RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize

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RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 1:12:02 AM

hullman

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline

as a master who has had both a sub and a slave there is a big differance,a sub has the right to negotiate what will be allowed and what they arnt interested in,where a slave declines there option of choice by putting there life soul and wellbeingin the hands of another,they however do this willingly and usualy sign contract so stating, hope this clears the issue for you,

a master doesnt take control,he is control

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 61

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 1:15:55 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

doesn't TAKE control he is control?

jeeeeeeeez. ya sound like my drill sergeant now. and my ole man.

i hate dictatorships.

take care
wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to hullman)

Post #: 62

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 1:26:41 AM

hullman

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline

im only speaking of what i learned and experianced in 28yrs in the scene,and it takes time for either to trust there dom that much to sign there contracts and to me that is the heart of the matter, a sub signs with reservations whilst a slave has none

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 63

RE: Here's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 3:02:46 AM

quietkitten

Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

sorry I just had to change the subject line... it was driving me nuts

(in reply to hullman)

Post #: 64

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 3:23:42 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hullman

im only speaking of what i learned and experianced in 28yrs in the scene,and it takes time for either to trust there dom that much to sign there contracts and to me that is the heart of the matter, a sub signs with reservations whilst a slave has none

*********************

Sir? i don't know about You, but "I" always have...reservations........ about everything in life. i am never completely free of it.
i have been around people that change moods faster n i can take a breath. i do not fully trust ANYONE ANYWHERE.........i have been stabbed in the back and kicked in the teeth too much for me to EVER trust THAT much.

thank You
wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to hullman)

Post #: 65

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 7:21:06 AM

hullman

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline

sorry to hear that wolf but if you cant trust how do you expect people to trust you,i will agree women are quick changers until trained then if they know it offends they stop unless they do it to get punished,and there are some who would do that,as to trust in the relationship there has to be ,as there wellbeing is in your hands.

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 66

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 8:38:09 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

Acts aside,I disagree with your premise.

A slave gives total consent once. The only choice after is to leave the dynamic.

A sub gives consent every time they decide to obey.

Let's leave real slavery out of it entirely-there is no consent at all.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 67

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 7/17/2005 11:09:33 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

i will only give trust to a limit. no one or nothing on this planet will ever get unconditional trust. i am always looking over my shoulder and watching my own butt.
if i even smell a bad situation i am so out of there it isn't funny.
and i am not talking about play time..since i have not been there.

i just never ever stop looking-around to see what next is coming. i worked the streets too long. CYA cover your ass.
no one gets 100% trust from me.

wolf

(in reply to hullman)

Post #: 68

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 12:44:35 AM

lytehaze

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline

This is just like a math problem

. A square is a rectangle: in that it is a closed four sided polygon with internal angles of 90 degrees. But a rectangle is not a square: in that a defining feature of squares is all sides are of equal length. A slave is a sub: in that they both submit to another, with a high level of devotion having surrendered some degree of free will. But a sub is not a slave in that the level of free choice for a slave is almost if not completely absent.
Now to the issue of legality: I don't think it is relevant to the topic in a bdsm context. Just because it is not legal in US legislation does not automatically make it fake. Polygamy is illegal but there are certainly multi spoused households functioning in real time and it would not be a "lie" for them to label themselves as such. Just because the law cannot enforce a contract doesn't negate its veracity. What of historical slaves who ran of their own free will and having reached free lands were not legally required to return (case in point Canada)? Did that mean since they chose to run and the government couldn't enforce their return they had never been a “real slave”? Of course not.
I think perhaps a danger may be too closely equating “real slave” with “hostage”.

Obligatory disclaimer: Of course the above views are my own, as I can only speak for myself. Should others identify or disagree with my thoughts, that is their right. I in no way meant to offend, by malice or negligence any person or group.

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 69

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 1:02:00 AM

ennaozzie

Posts: 201
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

If someone kidnaps you and holds you against your will that is illegal and its not something you have consented to, if you like to be held and have lots of restrictions as you would be if you where held against your will, then you hook up with someone that will do that because they like doing it and you like recieving it, that is BDSM.

Well that is how i see it.

beanie

_____________________________

Never make someone your priority when you are only their option

If coffee hurts your eye's take the spoon out of the mug

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 70

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 2:20:54 AM

shedreamz

Posts: 34
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

I learned something Last night~
A Sub/Slave are one in the same. If You choose to be a
toilet Slave then that is what You choose. If You are Submisisve,
and don't like that sort of thing, "Then that is not Your Kink~"

I actually think submissives approach it all a little diferently -- they don't really feel that sense of personal failure if they are unable to comply to a dominant's wishes. They see that they have a choice to follow or not. And either option is okay with them.

