RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:20:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Each thread is about opinion and the opinion that the topic is dull or has been done to death is as valid as any other even if it may not contribute to the discussion in terms of progressing it. Its a public forum with many people and similar themes popping up all the time and people express how they dislike it because thats the emotion they get when reading it. I hope that explains some.


Except there was a subtle point to that statement that went beyond simply being a smart ass.




Stusmobile -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:26:20 AM)

Only as a baseline from which we can then go on to learn about each other.




stef -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:27:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Maybe its something to do with seeing your  name in lights      ....    or  on the puter.[:)]

I wonder if that can also explain those who start scores of inane threads then complain when people don't fawn over them?

~stef




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:39:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I prefer the word "identity" as opposed to "label", because the problem is when people insist on "labeling" other people, then that is when they become an issue.

So are You saying a phrase in a profile such as 'seeks a Dom' is problematic?

The words become our own and they are used to express parts of ourselves, not to have ourselves conformed to fit the word. As such, the words become part of us and when people attempt to tell us that we are not what we claim to be, they are not merely defining a category for communication, but negating a part of the self which people respond negatively to. (If you don't understand that, then your probably vanilla.)

Nope, sorry -- i tried -- but i didn't understand.  Are You now going to label me 'vanilla'?  How do You reconcile that with Your first point?

If people could think more in terms of "What does this word mean to you?", the kink world might actually lose 25% of it's drama.

Do You mean W/we should try harder to suss out A/another member's intended meaning when T/they use a lable?  How would W/we do that?  What cues do You think W/we can use?

Nihilism is a bit scary for some people...

i don't understand what You meant here.
 
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm

i don't remember my Philosophy 101 class all that well...but i have no 'fear' of nilhilism or any other modern philosophy. 
 
What connection did You mean to make between the Op and nilhilism?

....though and I am sure it's only a matter of time before another pontificating pompous pinhead comes forth with the big answer of BDSM metaphysics for all of us to adhere to.

Was this directed at the Op?  Can You please explain why You found the Op 'pontificating on BDSM metaphysics'?

im not trying to put words in Your mouth here.  i just don't understand why You'd respond to questions in an Op You found meritless.
 
pinksugarsub








InsaenPleasures -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:43:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

Just out of curiosity, can Somone explain to me the phenom of posting to a thread merely to say 'the Op was boring"?
 
pinksugarsub


Mainly to de-humanize and marginalize. Apparently your post did not meet that person's minimum standards of what is post-worthy. /shrug

Someone mentioned identity and I think thats a good word. It is fine to self-identify, Dom, sub, switch, Socialist what have you.  Others can decide for themselves if you fit that identity.  Sometimes we mis-identify ourselves and may need to change how we identify.

We rely on labels a great deal though and the problem is (again as others have pointed out) that if we cannot agree on what a label means then it becomes practically useless.

I would vote for simplifying labels down to their base and go from there.

My general feeling though is that we use labels as a means not just to parse information but to also rate or rank that information.  One interesting excersise might be to just describe who you are and what you want without using ANY labels (even basic ones) and see who is interested.

Logan




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:44:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

~ FR

A label, in this context, is nothing more than a word with an assigned definition.  So the question really boils down to "Are Words Helpful to US?"

Knight's Kyra


What context were you referring to? The boards?  CollarMe?  D/s?
 
Are you saying you believe a consensus does exist as to the meaning of lables?  If so, that would be an interesting POV.  Could you expand on this a little?  
 
Regardless of context, how else -- apart from language -- do you think W/we communicate?
 
pinksugarsub




MadRabbit -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 9:59:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I prefer the word "identity" as opposed to "label", because the problem is when people insist on "labeling" other people, then that is when they become an issue.

So are You saying a phrase in a profile such as 'seeks a Dom' is problematic?

The words become our own and they are used to express parts of ourselves, not to have ourselves conformed to fit the word. As such, the words become part of us and when people attempt to tell us that we are not what we claim to be, they are not merely defining a category for communication, but negating a part of the self which people respond negatively to. (If you don't understand that, then your probably vanilla.)

Nope, sorry -- i tried -- but i didn't understand.  Are You now going to label me 'vanilla'?  How do You reconcile that with Your first point?

If people could think more in terms of "What does this word mean to you?", the kink world might actually lose 25% of it's drama.

Do You mean W/we should try harder to suss out A/another member's intended meaning when T/they use a lable?  How would W/we do that?  What cues do You think W/we can use?

Nihilism is a bit scary for some people...

i don't understand what You meant here.
 
http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm

i don't remember my Philosophy 101 class all that well...but i have no 'fear' of nilhilism or any other modern philosophy. 
 
