"America's Medicated Army"

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Vendaval -> "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 2:30:13 PM)
"America's Medicated Army" Thursday, Jun. 05, 2008 By Mark Thompson "Data contained in the Army's fifth Mental Health Advisory Team report indicate that, according to an anonymous survey of U.S. troops taken last fall, about 12% of combat troops in Iraq and 17% of those in Afghanistan are taking prescription antidepressants or sleeping pills to help them cope. Escalating violence in Afghanistan and the more isolated mission have driven troops to rely more on medication there than in Iraq, military officials say. " http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1811858,00.html

TieNTeas -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 2:38:02 PM)
This reminds me of the recent article on military suicides. While the numbers were sad, it turned out that the suicide rate was lower for those on active duty than in the general population. So, does anyone know what percent of the general population take these medications?

PanthersMom -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 2:51:45 PM)
i'd say it's probably pretty close to the national average of people on some sort of antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. can't say as i blame them, i know i need my meds to function normally, i could just imagine what the conditions they're living in are doing to them. as for the suicide rates, of course they're going to lie, anything remotely resembling the truth makes them look bad. especially when the psych departments are told to find other diagnoses for PTSD. we got that straight from a therapist at the VA hospital where one of my loved ones was hospitalized after a suicide attempt. nice way to treat the people that serve our country. PM

DomAviator -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 3:04:56 PM)
Oh for gods sake. I spent the 91 gulf war whacked out on dextroamphetimines. (The legal / presecription version of "crystal meth") It made me sharper, more alert, more agressive, in fact I was downright paranoid and sadistic. (Which kept me alive and made me a better war fighter.) Get high to fly, then take ambien to sleep. All consistent with the following publication: http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/aviation/aeromedical/downloads/performancemanual.pdf So the troops are medicated, big deal - better performance through chemistry. This doesnt mean they are being abused or are coming apart - just that were pushing them to perform as far as chemistry can.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 3:18:44 PM)
Aviator, I'll have to disagree with you here. The military is a microsm of society as a whole, and we are way too medicated. In the last year I have dated 3 women with UM's. All of them had kids that were on some sort of medication for emotional problems. I have many friends that work in the education field, and they are schocked about how many of their kids are being fed pill cocktails. We prescribe pills for everything now a days. It's beyond ridiculous, and the long term implications aren't known. I think it's going to come back and bite us in the ass. The pharmaceutical companies and the food processing companies are feeding us chemicals 24 hours a day. Both lobby our government with billions of dollars. It's really scary to think of what's going on behind the scenes.

atursvcMaam -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 3:47:51 PM)
Ridalin (sp?) was the "keep the kids under control" drug when my UM's were in. when my son was in school, several teachers suggested he get checked for ADD because he asked good questions. We had him checked and the doc gave us a WTF response, if you want to dope him, then go ahead, but it isn't recommended or called for. i used to drink to sleep in the Army, but i did not have any Traumatic Stress. it just seemed like the thing to do.

Alumbrado -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 3:50:16 PM)
12 - 17%? And we were expecting what...that joining the military was supposed to cure people of these extremely prevalent ailments?

jlf1961 -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 4:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator So the troops are medicated, big deal - better performance through chemistry. This doesnt mean they are being abused or are coming apart - just that were pushing them to perform as far as chemistry can. Excuse me, antidepressants and sleeping pills are not performance inducing. Speaking from experience in 1983, Beruit, I had no desire to be so asleep that I would not be aware of what had just happened. The problem you are neglecting to see is that both the medications take the edge off, not enhance it. Trooper on the ground hazed on the afteraffects of sleeping pills or antidepresents is not one I would want watching my ass. Walking those 'peacekeeping' patrols kept us jumpy enough since the christian and muslim militias would shot at us AND each other. In fact, they fired all thier rounds at 'occupent,' meaning the occupent of any given space when the round passes through. Oh, and FYI, a British military study proved that keeping troops at the sharp end by using amphetimines leads to a higher suicide rate, unwarrented killing (i.e killing of unarmed civilians), and even murder of fellow soldiers. Amphetamines routinely lower the human emotional restraint against cruel and inhuman acts of violence, which, unless I am mistaken in what we are supposed to be doing in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is to put a stable and more humane government in power. If it is just to allow our troops to run up personal body counts and give them really good food for future nightmares, well then all I have pointed out is a moot point.