For me, as a slave, I just get very upset with myself if I resist or don't fully obey. I find it horrible and while it does happen -- the reality is it is torture.

I am proudest of the moments when I ran away -- pulled away -- but forced myself to return and honor my committments to my Owner.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 71

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 8:40:48 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

wow. here we go with this again. yes there are some (perhaps many) who believe that there is no such thing as slavery within this lifestyle. however i think that these people are confusing the connotation of the word slave with the definition of the word slave.

here are some standard definitions for slave, as it relates to this subject:

1.
a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; bondservant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.
3. a person held in servitude as the chattel of another.

notice that force or lack of consent is not part of these definitions. also, the fact that slavery is illegal does not make the reality of it an impossibility...it simply means that there can be no legally binding contracts or agencies enforcing a person's slave status. however this does not prevent a person from being held as a slave.
as for the idea that a slave always makes a choice to stay, and can always simply walk away, that is simply untrue. an Owner can take all sorts of measures...physical, financial, and especially psychological...to keep a slave entrapped and bound to them for as long as they wish. but the slave who never tries to leave is still a slave.

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 72

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 9:03:10 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you
All these Profiles looking for a slave, well if a person
decides to leave he or she justs packs up and go.

It all boils down to submmiting pure and simple..

This has been my feeling for quite a long time now. Slavery, by it's very definition, is something involuntary and has a negative connotation.

quote:

Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.

Let's look at real slavery. Slaves were traded and sold. Slaves were removed from their families, their UMs were born into slavery and could be traded and sold, would abort a pregnancy. They did not sleep with their owners. Most had little to no interactions with their owners.They would be hunted down if they tried to escape.

I would guess that not a single person here lives that life.

I live in an area where girls (and I mean girls) are smuggled over the border, held against their will and their sexual services are sold to anyone that will pay their captors their fee. Those are slaves.

So, I refuse to call myself a slave. There is nothing involuntary or negative about my submission to him. I won't belittle what those poor girls go through by calling , myself that term. They're wondering how to survive, while I'm having fun.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/24/2007 9:06:20 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 73

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 11:45:22 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

I disagree

a submissive chooses by the moment by the minuite
by the hour by the day by the week by the month by
the year when and how and who and where they will
choose to serve a Dominant daily to fullfill their selfs
or to not.

a slave chooses to serve once forever
to fullfill the Dominants needs.They a person held
concensually in servitude as the chattel of a
another person. one that is completely servient
to a Dominating influence. a device
(as in a posession) that is directly
responsive to anothers needs completly.

if you are a person whom is suplicant and in order
for you to feel suplicant you make choices in what
you will give then you are submitting but if you
choose to let another say what you will give you
are slave

now this is My take on those into suplication

No way. I am a submissive and not a slave but I'm not always choosing to submit. I gave my submission and he has it.

This reasoning always strikes me as very unsound. Slaves are not automatically always obedient. They disobey sometimes. They have chosen to disobey in that particular case - they have chosen not to submit.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 74

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/24/2007 11:49:49 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense

Ermmmm....and those who choose to be a slave and give up all choice within their relationship still have the choice to discontinue at any time. It may not be "morally" right in the minds of those involved, but the law says we can do it. Neener Neener. *lol* (And no, i'm not mocking the lifestyle, just being playful)

Exactly. And unless the slave in question is willing to be killed, foreit all rights to her children (even allow them to be placed in dangerous situations), will break the law, kill when commanded, allow her master to kill, torture and molest others...

Then she is still making choices and no "total mastery" has been achieved. No why anyone would want a person who would allow all that is beyond me. I wouldn't want that sort of a person anywhere in my life because there is no telling what harm they would allow and even assist their "master" to inflict on me and mine if he ever so desired.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Synocense)

Post #: 75

RE: Her's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/25/2007 8:17:00 PM

Arastella

Posts: 262
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline

*nod nod* Thank you for putting into words what I couldn't figure out how to say.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 76

RE: Here's What Slave/Subs don't realize - 5/25/2007 8:17:50 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
Status: offline

i never realized that...what were we talking about again???

LOL

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Arastella)

Post #: 77

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