What connection did You mean to make between the Op and nilhilism?

....though and I am sure it's only a matter of time before another pontificating pompous pinhead comes forth with the big answer of BDSM metaphysics for all of us to adhere to.

Was this directed at the Op?  Can You please explain why You found the Op 'pontificating on BDSM metaphysics'?

im not trying to put words in Your mouth here.  i just don't understand why You'd respond to questions in an Op You found meritless.
 
pinksugarsub







I am afraid I can't continue, because it seems you are being deliberately being obtuse, because you were offended by my first post and not actually interested in attempting to understand the points presented.

But then again, given your past history of being unable to comprehend what is clearly obvious in other threads, it's possible you are just mentally unable to.




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:05:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Part of the human condition is to put things into boxes, judge and label its just the way that we are, even when people say they dislike labels they still apply them to themselves.

i agree with you -- that makes sense.

I think it depends, I think that because of our nature labels can be great ways of organising things, like i said on another post labels are used in all aspects of ourself daughter, mother, friend, lover etc etc there are loads, the problem often comes when we think that labels mean the same to everyone or that to call yourself something means that you always act a certain way, its impossible for that to be true.

Do you feel that the labels W/we use on the boards lack any generally-accepted meaning?

You are one person with all the aspects of yourself all the time, sometimes they are more prominant than others but they are always there.

True enough.  i'm always a mom, a friend, a taxpayer, a voter, etc., in addition to any D/s role i may play.

If you disregard someone because of the label that they choose to apply to themselves you may be missing out on something fantastic...

I disagree to some degree.  When i receive email from male subs, Dommes, switches, etc. i generally respond that i'm not interested (except possibly in friendship) because i'm seeking a Dom.
 
i've not always done this.  In the past, i've responded to emails from male subs and switches, especially if in the email T/they said 'I want to be your Dom' but i have stopped doing this, as i have never found it to be fruitful.

....but at the same time it is you that misses out and therefore maybe your own labels can help to weed out the people you wouldnt want in your life anyways.

Well, i might want T/them as friends, but not as a D/s partner.

We can debate their merit till the cows come home but they are never going to vanish because its simply who we all are, we just have to make sure that we try not labelling other people because that can have very negative affects.

Do You see a problem with phrases in a profile such as 'seeks a Dom'?  Or did you mean s'thing else?  Could you please expand a little on this point?

As you said people clarify what their labels mean to them and surely thats the most important thing, of course we may not agree with their own assessment of themselves but to be honest who cares.

O yes, i completely agree.  It is self-defeating and presumptuous not to accept O/other P/pl's self-assigned labels.
 
Thank you for your post.
 
pinksugarsub




camille65 -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:08:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

~ FR

A label, in this context, is nothing more than a word with an assigned definition.  So the question really boils down to "Are Words Helpful to US?"

Knight's Kyra


What context were you referring to? The boards?  CollarMe?  D/s?
 
Are you saying you believe a consensus does exist as to the meaning of lables?  If so, that would be an interesting POV.  Could you expand on this a little?  
 
Regardless of context, how else -- apart from language -- do you think W/we communicate?
 
pinksugarsub


I may well be mod-spanked for this but I am not asking with sarcasm. Honest.

pinksugarsub, are you for real? Are you asking genuine questions or attempting to be disingenuous?




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:10:28 AM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_847613/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#847750
Testing for the dynamic label

http://www.collarchat.com/m_615892/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#615900
Food for thought

http://www.collarchat.com/m_605105/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#605262
Philosophies concerning bdsm labels

http://www.collarchat.com/m_566727/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#566808
Are we defined only by our labels?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515260/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#515339
labels!!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_211188/mpage_1/key_labels/tm.htm#211207
A question about labels




SirDominic -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:11:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

To paraphrase Geoffery Rush in "Pirates of the Caribbean"... "(Labels) be more like guidelines, than actual rules."



That is the most perfect answer I think I have ever heard!




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:15:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Maybe its something to do with seeing your  name in lights      ....    or  on the puter.[:)]


Okay.  i am not acquainted with you or your posts, so i'm a bit surprised you'd be aware of mine. 
 
Why not use the 'hide' button if that is the case? 
 
Why bother posting to the thread at all?
 
pinkugarsub




GreedyTop -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:21:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Maybe its something to do with seeing your  name in lights      ....    or  on the puter.[:)]


Okay.  i am not acquainted with you or your posts, so i'm a bit surprised you'd be aware of mine. 
 
Why not use the 'hide' button if that is the case? 
 
