, no foul, and if you walk away knowing hell no, well then you've solved one riddle in life and the next time someone says, why not? You can tell them exactly why not. As far as power struggles go, avoid them. No one needs that kind of drama in life and places where people struggle to control everyone else are places that, at least from what I've seen, tend to breed drama. But don't fall into the trap of letting someone else tell you that you're not real because you're not carrying a membership from some group somewhere.

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