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RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 11:21:42 AM

rubberpet

Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline

All I know is if a domme ends the entire relationship with me because I used a safe word, maybe I shouldn't be with a domme like that in the first place... Sounds like a whack-job to me.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about that with Mistress because She is not only safe, She is very respectful of my limits...although She is dying to see how many layers of rubber can be applied to a wiggling, squirming boytoy!

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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 41

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 12:36:14 PM

Wickad

Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
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(fast reply)

Greetings,

I think the idea of safe words is a very complex one.

On one hand having safe words ensures the safety of all people involved. It also helps the Top figure out where there bottom is. For people who are new to playing with each other it also aids in learning each other's bodies and limits. These are all really important reasons for safe words.

However, depending on the dynamic sought, safewords can be a tool to undermind the authority of the Dominant partner and facilitate Topping from the bottom. I know of a man who is only interested in slaves and does not use safe words. He is into TPE within the context of negotiated limits. What this means is that once you have entered into a relationship with him, the only rules are his rules and the only way to stop what he is doing is to end the relationship. In a sense, the only way to end the dynamic is to call 'red'. He does this because he is unwilling to be blackmailed into 'submitting' to his slave's demands. In his way of thinking, you trust him completely right up until you don't trust him at all.

I can't say I totally agree with this attitude but full-time ownership of a slave is quite a bit different than part-time play with a bottom. As such the rules tend to be a bit different as well.

To the OP, perhaps you should talk to the Dominant in question and find out if her 'red ends the relationship' is in the context of play or control of the relationship dynamic itself. You might find that she is willing to use the 'stop light' system for play but is simply unwilling to allow you any control (except to exit the relationship) within the context of the bigger relationship. Either way, talking about this issue further might help you decide if she is simply a 'nut job' or someone who simply didn't express herself well.

Wickad

(in reply to rubberpet)

Post #: 42

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 1:13:35 PM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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Gosh, where do I begin regarding safewording.

Dear Mike, they never have been a feature for me in any session and for the reasons I will set out.

I have seen, firsthand, how reliance on safewording has been to the detriment of the submissive and for a number of reasons - Guilt, not wanting to 'let down' the dominant; Feeling they don't wnat to 'let themselves' down and therefore not use one; Inability to actually use one where the endorphins are flying and they are no longer capable of making a coherent decision; training someone to the point that the use of one specific word to stop a scene does nothing to convey what a problem is, only that there is one and as a result, there are dangers of causing further harm; Forgetting what the actual safeword is entirely.

I prefer 'open communication', using my experience, coupled with their own, to evaluate what I consider is enough for them and this has been no different for me whether that person has been a casual play partner - I've always taken my time to get to know a person and evaluate them, or whether I have been in a relationship with them.

Their safety takes precedence over their desires to be pushed and on occasion, I've had to stop a scene because I've felt they would not be able to process the sensations/emotions positively - much to their disappointment.

I find it bizarre that a domme would allow safewording, yet terminate a relationship should their submissive use one unless, perhaps, you have misconstrued and she meant to convey that it would stop the scene which, of course, it should. She needs to clarify this for you. Once you find out, please do let us know.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 6/15/2008 1:22:34 PM >

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(in reply to Wickad)

Post #: 43

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 2:59:40 PM

Puppy4goodHome

Posts: 1448
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Beachwood Ohio and a few others
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if somone ends a relatioship becouse of a safe word you have to think is it worth it i would say no its not

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Post #: 44

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 3:11:30 PM

MysticFireTopaz

Posts: 50939
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
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I can't comprehend ending the relationship because a submissive used a safeword. If I were a sub, I think I would steer clear of that Domme. Unfortunately, that isn't the first time I've heard of Dom/mes threatening to break off a relationship if a safeword is used.

On the other hand, I have run across several subs who want to play with NO safewords, even when playing for the first time. I tell them that safewords are part of the terms and condtions of playing with me. No safewords, no play.

Lady Topaz

(in reply to SnowRanger)

Post #: 45

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/15/2008 11:04:28 PM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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What I fail to comprehend, Lady Topaz, is if there are safewords in place, which clearly there are in the OP, why on earth threaten termination of the relationship should they be used. It makes no sense.