Why bother posting to the thread at all?
 
pinkugarsub


Paranoid much?

How do you know she was aiming that specifically at YOU? Believe it or not, the world, or even this message board does NOT revolve around YOU.




NeedingMore220 -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:25:11 AM)

[If people could think more in terms of "What does this word mean to you?", the kink world might actually lose 25% of it's drama.

Do You mean W/we should try harder to suss out A/another member's intended meaning when T/they use a lable?  How would W/we do that?  What cues do You think W/we can use?]




Communication.  Labels are merely the first step in learning someone.  When I am speaking with a Dominant, I understand a general sense of how he identifies, but I know nothing more beyond that.  You don't need clues to suss things out.  You need to talk.  Discuss.  Question.  Share opinions. 




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:25:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Each thread is about opinion and the opinion that the topic is dull or has been done to death is as valid as any other even if it may not contribute to the discussion in terms of progressing it. Its a public forum with many people and similar themes popping up all the time and people express how they dislike it because thats the emotion they get when reading it. I hope that explains some.


Ran a search for Topics using the term 'Label'.
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1761452/mpage_1/key_label/tm.htm#1761452
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1625409/mpage_1/key_label/tm.htm#1625409
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_903253/mpage_1/key_label/tm.htm#903253
 
There were other results that may have also been on-point, but i take your meaning.  It would be useful to run a search before posting an Op.
 
Thank you for the input.
 
pinksugarsub




colouredin -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:32:21 AM)

I was talking more in real life when I was saying about missing out, I have friends with all differant oriantations and also I have known people who label themselves one thing change that label when they find that they have chemistry with someone, labels can shift and change over time.

When i said we shouldnt label others I was talking with the knowledge of the labelling theory, this is a sociological term that came from a study into school children. They took a class and made them take a test then on giving results they randomly picked certain children and told the teacher that some were very smart and some not so much the teacher then changed how she spoke to them etc and then the sociologists re-tested the children and found that their results were heavily impacted on by the label that had initially been given to them. Its called a self fullifilling prophecy (it can of course work the other way when people attempt to break the labels that have been applied to them but its rare) thats what I meant. If we label someone it can affect their behaviour and self perception even if we dont tell them the label that we have applied to them simply treat them as such.

Some basic explainations

http://members.aol.com/svennord/ed/labeling.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_theory




kyraofMists -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:34:04 AM)

Various definitions of the word 'label':

A brand of commercial recording issued under a trademarked name.
A brand name of a retail store, clothing manufacturer or a fashion designer.
An adhesive stamp
A slip (usually paper or cloth) that is attached to something to identify it, i.e. a label placed on a file.
A word or phrase used with a dictionary definition used to provide additional information
To describe or designate
To affix a label


Given the context of your OP, I don't think you are talking about the usefulness of attaching a piece of paper to something or a brand name of clothing, etc.  Given the context of your OP, you are refering to a word or phrase with a definition.

Yes, I believe there is a general consensus on what words mean in a given language.  Otherwise, when one English speaking person says to another English speaking person, "Want a piece of fruit", the person would ask "What is a fruit?"  The most likely response is "What kind of fruit". 

I find it odd that you consider it interesting that I think words have a common meaning.  If they didn't then this post would just be gibberish, a seemingly random arrangement of marks.

In regards to your last question, you are kidding right?  How else do we communicate?  In a speech class that I took, we were told that the spoken word only makes up about 7% of what we communicate with other people.  Tone and body language communicates significantly more to others than words.

Words are helpful, but they only communicate so much. 

Knight's Kyra




pinksugarsub -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:34:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Maybe its something to do with seeing your  name in lights      ....    or  on the puter.[:)]

I wonder if that can also explain those who start scores of inane threads then complain when people don't fawn over them?

~stef



stef...i don't know you or your posts. 
 
But doesn't your 'hide' button work?
 
pinksugarsub




stef -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:48:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

stef...i don't know you or your posts.

Perhaps you should consider being screened for Alzheimers.

 
quote:

But doesn't your 'hide' button work?

I wouldn't know, I've never felt the need to hide anyone's posts. 

~stef




kc692 -> RE: Are Labels Helpful to U/us? (6/14/2008 10:51:20 AM)

LOL, its a bitch you dont know stef's posts....most actually do, since she has been around much longer than any of your reincarnations, she just doesnt ramble on like you do.



hey , I'm gone for a week and what happened to the [sm=dontfeedtrolls.gif][sm=AttentionWhore.gif]??? It just changed fucking colors!!!!

Hide doesnt work either since everyone is fond of quotes....and to think my fav color USED TO be purple.




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