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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:30:09 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
It is a very brutal realization that she is yours to do with as you please,


I would say its probably this, i would expect that many subs have experianced something similar, when their limit is pushed a bit or that they are able to push themselves there is a "oh shit im in deep now" i would imagine that would explain the intensity of the response especially as the scene would have been a very harsh realisation of this fact, I guess it comes down to how you both define your relationship with the consent issue which isnt really what I think the problem is, I think its with her and I think to make it better will involve communication and her accepting or redefining her role.


I agree with both of you.  There is a lot of fear here.  Fear of what could happen... that kind of did happen, but didn't and her place as submissive in the situation/relationship.  Only time with lots of showing who they each are and letting her know that she is safe with what she might now see as a darker side she didn't know about... which could simply be in her mind/fear base.  We do get close to a lot of deep emotions that we might not expect.  Something we weren't aware of deep inside.  I'd keep things simple, stable and very nurturing for a while.  What ever you would do to be or feel safe, do.  Only the people involved can know what that is.  Everyone makes mistakes, even if we don't realize it is a mistake to start with.  Sometimes even when we have thought it all out and tried to think about anything that could happen, something can happen.  It is what we do after that, that counts.  She is going to need to see deep within herself and figure out what the real cause of her pain is before it can really be healed.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 12:57:36 PM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Has she been raped before?  As in, for real?


No.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 2:10:05 PM   
laura2161


Posts: 254
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Duluth, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

So what you're saying is that she sees this "unstable" side of you for the first time in THREE YEARS, and she suddenly doesn't feel safe with you in the house anymore?  C'mon.  My impression is immaturity and over-drama.

It's possible, from a psychological standpoint, that she put herself into the rape victim role so well, and that you were so convincing as the rapist, that maybe she realized she didn't like that loss of control and this is her way of taking back control of the situation. 

I personally don't feel that you should have to jump through a bunch of hoops to "earn" back her trust, if you've been in a relationship for three years and this is the first time something like this has ever happened.  Maybe a couple hoops, but I think she needs to grow up a little bit and accept her part of the responsibility for this incident, then put it behind her and move on.  If you hadn't known each other long and this happened, then yeah, it would have been a bad thing to do.  But three years, discussion and positive feelings beforehand?  She's over-reacting. IMO.


I agree with everything above and couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't even try.


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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 4:14:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It is not uncommon for processing after a rape scene to take months. The other thing is that I would never have recommended you do this right before the stress of a big holiday family thing. Because she had to get up and pull it together, she lacked the time needed to cry it out for hours on end.

As far as whoever it was complimenting you, I'd ignore it. Sounds like he's more into scening and less into having a strong relationship. Since you're obviously the other way around, which I applaud, his compliments shouldn't matter much to you.

However should you ever decide to try a scene that edgy in the future, maybe she would benefit by not making it real the first time. Instead role play it, allowing her to stop it at any point and talk her fears through. Might take six months before you could do the whole thing, but safer for her.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 5:23:32 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I think the fact that this was the introduction to the fantasy is the problem. You scared her, the fact that you were willing to do what you did was the scary part. It is a very brutal realization that she is yours to do with as you please, and in her mind and possibly in others, her well being might not be your top concern. You spoke, and she knew it was you this time. What happens if something similiar happens with an actual crimial and he doesnt speak, and she assumes you are taking it to another level?
You liked the realism, which was your goal. Part of that realism is her not feeling safe around you anymore. Part of it was her wanting you gone, for a time. That is the real reaction to forced sex, consentual or not.
The surprise of the scene is commendable, however I do not think she was quite ready for the surprise. With most extreme fantasy play, a smaller intro session usually lessens the outright horror. You might want to dismiss the idea of playing this way again, for a long while. She sawa  side of you that scared her, one that could have come up  in other playspace as well. Give her time to recouperate. She trusts you enough to stay, so eventually, when the initial shock wears back off she might feel differently.

DV


Perfect.

