RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize

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RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/3/2004 8:51:37 PM

subbiejenn

Posts: 631
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline

Gitta,

if i offended you in anyway i did not mean to.... i don't think badly of what anyone wants or does in the lifestyle, i believe W/we all are different and want different things... thats what makes the world go around... Just was stating what my thougts are on the differences of sub/slave.... i guess easier to say they give up more control? Do you agree there is a difference in a sub and a slave?

i consider myself a sub and not a slave but i however have not found that one special person to totally commit to. i can not say i would NEVER be a slave (in my definition of a slave, seems everyone thinks it is something different) i just feel there are differences in a sub and a slave...

Be Well.....

_____________________________

~Subspace is my perfect paradise vacation from busy-mind... blessed be to the Dominant who can stamp my ticket there.~

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 21

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/3/2004 9:01:10 PM

gitta

Posts: 110
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Hello subbiejenn,

Please, take no offense, i am in no way shape or form was or am offended. i have lived 26 years as a slave and 6 as a submissive, my choice is to serve as a slave, and i fully understand the choices that others make...i was not judging you or anyone else, rather simply stating where i stand.

As a slave without a doubt i give up ALL of my control, and that is ok for me, i fully understand not being in a space where i could do so as well, hence the years i spent as a submissive...

We are all humans, with wants, needs, desires, and i am not about to judge another, nor will i take offence to their way of life...This life is a wonderful place to live and my hope is we all do so in harmony.

smiles,
gitta

(in reply to subbiejenn)

Post #: 22

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/3/2004 11:04:56 PM

Thanatosian

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu

A slave only counts as 3/5ths of a person for the census.

(I'll let someone else explain that, if it is not entirely ignored. )

Ok i am a little slow.... but this means not worthy of being a whole person?

if I am not mistaken, iwill is referring to how slaves were counted in the censuses (censii???) during the early years of the USA when there were still actual, sanctioned, legal, real world slaves in the USA (1700s & 1800s) and not anything to do with a 'BDSM world' slaves worth as a person in the present time

(edited to clarify point)

< Message edited by Thanatosian -- 8/3/2004 11:06:18 PM >

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

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(in reply to subbiejenn)

Post #: 23

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/12/2004 5:57:15 AM

RealityFix

Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline

I disagree that a sub is a slave, from personal experience.
You see, a submissive decides on a minute by minute basis, exactly what he or she will submit to. They keep limits to themselves. The Dominant is Never allowed real Mastery.So long as this occurs-the sub retains control. It's a partial power exchange.

I see a slave as a more evolved form of submissive. This personage has realized, that to retain limits other than those of an accepted and trusted Master, is a severe limitation of thier expression and chosen lifestyle. They find thier ultimate freedom in a deeper form of bondage.

Most I have known regard case by case submission as a *game*, more than what they consider to be D/s. And just can't take it seriously.
I have a great deal of respect for thier strength. Ultimately, I would enjoy the privilege of Owning one.

Bright blessings,Terry

(in reply to Thanatosian)

Post #: 24

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/12/2004 6:39:30 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Forgive my confusion if I have mistaken You, but...

quote:

You see, a submissive decides on a minute by minute basis, exactly what he or she will submit to. They keep limits to themselves.

If a submissive were to keep their limits to themselves this would be incredibly dangerous for both the Dominant and the submissive and very irresponsible.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to RealityFix)

Post #: 25

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/13/2004 4:17:45 PM

NoCalOwner

Posts: 241
Status: offline

"Submissive" is a subjective state, an attitude if you will. It may be expressed in the company of strangers, friends, a single Dom/me, or nobody at all. If you feel submissive, you are. Remember, in normal English usage, it's an adjective, not a noun.

"Slave" is not an attitude, it is a status. In our society, one must be submissive to be a slave, but that does not make them equivalent. While anyone can be submissive, only someone who is owned can be a slave. When someone with no owner refers to themselves as a slave, they are expressing their proper role in life. Of course they are also submissive, but that's not necessarily a role at all, it's just their feeling, their mood.

That's how I break it down, anyway. These are nobody else's definitions, and may not be shared by anyone else in this forum, but I've never been able to find any other definitions of these things which made sense to me.