Alumbrado -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 4:29:50 PM)
Amphetamines, a big problem, yes. But there is nothing about adjusting serotonin re-uptake to alleviate depression that neccessarily 'takes the edge off'. Among those for whom it works, reports of increased clarity and better functioning are not uncommon.

philosophy -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 5:26:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado But there is nothing about adjusting serotonin re-uptake to alleviate depression that neccessarily 'takes the edge off'. Among those for whom it works, reports of increased clarity and better functioning are not uncommon. ......absolutely true, but it is worth noting that that happy group are not the majority and there is a significent minority for whom the drugs are appalingly bad. Study after study shows that various 'talking cures' are by far the most effective therapy. Problem is, in a world where technology and economics hold sway, talking cures lack the fire and forget quality that would make them economically viable for the mass population.

thornhappy -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/11/2008 5:30:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Oh for gods sake. I spent the 91 gulf war whacked out on dextroamphetimines. (The legal / presecription version of "crystal meth") It made me sharper, more alert, more agressive, in fact I was downright paranoid and sadistic. (Which kept me alive and made me a better war fighter.) Get high to fly, then take ambien to sleep. All consistent with the following publication: http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/aviation/aeromedical/downloads/performancemanual.pdf So the troops are medicated, big deal - better performance through chemistry. This doesnt mean they are being abused or are coming apart - just that were pushing them to perform as far as chemistry can. And how long a period were you on such drugs? A year? More? thornhappy

DomAviator -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 2:50:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Oh for gods sake. I spent the 91 gulf war whacked out on dextroamphetimines. (The legal / presecription version of "crystal meth") It made me sharper, more alert, more agressive, in fact I was downright paranoid and sadistic. (Which kept me alive and made me a better war fighter.) Get high to fly, then take ambien to sleep. All consistent with the following publication: http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/aviation/aeromedical/downloads/performancemanual.pdf So the troops are medicated, big deal - better performance through chemistry. This doesnt mean they are being abused or are coming apart - just that were pushing them to perform as far as chemistry can. And how long a period were you on such drugs? A year? More? thornhappy Only during "continuous flight ops" ie about a month...

meatcleaver -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 3:24:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Oh for gods sake. I spent the 91 gulf war whacked out on dextroamphetimines. (The legal / presecription version of "crystal meth") It made me sharper, more alert, more agressive, in fact I was downright paranoid and sadistic. (Which kept me alive and made me a better war fighter.) Get high to fly, then take ambien to sleep. All consistent with the following publication: The British and other NATO militaries have complained to the US about their gung-ho high as a kite pilots. As one British soldier put it, watching our backs for the American airforce is as much a survival tactic as watching out for the enemy. dexedrine Common Side Effects: (1) Nervousness. (2) Insomnia. (3) Loss of appetite. (4) Addiction. Less Common Side Effects: (1) High blood pressure. (2) Rapid pulse rate. (3) Tolerance (constant need to raise the dose). (4) Feelings of suspicion and paranoia. American pilots have regularly killed their allies and as the cockpit video released by the American Airforce (after it had been leaked of course) showed, the pilots who had killed one British soldier, made six errors of procedure and had a total lack of judgement in their attack. The pilots were not under any stress of being attacked, they just didn't have the ability to do the job they were employed to do. Maybe drugs? Many of those deaths by friendly fire incidents while put down to the confusion of battle by the US airforce were made in situations were there was no confusion of battle but just a hyped up gung-ho pilot out on a jolly. Ask the Canadians, they have been victims of apparently drugged up pilots. There should be no place for a drugged up military, that is how innocent people are slaughtered. If a soldier needs drugs, he should be having care because he is one of the walking wounded. War fucks peoples heads and soldiers aren't immune from that and they are as much a casualty of war as soldiers with flesh wounds. There is now overwhelming evidence that around 10% of combat soldiers will have permanent psychological damage and become a potential danger to themselves and those around them, including their families when they return home.