I don't think anyone did anything wrong- and you handled it well once things went cockeyed.  A harsh but good lesson in getting what you say you want.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 7:18:48 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I test to see how someone can handle this first. I need to know how emotional they are goiung to get at having that sort of control taken, but not in a legally actionable way. So anyhow, I pulled this one out of my bag of tricks.

Sub bound on back on bondage table legs up in suspension cuffs. Belt holding her down just above the tits-wrist cuffs. Insert enema nozzle. Diaper thickly and cover with plastic pants.
 
 Tease for a little while and then pop the clip on the hose. Watch eyes go like this OO. See bulgy bag go flat.
 
 Unbind ,and allow to get up.  Note distended  sloshing belly. Smirk a bit when she runs for the bathroom-and hits the locked door. Mention during the humilitaing scenario that follows,the agreements made previously-that did not involve said bolting, dramatics and begging.
 
 During the shower wash down after all of above, ask "Are you SURE you can REALLY handle a rape scene? Seems to get the point across-and I doubt anyone is going to run to the cops about something like THAT.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/11/2008 7:20:58 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 7:51:50 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quin

Don't assume that I did not have consent. We are a Master/slave couple and had been together for nearly 3 years, at the time. We had fully discussed the consent issue. Part of our relationship is that I have blank-check consent in all things.


Just because you have a blank-check  Doesn't equate to write any amount onto that blank check.

someone said that aftercare saved your relationship...

I say a Lack of pre-care put your relationship in the troubled waters in the first place.


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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:08:35 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I test to see how someone can handle this first. I need to know how emotional they are goiung to get at having that sort of control taken, but not in a legally actionable way. So anyhow, I pulled this one out of my bag of tricks.

Sub bound on back on bondage table legs up in suspension cuffs. Belt holding her down just above the tits-wrist cuffs. Insert enema nozzle. Diaper thickly and cover with plastic pants.
 
 Tease for a little while and then pop the clip on the hose. Watch eyes go like this OO. See bulgy bag go flat.
 
 Unbind ,and allow to get up.  Note distended  sloshing belly. Smirk a bit when she runs for the bathroom-and hits the locked door. Mention during the humilitaing scenario that follows,the agreements made previously-that did not involve said bolting, dramatics and begging.
 
 During the shower wash down after all of above, ask "Are you SURE you can REALLY handle a rape scene? Seems to get the point across-and I doubt anyone is going to run to the cops about something like THAT.

I think it's short sighted to suggest something like that is equivalent in general to a rape scene.

Personally for me it has very little to do with the acts.  It's about the connection I have with that particular person.

Are there ways to get to know me so that you'll be pretty prepared and anticipate the likely consequences of doing a heavy NCC scene with me?  Yes.

Is doing some other kinky activity one of them?  No way.

I'm sure this worked well with some people in the past, but I don't recommend it as a rubric for people in general, and I think the methodology is definitely screwy.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:09:32 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I test to see how someone can handle this first. I need to know how emotional they are goiung to get at having that sort of control taken, but not in a legally actionable way. So anyhow, I pulled this one out of my bag of tricks.

Sub bound on back on bondage table legs up in suspension cuffs. Belt holding her down just above the tits-wrist cuffs. Insert enema nozzle. Diaper thickly and cover with plastic pants.
 
 Tease for a little while and then pop the clip on the hose. Watch eyes go like this OO. See bulgy bag go flat.
 
 Unbind ,and allow to get up.  Note distended  sloshing belly. Smirk a bit when she runs for the bathroom-and hits the locked door. Mention during the humilitaing scenario that follows,the agreements made previously-that did not involve said bolting, dramatics and begging.
 
 During the shower wash down after all of above, ask "Are you SURE you can REALLY handle a rape scene? Seems to get the point across-and I doubt anyone is going to run to the cops about something like THAT.

I think it's short sighted to suggest something like that is equivalent in general to a rape scene.

Personally for me it has very little to do with the acts.  It's about the connection I have with that particular person.

Are there ways to get to know me so that you'll be pretty prepared and anticipate the likely consequences of doing a heavy NCC scene with me?  Yes.