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 26

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/29/2004 8:21:53 AM

lilninotchka

Posts: 121
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline

Y'alls are funny. Interesting and funny. i understand the original point knees makes...and i know that technically, that makes logical sense. If one were to 'decide' to be 'slave', they still 'decided', which makes them 'sub'. On the other hand...lol That could go around and around forever and not get solved or settled or whatever. It all depends on how you personally look at things and that is different for most here. The best we can hope for, i think, is to communicate our personal views to those whom we would like to matter to us for the sake of understanding each other and let the rest go.

Personally, i don't label myself, i am who and how i am...i can use descriptors that make it easier for someone who does not know me to get some idea of who and how i am, but i am still myself, all labels aside. i would truly hate to be held within the confines of any label, because it seems that nobody can tell me, or agree on, what those confines would be. Talk about identity crisis...lmao

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

Post #: 27

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 8/30/2004 9:29:35 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline

In most situations a slave has given complete control
to the Master/Mistress/owner of that particular slave.
Therefore, it is the Master/Msts/Owner who makes the
final decision. Period end of discussion for most slaves.

As a submissive you can stand on the roof top and stomp
your foot and refuse to do something. While discipline might
follow... you have never terminated your right to do so that
makes it more acceptable in some peoples eyes.

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 28

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/7/2004 6:02:54 PM

sting516

Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline

sometimes i really think we get waaaay too caught up in labels...when i was active in Eulenspiegel here in NY, the worst fights were about, what is the difference between a top and a Dom(me), a sub and a slave...everyone fighting tooth and nail about nothing really.

Just as 'forced' scenes are only forced in the sense that it's being done to please someone else, why is it so hard to just allow people to call themselves what they feel they are?

sting

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)

Post #: 29

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/7/2004 6:32:15 PM

asecreter

Posts: 28
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

I agree with Sting in that it's a bit silly to take the labels too seriously; in this instance, the point is moot regardless -- even consensual slavery is illegal. On the other hand, I've also found it very beneficial to ignore the literal etymological disputes and focus on the philosophy behind the dialogs. Except in instances where they become too repetative or the poster too precious about their personal definition, they're really very interesting.

Myself, most of my experiences have been with submissives but on a couple of occasions these situations evolved into subs who wanted to become slaves -- or at least thought they did. Having both struggled with trying to fulfill a role as Master and watching someone I cared about try and acclimatize themselves to slavery, I have a strong appreciation of the emphasis placed on experience with those within the lifestyle.

Some people want to play dress up and call themselves funny names. Some are actually trying to explore their own identities and find a state of mind most conducive to their own, personal happiness. I do think that the former is something of an affront to the latter, but suspect that anyone that explores the issue deeper than a friday night spent window shopping at Bob's Bondage and Sporting Goods will have the opportunity to figure that out.

I think that it's legitimate to say that some people both genuinely want nothing more than to relinquish control over themselves and others who want to take it from them, making the term 'slave' appropriate in more than a merely literal sense. I don't doubt that a lack of intelligence and discretion leads people to make as many bad choices in this endeavour as any other, but this is true of any activity that potentially places personal safety at risk.

(in reply to sting516)

Post #: 30

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/9/2004 7:20:57 AM

Synocense

Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

Ermmmm....and those who choose to be a slave and give up all choice within their relationship still have the choice to discontinue at any time. It may not be "morally" right in the minds of those involved, but the law says we can do it. Neener Neener. *lol* (And no, i'm not mocking the lifestyle, just being playful)

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)

Post #: 31

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/9/2004 8:11:44 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense

Ermmmm....and those who choose to be a slave and give up all choice within their relationship still have the choice to discontinue at any time. It may not be "morally" right in the minds of those involved, but the law says we can do it. Neener Neener. *lol* (And no, i'm not mocking the lifestyle, just being playful)

-exactly- what I was trying to say.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 32

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/11/2004 2:43:53 AM

RhapsodyInBlue

Posts: 9
Joined: 9/7/2004
Status: offline

< Message edited by RhapsodyInBlue -- 9/11/2004 7:27:39 AM >

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 33

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/14/2004 1:44:07 PM

SmoKeyBoy

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline

i agree with You MistressDREAD, i think that there is difference between being a sub and a slave....its all about what and how much power you give to your "Top"
submissively,
smokeyboy

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 34

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/14/2004 5:41:05 PM

sassysilk

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/2/2004
Status: offline

For me it's simple: In our private moments I am utterly his slave. When I walk on my own, I am a submissive.