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The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to MysticFireTopaz)

Post #: 46

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 5:54:08 AM

Puppy4goodHome

Posts: 1448
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From: Beachwood Ohio and a few others
Status: offline

I was thinking that same thing

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

What I fail to comprehend, Lady Topaz, is if there are safewords in place, which clearly there are in the OP, why on earth threaten termination of the relationship should they be used. It makes no sense.

_____________________________

Pup on the loose better watch out

ross.g
Puppster
puppy

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 47

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 6:48:55 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Some people see the use of safewords as a personal failure...especially in a long term relationship. In my opionion Safe words are most effective in casual relationships. In longer term relationship there should be a level of understanding that makes the need for safe words mute. Even when you are entering into new terriority you should be aware of the triggers and reactions of your partner. A Dominants job is to be aware and responsible for their partner and a submissive job is to be responsive and honest with their reactions. If both people do their jobs then safe words are unneccesary however if a long te rm partner starts screaming repeatedly red,scooby doo, or fu*k no.. Im going to stop and check.. or if gagged starts thrashing Im going to stop and check..and if I think he has had more than he can take its time to stop... thats what being responsible is about.

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 6/16/2008 6:51:21 AM >

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(in reply to Puppy4goodHome)

Post #: 48

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 6:03:03 PM

MysticFireTopaz

Posts: 50939
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
What I fail to comprehend, Lady Topaz, is if there are safewords in place, which clearly there are in the OP, why on earth threaten termination of the relationship should they be used. It makes no sense.

No, it certainly doesn't make any sense to me either. All I can figure is that it might be some sort of warped test of the sub's will. Like, "Are you strong enough to take what I dish out (i.e. not use the safeword)? If not, I will respect your safeword. However, I will then dump you."

Whatever the motivation, I'd take a pass on that type of Dom/me if I were a sub.

Lady Topaz

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 49

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 8:47:42 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
Status: offline

quote:

Safe Word a Deal Killer?

it's better to have a deal killer than to be killed in the deal...wouldn't you think?

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Post #: 50

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 8:56:56 PM

AllietheKitten

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Totally agree with what Master Fire Maam said. If the communication is in place the safeword doesn't really need to be used.

At the beginning of our relationship I gave Netizen the safeword as a safety net while we learned each other. But I watch him a lot and learned his reactions pretty quickly so we have never had to use it.

SnowRanger--I agree with others who have said that if the Domme tries to turn the safeword into a threat then she isn't the One for you. I would get outta there!

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I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
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(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 51

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/16/2008 11:16:29 PM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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There needs to be a great deal more than good communication to omit any kind of safe word. Trust and respect for each other are two essential factors, along with open communication.

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to AllietheKitten)

Post #: 52

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/17/2008 12:35:55 AM

HarryVanWinkle

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Not to change the subject, but does anyone really every use "green"?

I did last Saturday night. I'd yelled "Ouch!" and one of the tops asked me, "What color was that 'Ouch?'" The answer was, "Green."

But, other than in a context such as that, I've not heard it much.

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 53

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/24/2008 6:02:12 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline

Hello A/all!

First, I want to thank all of you who gave answers to this question (except the person who thinks I'm crazy of course).

Please let me illuminate the question with an explanation of the logic behind this particular Mistres's statement. She feels that in this case my use of "red" implies: 1) a lack of trust on my part; 2) a failure on her part to properly read the situation. Further, though unsaid, it prevents abuse of the word "red."

My "problem" with this situation is two fold: 1) I have never heard of such dire consequences before; 2) I feel I shoud be given some consideration for a "learning curve." Consequently, I wondered whether this sort of arrangement was common.

I apoligize to any one who found my original question to be confusing. English is my second language (baby talk is my first).

Sincerley,
Mike
SnowRanger

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 54

RE: Safe Word a Deal Killer? - 6/25/2008 6:59:34 AM

DominantJenny

Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
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In a new relationship, a lack of trust on your part is not unreasonable. Indeed, she MAY fail to read the situation properly; if she insists she is never wrong about such a thing, beware. We are all only human. I agree that abuse of the safeword is a problem, but one or even a few instances is not likely to be abuse.
I strongly agree that there should be an allowance for a learning curve, as I believe I said in my original response.

(in reply to SnowRanger)

Post #: 55

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