Is doing some other kinky activity one of them?  No way.

I'm sure this worked well with some people in the past, but I don't recommend it as a rubric for people in general, and I think the methodology is definitely screwy.


It worked with her.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:10:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I say a Lack of pre-care put your relationship in the troubled waters in the first place.

What pre care would you have suggested then?  Three years together, clear desire expressed to do this scene, done in the privacy of the house.  Would you claim to have a better record over all your years and NO bad scenes or fuck ups due to something no one could have reasonably forseen?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:13:53 PM   
RedMagic1


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Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
someone said that aftercare saved your relationship...

I say a Lack of pre-care put your relationship in the troubled waters in the first place.

This is absolutely true.  I didn't say it earlier, because I am still not sure what really happened.  We have the OP's side of the story, and what he said does not match up with the severity of the reaction.  The posters who have said if that's all that happened, then she should suck up and deal, are correct, if that's really all that happened.  I think it's more likely that the OP is missing something in his perception of the situation, but I'm not able to ask the right questions.  There's a cause/effect breakdown here, but I don't know where.


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(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:23:56 PM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I say a Lack of pre-care put your relationship in the troubled waters in the first place.

What pre care would you have suggested then?  Three years together, clear desire expressed to do this scene, done in the privacy of the house.  Would you claim to have a better record over all your years and NO bad scenes or fuck ups due to something no one could have reasonably forseen?

What she said. It's not the scene that is the problem. It's the fact that she lives alone in the Bronx, combined with the fact that we were suppose to go see her family afterwards and had no time to decompress, plus feeling like there was, possibly, something wrong with me mentally that caused the problem. She has stated, herself, that, in retrospect, the scene was hot and that she knows I was trying to give her a scene that she wanted...it's the timing that killed everything. It's the fear of something darker within me that I'm trying to deal with and asking about.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:31:45 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Think about it this way... do YOU fear something darker within yourself?
If there is nothing that this has awakened that might make you desire to be far more voilent than usual, then itll pass.
She is taking longer to decompress simply becasue she had to put it off. If she had been able to toss you out that night, and wrap herself in her blankets and work it out, things might have been dfferent now. However, she had to pull herself together and put on a happy face for family. It was bottled up and not its taking longer to get rid of.
My advice would be to let her talk about it as much as she needs to. Let her sleep separately from you for  alittle while if she has to. Dont demand she put aside the feelings, just remind her that they are responses to the scene and not to who you really are. Show her you are the same person after the fact that you were before and she will come back around. Kid gloves for a little while. When I had my first very intense scene with Angel, he shut down for a few weeks. I let him go, knowing he would come back when he was ready. You have to give her her time, without alienating her. Just play it by ear and see where she leads for a bit. Her location is going to amke this recovery longer, becasue she now has a real fear of something. If you were able to "abduct" her so easily, whats to say others cant?

DV



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(in reply to Quin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 8:32:09 PM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
someone said that aftercare saved your relationship...

I say a Lack of pre-care put your relationship in the troubled waters in the first place.

This is absolutely true.  I didn't say it earlier, because I am still not sure what really happened.  We have the OP's side of the story, and what he said does not match up with the severity of the reaction.  The posters who have said if that's all that happened, then she should suck up and deal, are correct, if that's really all that happened.  I think it's more likely that the OP is missing something in his perception of the situation, but I'm not able to ask the right questions.  There's a cause/effect breakdown here, but I don't know where.


Incorrect. This all happened in the space of 5 hours. She went to her mom's and said "we had a fight". There really wasn't any aftercare, per se. I just refused to leave because I knew it was just an initial reaction to a very intense scene. Yes, part of the fear continues, because, for at least 2 more months, she still lives alone. There's no cause/effect breakdown...it's just my own attempt to deal with the lingering undertones of apprehension she still has.

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:10:02 PM   
lostgirl83


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think a lot of people have fantasies that are really just that... Things they enjoy thinking and talking about but in reality its something they feel would be better left as a fantasy.