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 35

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 9/15/2004 6:55:02 PM

bottominwa

Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

The girl is just readign through this thread and she will have to agree and disagree with some of bothe sides here. Legally one can argue in this context a great deal of things, in certain states much of what is S and M is still illegal...so doedeedoe. she believes that by and large any group defines terms for group colloquialisms, and in a BDSM sense slave is defined differently than a straight out Webster's definition. A slave has always been used in the circles the girl has known to deem a person "owned" in particular by another. A submissive is own in the BDSM world who "submits" as a whole as part of their being. One can be, and this girl is an example of such, not a submissive by natural tendancy...or a masochist at all...and still be cultivated into a slave. And in pure noun-ness a submissive in the BDSM genre is allowed determination of events or scenes, one ordeal at a time. Whereas a slave submits their freewill to their Owner, and then must obey any tasks given. As my Owner's slave i do a great deal as a matter of day to day life that i have no want or need to do. Hence, it is often times more clear in a pure Websterian sense to use the term "servant" rather than slave.

sabrina King

kajiira

House of King

Attachment (1)

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 36

Re: realize - 7/13/2005 3:15:08 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

"I" am not afraid of what or whom is behind the door either.

yea tho i walk through the valley of the shadow, i shall have no fear, because i carry a metal baseball bat and i am one bad mutha!

the wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 37

RE: Re: realize - 7/13/2005 3:43:21 AM

ElektraUkM

Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

I was totally surprised when I joined Collarme to find that there is this huge disagreement about whether there is a difference between slave and submissive.

I find it even more surprising, and somewhat depressing, to find so many instances where the idea, in fact the very existence of slavery (in the BDSM sense) is dismissed as impossible and untrue by fellow Lifestylers DESPITE the fact that on thread after thread people who live their lives as slaves post their definition of that state, and describe how it differs from being a submissive.

I find that most of those who reject the idea of slavery (in the BDSM sense) seem to do so because of a few reasons stated over and over. Most of these reasons are to do with the illegality of 'real' (real = legal..??) ownership of another human being; with the dislike of the term 'slave' because of its connotations and useage outside the realm of BDSM; and with the fact that a slave can ultimately say 'no' by walking away from the relationship (in which case, the relationship is at an END? Surely THIS is a significant difference from Submissive?).

Then there are the posts which simply undermine any discussion of status or terminology by stating that one can call oneself anything one pleases and that's fine within the limits of one's own mind.

It seems that no matter how many times the condition or status of BDSM slavery is defined, however logically, intelligently and coherently, there will aways be these objections, which are never fully debated but simply stated as fact.

My question is ~ Why is that?

~ Elektra

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 38

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/13/2005 7:02:42 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sting516

sometimes i really think we get waaaay too caught up in labels...when i was active in Eulenspiegel here in NY, the worst fights were about, what is the difference between a top and a Dom(me), a sub and a slave...everyone fighting tooth and nail about nothing really.

Just as 'forced' scenes are only forced in the sense that it's being done to please someone else, why is it so hard to just allow people to call themselves what they feel they are?

sting

Oh I agree. Everyone is caught up in labels. There is no rulebook. You can expound on the attributes of a slave or submissive for hours, but the bottom line is that what either of those roles are will be defined within your own relationship.

It all comes down to what is negotiated at the start of the relationship and every relationship is different.

(in reply to sting516)

Post #: 39

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/13/2005 7:47:43 AM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense

Ermmmm....and those who choose to be a slave and give up all choice within their relationship still have the choice to discontinue at any time. It may not be "morally" right in the minds of those involved, but the law says we can do it.

I agree with you but then I dont belive anyone can be a true Bdsm slave in Devolped countires.

(sits and waits for the flames to start)

< Message edited by imtempting -- 7/13/2005 7:48:07 AM >

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 40

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