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The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 7:22:15 AM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I was, recently, complimented on a scene I performed with my girl...the problem is, both she and I still have issues with this particular scene and I would like some input from others who have had similar experiences. Here is what happened...

We have often discussed fantasy rape scenes and how they'd happen. My girl lives alone (for now) in the Bronx. I had travelled out for Christmas and decided to surprise her with just that. As she arrived home, I hid and waited for her to pass by. As soon as she did, I stepped out, grabbed her and took her into the bedroom where I blindfolded and gagged her. I did talk quite a bit, and she says that, even then, she knew it was me. I did what I had to do and "the rapist left". I waited a few minutes and "came home". She was crying and in a panic. She felt she didn't know me and didn't "fell safe" with me in the house. Over the next few hours she asked me to go to a hotel or go home. After LOTS of talk we settled things down and are still together, but this is always a scare in both our minds. I almost lost her that day and she feels like there's a much darker side to me that still lurks in the shadows. Much of the problem with this scene is the very cause of the compliment I received...it was Christmas Eve...we were to go to her mothers for dinner (Italian family...they do big dinner on Xmas Eve)...we were to go to midnight mass...and then exchange gifts. We were told that this was perfect...no warning, no preparation, total disregard for other plans...all made it more "real". He was also quite impressed that we managed to do such a heavy "edgy" scene and remain together and not be totally damaged.

For those that have done scenes like this, have you had these reprecussions? How did you handle them? Are you still dealing with the reprecussions? Any advice as to what more I/we can do to continue to work through this?
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:53:08 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		How does she express her concerns?  Is she no longer able to trust you?  Trust herself?  Which lines of hers were actually crossed?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:00:35 AM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		She was scared and lost trust, at the time, because she lives alone in the Bronx. I've re-established much of the trust, but there IS still the fear of "the monster in the closet"...she says "she thought there was something wrong with me"...that I was "unstable" and she'd only just seen that side of me.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:17:37 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is a good example of watch what you ask for. I always tell people that fantsy and real are not the same. I can see where rape play could lead to a mental scar for a woman.    

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:41:17 AM   
SirKaton


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		My beloved has this fantasy as well (many women do actually).  I don't know if there is any real way to prepare for it becasue, as you have learned, the response isn't always what you expect.  I have not decided to fulfill this particular one for just this reason-some fantasies are better left as such, particularly when its aftermath might render a sub vulnerable to her own emotions in its wake.

Your aftercare is probably what saved your relationship (something I've seen many a Dom/me minimize, downplay neglect or outright ignore).  I think you are doing what you are doing is exactly what you need to do.   Be patient, understanding and willing to give her space to process it all in her time.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:42:04 AM   
wanderingstray


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		Discussing fantasies is great. Play rape is great. Fine so far. But what you did was actual rape because it was not play to her. It was your making the decision to go from fantasy to play without her consent. Had you got her consent to lay in wait and play rape her, it would have been play. The consent was not implied in the discussion of the possibility of playing rape. What was implied was that she was possibly interested in playing at it sometime. That expression of interest was not actual permission for you to do it. So now she doesn't know that you can be trusted not to just go and do anything that gets discussed as a fantasy. She cannot trust you with her fantasies, nor can she trust you to not do whatever pops into your head, since you have demonstrated that her consent is not required in order for you to act. Your misunderstanding led you to mistake what was real rape for play rape. Play to you, but real to her. That's going to be hard to sort out, especially if you fail to realize that what you did was not play, as she experienced it.

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:43:53 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		It probably never occurred to you to get her consent. Sheesh, waddamistakatomaka.. What a silly girl to be upset, yah, must be da Bronx, fer sure.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:47:00 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		I myself will engage in rape scenes, however only with somebody that actually knows me and is well aware that it's going to seem to them like they won't know me.  Why because I tend to play out Psycho rapist roles when I do rape scenes.  I give plenty of head ups about certain things well in advance.  This has not been an activity I rush into doing with somebody either.  I will only do this with somebody I trust and I'm pretty confident that they trust me.  This type of play can get rather extreme and edgy mentally.   The best way to avoid major reprecussions is a lot of prewarning and communication.  I don't pull any punches when I tell somebody if I were to act out a rape scene it will be mentally instense and that I will act like a friggen Evil Psycho bastard.  You will swear you won't know me.