Maybe she talked about how hot it would be... how the two of you would enjoy it... but maybe she was just talking? Having it actually happen probably scared her a bit. That the only thing I can think of that would explain her reaction. Personally if I talk about that sort of thing I expect that it may happen eventually unless I say its something Im TOTALLY against. Im going to assume that you guys talked about it as more than just a fantasy (as in it may actually happen, and she should have been expecting it) and say that maybe you need to sit with her and clarify what she is/isn't comfortable with...

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RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/11/2008 9:50:55 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Well, maybe I'm befuddled by a lack of caffeine at the moment, but I'm missing the "possibility of a darker side" of you.  You talked about it, she agreed, you discussed how something like this would go down... and you did it.  Big whoop de doo. 

Taken at face value, she is overreacting and perhaps being a drama queen and transferring her fears (perhaps fears she cannot put a name to) onto YOU by saying she is afraid of this hidden dark side. That certainly would be easier than admitting, even to herself, that she got herself in deeper and into something she couldn't handle.

Now if you had dragged her bound and naked out to the sidewalk it might be a different story... there might be a darker side to you (but only if you had not discussed the dragging to the street part beforehand).

This kind of reminds me of a convo I'd had several times with a friend of mine about a certain illegal sexual activity... that the thought of it is fucking hot to both of us, and watching someone do it would be fucking hot, but to have someone you care about do it (in this case, his wife), well it might do very bad things to their relationship... because he believes, and probably rightly so, that the IDEA of it is hotter and better than the reality.  I have a feeling this is what happened to you and your girl... the IDEA of this turned out to be better than the reality, which she doesn't know how to handle, so she is doing the only thing she can think of, and that is to drum up this imaginary fear of your "darker side."  Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think she is doing it on purpose, but I do think she is doing it.

Cali


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/12/2008 6:08:54 AM   
Quin


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm a little puzzled by where people are getting the idea that she's somehow over-reacting. Yes, she's told me that she's scared by this "darker side" of me...that I made her think that I was somehow "unstable". We've moved past most of it, but there is a part of her that questions this, right now. The original question wasn't looking for why she feels this way, nor what went right or wrong. It was "For those that have done scenes like this, have you had these reprecussions? How did you handle them? Are you still dealing with the reprecussions? Any advice as to what more I/we can do to continue to work through this?". This is MY question...hence I'M the one still holding onto it. I'M trying to learn from others about what they did. I'm actually very proud of how we've handled this so far. I almost lost my perfect match and it scared the hell out of me that day, and I'm really getting tired of hearing how she's over-reacting when there was no such impression given.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/12/2008 9:11:10 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		People have made some very good points

Some fantasies should remain fantasies
Some fantasies require more work before they can become reality and that reality is often a fair bit different
The guy who complimented you may be a bigshot but you have a far better grasp of relationships than he does
Doing a heavy intense scene, about as intense as it gets on Christmas Day, a day you will not be able to spend LOTS of time reconnecting was a stupid mistake, but one usually only made once, you are now "experienced"!
Plus, you put her into a place where she feels vulnerable to rape.  Safety of one sort or another is something that us Dominants give to our partner, sometimes it is emotional safety, sometimes it is as out there as "safety from the submissives ability to manipulate men" but you definitely destroyed her feeling of physical safety. 

I have never done a hard core rape scene like you just did but I have fucked up others, shit happens.  What really matters is putting the pieces back together.  Before a scene like that you need to sit down and think out the emotional trajectory of where your partner is going to go emotionally and put in some sort of cushions for her and a place for a soft landing.  Someone like LA may need less of that, clearly your partner needed more.



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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/12/2008 9:26:08 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Cali july 5, 4pm back alley be ready. About this post. Mmmm   

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The reality of fantasy... - 6/12/2008 9:37:20 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Ray, I'll be ready (but do it a day early so I'm surprised and all).

OP, if you had all the answers you wouldn't be here. Instead of telling me that my impressions are wrong, perhaps you could think about it some more and see how my impression is possible.  The "identified problem" is not necessarily always the "real" problem.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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Profile   Post #: 40
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