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ORIGINAL: Madame4a

sounds manipulative to me... and frankly, that many variations is too complicated for me... and likely for my boi...

keeping things simple is always a good idea

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Not to change the subject, but does anyone really every use "green"? 

I've used "green" when asked if all was okay.  I think the green, yellow, red system are a good way for a domme and sub to get to know each other and for a domme to learn the sub's body signals.  I don't recall ever having used a red, but numerous times using yellow.  That was enough to let the domme know I was getting close to what I could handle and adjust accordingly.  

Frankly I don't get the orange thing as that sounds to me a bit too much to remember, especially when deep in sub space.  Keeping it simple is the way I've always heard it should be and that makes perfect sense to me.  Most dommes I've known have also always had the philosophy that they wanted to leave the sub wanting more.  Consequently, they never tended to want to push me beyond yellow, even if I was begging for more.

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ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL:  I think the green, yellow, red system are a good way for a domme and sub to get to know each other and for a domme to learn the sub's body signals.  I don't recall ever having used a red, but numerous times using yellow.  That was enough to let the domme know I was getting close to what I could handle and adjust accordingly.  
 
Frankly I don't get the orange thing as that sounds to me a bit too much to remember, especially when deep in sub space.  

 - pixel

The added "orange" works for us as well as for others, it seems. For us, it lets me know that after yellow, I've been able to get him to dig deeper inside for that extra inch, and that he's gone past where he was but is still not at red. Signal words are about communication and it's a lot quicker than a discussion while we're in the middle of something. For him, it seems to be a huge accomplishment to go further than he ever has or thought he could without stopping the scene. It's also working for us in that it's building his trust in me, knowing that I can take him further and further without hitting his absolute limit. As far as subspace goes, I've only allowed him to go into it lightly. It's been a really long time, but I've been in deep subspace and know that I felt absolutely nothing in regards to pain. At that point, I think safewords are completely useless and it's up to the Domme to gauge things accordingly. And for myself, until he and I have explored things that we've not yet had the chance to, I won't allow him to slip that far. I believe it's my responsibility to be pretty darn sure how his body is going to feel the next day at work before I take him to a point where he can no longer communicate with me.

As MaamJay said, red can certainly be used if there's an unexpected cramp, trigger, or something else unexpected happens. With my last boy, there was a time when my aim went astray and I knew it as soon as the flogger landed. Not only because I saw it, but because of the silent scream and the way his body reacted. He didn't want to cry red because he didn't want to stop the scene. No red was necessary because I was alert enough to know there was something wrong. Safe words aren't an excuse to stop paying attention, nor do they put the entire responsibility in the sub's hands. They're a communication shortcut... and if I ever took someone to red (other than the unexpected happening), I would feel that I was the one lacking. I never want to take someone to a place where they can take no more. I want them to go where they haven't, where they thought they never could, and ache to go further.

(in reply to pixelslave)

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ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I wouldn't say you're nuts, I might be tempted to say She is though!

For one thing, I've not seen people differentiate between yellow and orange ... they are used as different descriptions of the middle traffic light as used in different countries! Some even call it amber! Given that the colours are taken from the traffic light analogy, green is go, red is stop right now and the other colour, whatever name you agree to call it, is the "slow down, get ready to stop, this is approaching my limit" signal.

Yes as a Domme I prefer a sub to call "yellow/orange/amber" before calling red. I specifically tell new subs that I will intensify the play until I hear him call that (partly to get over the male machismo "I can take anything" crap!). I like to have that warning that I am getting near his current tolerance levels. This leaves the control in My hands as to what I do about that. I could choose to:
* keep going anyway and continue to intensify the sensation till he calls red
* maintain the intensity at the orange level and see if the effects accumulate till he calls red
* back off the intensity a bit ... and then I can choose to back right off and cool it down, or try reintensifying it again and see if the safeword is called at the same level as previously or whether it is called sooner or later than before.

However, I can think of any number of situations why he might call red without previously calling "yellow/orange/amber". This could be as varied as a sudden unexpected blow was much harder than the rest (might not have been deliberate by the Dominant either ... getting distracted might alter the aim or cause wrap of the flogger tails which can cause extreme pain) to a sudden cramp, feeling of dizziness or faintness or to a sudden emotional response to some sort of trigger that the sub didn't know existed etc. There is no penalty from Me if a sub calls red. If anything I feel badly if it's due to something I should have controlled or detected earlier eg My aim, and concerned and immediately responsive if it's due to some medical or emotional issue. I've experienced all of those scenarios and NEVER have they brought about the end of the relationship. Someone who says it would is, in My opinion, guilty of emotional blackmail and I wouldn't go near them, let alone play with them.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Not to change the subject, but does anyone really every use "green"? 

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ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

I like to use "perfunctory".

Is that wrong?

Have fun.   

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Not to change the subject, but does anyone really every use "green"? 

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Not to change the subject, but does anyone really every use "green"? 

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ORIGINAL: BotanicalMiss

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ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL:  I think the green, yellow, red system are a good way for a domme and sub to get to know each other and for a domme to learn the sub's body signals.  I don't recall ever having used a red, but numerous times using yellow.  That was enough to let the domme know I was getting close to what I could handle and adjust accordingly.  
 
Frankly I don't get the orange thing as that sounds to me a bit too much to remember, especially when deep in sub space.  

 - pixel

The added "orange" works for us as well as for others, it seems. For us, it lets me know that after yellow, I've been able to get him to dig deeper inside for that extra inch, and that he's gone past where he was but is still not at red. Signal words are about communication and it's a lot quicker than a discussion while we're in the middle of something. For him, it seems to be a huge accomplishment to go further than he ever has or thought he could without stopping the scene. It's also working for us in that it's building his trust in me, knowing that I can take him further and further without hitting his absolute limit. As far as subspace goes, I've only allowed him to go into it lightly. It's been a really long time, but I've been in deep subspace and know that I felt absolutely nothing in regards to pain. At that point, I think safewords are completely useless and it's up to the Domme to gauge things accordingly. And for myself, until he and I have explored things that we've not yet had the chance to, I won't allow him to slip that far. I believe it's my responsibility to be pretty darn sure how his body is going to feel the next day at work before I take him to a point where he can no longer communicate with me.

As MaamJay said, red can certainly be used if there's an unexpected cramp, trigger, or something else unexpected happens. With my last boy, there was a time when my aim went astray and I knew it as soon as the flogger landed. Not only because I saw it, but because of the silent scream and the way his body reacted. He didn't want to cry red because he didn't want to stop the scene. No red was necessary because I was alert enough to know there was something wrong. Safe words aren't an excuse to stop paying attention, nor do they put the entire responsibility in the sub's hands. They're a communication shortcut... and if I ever took someone to red (other than the unexpected happening), I would feel that I was the one lacking. I never want to take someone to a place where they can take no more. I want them to go where they haven't, where they thought they never could, and ache to go further.

I can still usually communicate while in subspace up to a point.  Perhaps the problem is that I start to go there at the drop of a dime!
 
I can even go into subspace while giving a woman a foot rub; somthing I've never needed to use a safe word while doing!   As such, trying to distinguish between yellow and orange would require a bit too much distinction for me during impact or other pain play as I don't "yellow" until I'm very close to hitting "red" anyway.
 
 - pixel
 


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to BotanicalMiss)