This is a little different compared to when I engage in Forced Sex, which in itself is a form of playing out rape.   Mind you in either case, of forced sex or acting out a rape scene it can come as a bit of a suprise.  I have done rape scenes where it was planned out a head of time, so they were mentally prepared for it.

Like anything else a lot of talking and communication before hand and after the fact tends to resolve a lot of issues and problems.

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:03:42 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sometimes even when everything HAS been thoroughly negotiated and full consent given, the intensity of the scene may expose a "landmine" no one anticipated. Some fantasies will not play out for just anyone.

A person of whatever gender may have no memory of a trauma from their earlier life yet may find unexpected extreme reactions to something they thought would be great when thinking or talking about it.

I have seen this happen to others and have had it happen to me also.

The brain will sometimes block some bad memories, and sometimes that means we never got to process and heal from whatever it was.

In other cases there may be an element of trust that a partner feels has been broken. One partner may feel betrayed if I say no to something that they know I liked as a fantasy, another partner may lose trust if they feel limits were ignored or not respected.

Consensuality means that consent can be withdrawn, and it does NOT matter how into the scene others may be, if consent is withdrawn all play must stop.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:13:11 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quin

We have often discussed fantasy rape scenes and how they'd happen.

I did talk quite a bit, and she says that, even then, she knew it was me.


Well I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say that if you did it how it was discussed, that she had expressed approval of it when you discussed it, and further that she KNEW it was you, I don't know what she's bitchin' about and if I was one of her friends I'd tell her to stop the drama.  To not feel safe with you in the house?
GMAFB.

If you hit a bad spot that neither one of you knew existed, that is no one's fault, and she needs to talk it out and process it and get the fuck over it and stop blaming you.

ColdHeartedCali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:18:18 AM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Don't assume that I did not have consent. We are a Master/slave couple and had been together for nearly 3 years, at the time. We had fully discussed the consent issue. Part of our relationship is that I have blank-check consent in all things. That was not the issue. It was the lack of "warning", though, as the other person said, the scene would have been nowhere near as real or edgy if she did have warning. Yes, what I did was rape her...hence the reality of it...otherwise "it would have just been sex" (as the other put it).

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:28:29 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I think the fact that this was the introduction to the fantasy is the problem. You scared her, the fact that you were willing to do what you did was the scary part. It is a very brutal realization that she is yours to do with as you please, and in her mind and possibly in others, her well being might not be your top concern. You spoke, and she knew it was you this time. What happens if something similiar happens with an actual crimial and he doesnt speak, and she assumes you are taking it to another level?
You liked the realism, which was your goal. Part of that realism is her not feeling safe around you anymore. Part of it was her wanting you gone, for a time. That is the real reaction to forced sex, consentual or not.
The surprise of the scene is commendable, however I do not think she was quite ready for the surprise. With most extreme fantasy play, a smaller intro session usually lessens the outright horror. You might want to dismiss the idea of playing this way again, for a long while. She sawa  side of you that scared her, one that could have come up  in other playspace as well. Give her time to recouperate. She trusts you enough to stay, so eventually, when the initial shock wears back off she might feel differently.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:35:50 AM   
SirKaton


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quin

We have often discussed fantasy rape scenes and how they'd happen.

I did talk quite a bit, and she says that, even then, she knew it was me.


Well I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say that if you did it how it was discussed, that she had expressed approval of it when you discussed it, and further that she KNEW it was you, I don't know what she's bitchin' about and if I was one of her friends I'd tell her to stop the drama.  To not feel safe with you in the house?
GMAFB.

If you hit a bad spot that neither one of you knew existed, that is no one's fault, and she needs to talk it out and process it and get the fuck over it and stop blaming you.

ColdHeartedCali



Cali, I am with you on this considering this wasn't a "surprise" (other than when it actually happened).  They hit a rough spot that neither of them anticipated. 