DomAviator -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 3:44:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Oh, and FYI, a British military study proved that keeping troops at the sharp end by using amphetimines leads to a higher suicide rate, unwarrented killing (i.e killing of unarmed civilians), and even murder of fellow soldiers. Amphetamines routinely lower the human emotional restraint against cruel and inhuman acts of violence, which, unless I am mistaken in what we are supposed to be doing in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is to put a stable and more humane government in power. If it is just to allow our troops to run up personal body counts and give them really good food for future nightmares, well then all I have pointed out is a moot point. Its about body counts. I was so paranoid and jumpy that if some Iraqi lit a cigarette I saw a flash and fragged his ass. Why do you think we bomb weddings etc? The drugs make us sharp, perceptive, and healthily paranoid and that leads to a good target prosecution rate, low losses, and a high body count. You have to realize that aircraft cost $30,000,000 training me cost $6,000,000 and training the NFO sitting beside me cost $4,500,000. That is 40.5 million dollars worth of taxpayer money flying over hostile territory. Enemy civilians are free, they can breed more... Better I be sharp and jumpy and bomb a civilian who lit a smoke than that I am overcautious and wind up losing the aircraft and taking myself and the BN out of the fight to spend weeks, months, or years in a POW camp. The loss of that aircraft can mean that a pinned down unit cant get the air support it needs, or that the military objective will not be accomplished. That cant happen and if it take drugs to improve performance, it takes drugs. Its all about winning. In war there is no "first runner up".

meatcleaver -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 4:12:51 AM)
War is not about body counts, Vietnam proved the rediculousness of that philosophy. I can see why America is struggling in Iraq.

BumpStick -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 11:50:13 AM)
OK those number for the army are WHAT IS REPORTED.. Trust me there are alot of us that just dont tell out chain of command what we are taking. I also notied that no one has mentioned PTDS. The amount of us that suffer from it is staggering. I can tell you why we tak the sleeping pills... according to the army soldier can go 36hrs with out sleep (and we do it too). they also say that you only need 4hrs of sleep in a 24hr period... To be alert for my missions over here I usaully consume 3-4 Monsters as well as 6-8 Stackers in a day... With more down time since we are only a couple of weeks from coming home I can finally rest. But I can not sleep for more than 3hrs at a time and will be awake and alert for atleast 4hrs till i can attempt to fall asleep again. And I am one of the more milder cases. One more thing to look at is the stats for Substance Abuse in the Army... the average solider when in the states after a deployed will consume more alcohol. The average solider drinks 5-6 times per week and has 10+ drinks per sitting 4-5 times per week... Another thing, 85% of people who didnt smoke when they joined that army are smokers when the get out.

philosophy -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 12:23:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Better I be sharp and jumpy and bomb a civilian who lit a smoke than that I am overcautious and wind up losing the aircraft ......i think you will find that many disagree with your apparently callous attitude to civilians. What difference is there between you seeing no problem with killing non-combatent civilians and a terrorist seeing no problem bombing non-combatent civilians? i ask, because right now from the tenor of your posts on this subject there seems to be no difference whatsoever......do you see a difference?

jlf1961 -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 12:55:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Better I be sharp and jumpy and bomb a civilian who lit a smoke than that I am overcautious and wind up losing the aircraft Look, this attitude is easy for you to say, however the troops on the ground have to live with what we see and do. Tell you what, if I could pass on HALF the nightmares I have from the places I have been, I think your attitude would change. Try living with the face of a kid scavanging for food who made the mistake of making the wrong sound at the wrong time and ended up with 5 rounds in his chest. Sorry, the drugs may keep you alert, but they will not erase memories. And of course there is that wonderful invistigation after such and incident, and god forbid the press get ahold of it.... While I appreciate the guys upstairs, I do not, cannot believe that you are describing a commonly held attitude, considering the rules of engagement clearly state, "Do not drop ordinance if unsure of target or possible unacceptable civilian losses."

slvemike4u -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 1:12:52 PM)
Every time I think let it go,one more post comes.Just finished a book here called Tiger Force ,a true story of men and war by M.Sallah and M Weiss, it is an account of an Army recon unit given almost total free reign in Vietnam over a seven mo.period in 1967,in it the writers explore the results of giving young men hyped up on adrenaline and less natural substances a hunting license with the only criteria being a body count.The most telling aspect to the book is the price the men themselves paid after the war, where it seemed not a one of them guilty of horrendous acts of barbarism could deal with the memories.Most humans are equipped with a conscious ,maybe as jlf1961 suggests one has to see the faces of one's victim for that particular aspect to affect...

BumpStick -> RE: "America's Medicated Army" (6/12/2008 1:19:12 PM)
Well I am very glad about what our Brigade commander told and tells us.... "you have less than 3 seconds out there to make a decision... they have 3 months to analize it and tell they didn like... Your out there in it. I will stand behind you... Its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6."

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