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 10:40:34 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Personally, role play scenes hold little appeal to me unless they are part of a larger role playing activity such as a medieval court or feast in thich bondate , whipping and such were part of the deal. This does not mean that I would never take part but I'm the first to admit that such areas like play rape are virtually hard limits for me due to both personal and professional reasons (deal with far too much of the real stuff to want to play it). However being a role player (medieval groups) and other areas in which it was necessary to use assumed identies, I do know the value of planning, talking it over in depth with those involved, safty out areas such as safe words and the possible need for after care including helping those involved to become grounded after. On a personal basis I find I am unable not to keep regular personal reality checks and suggest to others that they learn to do the same. How all this would effect the entry and staying in sub space, I have no idea. Were I to enter into such play, I'd be winging it and erring on the sade of caution and safety..

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 11:02:24 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		This is proof that any non concentual thing that could harm someone, should be carefully considered in every respect before it is enacted in play.  When did you speak?  The fear you brought to her in those first moments is something that is feeding a fear that most women have when they live alone.  Someone coming at them from a hidden spot.  You showed her a vulnerable place in her armor she must have as a woman who lives alone. You most likely touched a place where few would dare to tread, but did and now... well... good luck with that.  You play with fire (fear), you just might get burned.

As for the compliment you got on the scene... yeah.. real nice... good work there... let's make it real and compliment someone and be amazed that after such a 'good' scene you are still together. lol A good scene shouldn't threaten a relationship.  Good for who?  And why should you care about how wonderful you look to someone else?  It is your girl you ought to be considering here and I wonder what worth she thinks the compliment was.  It takes a little imagination to enact a well thought out plan... indeed.  But it doesn't take much to enact a scene that ruins things. 

However, I do commend you on your aftercare!

Had it been me you stepped out of the corner at... you wouldn't be here to post.  I commend her on that one.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 11:56:58 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quin
there IS still the fear of "the monster in the closet"...she says "she thought there was something wrong with me"...that I was "unstable" and she'd only just seen that side of me.

Act trustworthy and stable. Talking only does so much.

If you tell her you will meet her somewhere at 2pm, show up at 1:59, not 2:01.  Remember her mother's birthday.  Kick your own ass hard enough that she knows that every single word you utter is something she can take to the bank.

Building trust doesn't occur via one big gesture.  It occurs from an unbroken pattern of small gestures.

If everything is as you describe, Cali is correct, and she does bear some responsibility for what happened.  As she has more time away from the trauma, it will be easier for her to accept this, and she will appreciate that you are busting your ass to be a trustworthy partner.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Quin)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:11:41 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
It is a very brutal realization that she is yours to do with as you please,


I would say its probably this, i would expect that many subs have experianced something similar, when their limit is pushed a bit or that they are able to push themselves there is a "oh shit im in deep now" i would imagine that would explain the intensity of the response especially as the scene would have been a very harsh realisation of this fact, I guess it comes down to how you both define your relationship with the consent issue which isnt really what I think the problem is, I think its with her and I think to make it better will involve communication and her accepting or redefining her role.

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Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:15:58 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		So what you're saying is that she sees this "unstable" side of you for the first time in THREE YEARS, and she suddenly doesn't feel safe with you in the house anymore?  C'mon.  My impression is immaturity and over-drama.

It's possible, from a psychological standpoint, that she put herself into the rape victim role so well, and that you were so convincing as the rapist, that maybe she realized she didn't like that loss of control and this is her way of taking back control of the situation. 

I personally don't feel that you should have to jump through a bunch of hoops to "earn" back her trust, if you've been in a relationship for three years and this is the first time something like this has ever happened.  Maybe a couple hoops, but I think she needs to grow up a little bit and accept her part of the responsibility for this incident, then put it behind her and move on.  If you hadn't known each other long and this happened, then yeah, it would have been a bad thing to do.  But three years, discussion and positive feelings beforehand?  She's over-reacting. IMO.

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You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:17:43 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Has she been raped before?  As in, for real?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to windchymes)
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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:28:45 PM   
TwoNYCDommes


Posts: 237
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2
I myself will engage in rape scenes, ....

This is a little different compared to when I engage in Forced Sex...


What are your definitions of "rape scene" and "forced sex"?

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)
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