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The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 5:46:26 PM

Midnght

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It's pretty well known to not hit someone in the kidneys.

But do you agree with this as a must never do are is there a way to do this without hurting anyone.

Your thoughts?

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/16/2008 6:22:36 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 5:51:46 PM

Leatherist

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Not that I know of. They are simply too delicate and prone to rupture-perhaps some things are considered off limits for good reasons-not simply optional ones? If you MUST know why not find someone to give you a nice hefty blow in one of YOURS-and report back how that went for you?

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/16/2008 5:53:15 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 5:52:27 PM

azropedntied

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personally i stay away from things that shall break the other person or cause lasting damage , there are far more areas to use than the kidneys ,spleen , liver , soft organs , just as i would not pound on a heart area or get a violet wand near an eye .i am not into snuff and i bet neither are the other people as you can only do it once .

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:12:51 PM

d1ll1gaf

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The kidney's are a delicate structure and to the best of my knowledge there is no way to intentionally target them with any certainty that you won't cause any permanent damage. That being said don't panic if the kidney's are accidentally struck (i.e. a whip / strap curls around further than expected) as the human body is generally tougher than most people give it credit for. I spent over 10 years fighting in the martial arts at the national / international level (heavyweight division with no maximum) and one of the most common attacks was to attack the kidneys by curling your foot around when attacking from the front (easier to show / do than describe). As such I have been checked by doctors many times and none of the damage my kidneys sustained in any fight has caused any long-term consequences.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:15:20 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

But do you agree with this as a must never do are is there a way to do this without hurting anyone.

I disagree.

You can beat somebody in the kidneys all day long with a feather.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:23:38 PM

Midnght

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Not that I know of. They are simply too delicate and prone to rupture-perhaps some things are considered off limits for good reasons-not simply optional ones? If you MUST know why not find someone to give you a nice hefty blow in one of YOURS-and report back how that went for you?

Oh i'm quite sure it would hurt but your going to the extreme end of the spectrum. Now try to think a little bit harder and not about being punched or wialed on with a bat. Do you still agree or disagree?
You may have a wicked flogger but you think any tap will cause damage? }:>)

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/16/2008 6:25:27 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:31:45 PM

CruelDesires

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It is better to err on the side of caution when it comes to delicate internal organs like the kidneys. To do otherwise can be considered foolish and irresponsible behavior.

CD

< Message edited by CruelDesires -- 6/16/2008 6:32:21 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:34:45 PM

persephonee

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i have something to add as the kidneys involved belong to me....it was stated during a scene that i was being hit in the kidneys. i am a big girl...i have a nice big ass just ripe for a beating...because of that....i have some ass in the area most commonly associated with the kidneys on a skinnier girl. i am also a nurse and i have palpated my kidneys and i know about where they are in relation to my ass/lower back. i was being flogged with a big heavy thuddy flogger...and not to cause a stink...not very hard(ducks...).
A girlfriend who has never seen me play was concerned as she felt that it was too close to my kidneys and got the DM...who has seen me play with this Top and other Tops...and seen me go harder....the DM not only didnt stop the scene but afterward was clear that there was nothing wrong with either where i was being hit or how hard or anything...
its not ok to cause direct trauma to someones kidneys....we all know this....but if you are looking in on a scene and you see 3 smiling subbies suspended from a hook...begging for it to be their turn next...its safe to assume that there were no kidney shots taken....just my 2 cents.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:36:51 PM

ImpGrrl

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When I teach caning, I start the "where to/not to hit" part with a quip. I hold my hand above my bottom's head, and say "when caning, you can hit from here down".

Because it isn't about where you can hit - it's about *how* you hit.

I wouldn't hit the kidneys (or any area) *hard*, but I also don't avoid them entirely. There are ways that are safe.

That said - it's only safe if you know what you're doing.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:39:54 PM

Midnght

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

It is better to err on the side of caution when it comes to delicate internal organs like the kidneys. To do otherwise can be considered foolish and irresponsible behavior.

CD

Why would it be irresponsible?
Are you not confidant enough in your tenure that you know how hard you could hit such an area and not cause any damage?

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:43:26 PM

Midnght

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

When I teach caning, I start the "where to/not to hit" part with a quip. I hold my hand above my bottom's head, and say "when caning, you can hit from here down".

Because it isn't about where you can hit - it's about *how* you hit.

I wouldn't hit the kidneys (or any area) *hard*, but I also don't avoid them entirely. There are ways that are safe.

That said - it's only safe if you know what you're doing.

Exactly how I feel ImpGrrl.
Certain items can be used much harder than others a cane and a crop can be used but you have to be gentle and best to go across the entire back not just aim for a side. Such strikes will not even leave a mark to know it was even there.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:43:28 PM

GreedyTop

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CD has no confidence issues. And just because you've 'hit there before' with no issues does not mean that the next time you do you wont continue to not have issues.
Count me in on the 'safe rather than sorry' crowd.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:44:25 PM

DiurnalVampire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght

It's pretty well known to not hit someone in the kidneys.

But do you agree with this as a must never do are is there a way to do this without hurting anyone.

Your thoughts?

This is a MUST NEVER DO.
I AM confident enough I an hit someone just about anywhere without doing intentional damage. Note the word intentional. There is no way to hit someone and not cause UNINTENTIONAL damage with 100% confidence. If there was it wouldnt be called unintentional damange. The kidneys are far far too delicate to mess with. From someone in a family of kidney disease sufferers, when somethig goes wrong there, ther eis nothing but hell afterwards. We are taught in our self defense classes that the kidney shot is an absolute last resort, life and death situaion type thing becasue it will damage your attacker, potentially permanently.
I, for one, am not willing to test my abilities and control and risk breaking my favorite toys.

And re: one of the earlier entries.. why even bother with a tap? If I am going to btoher hitting something, I am going to actually HIT it. I dont tap unless its a warm up. And as to a full back strike with a crop... thats across the back, not aimed at the kidney. You ahve to hit sidelong into them to get around the structures that keep them safe normally... so the general kidney area and an acutal aimed shot at the kidney are quite different.

DV

< Message edited by DiurnalVampire -- 6/16/2008 6:47:38 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:45:19 PM

Midnght

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

CD has no confidence issues. And just because you've 'hit there before' with no issues does not mean that the next time you do you wont continue to not have issues.
Count me in on the 'safe rather than sorry' crowd.

Understood but then are you to say someone sqeezing your waist in the right spot during sex that you would call a stop to it? Would you even recognize if they really are there unless it was painful?

In any case I'm merely looking for opinions here and they are all valubale don't let my playign devils adovocate lead you to think i'm some sick sadistic bastard who likes to wail on kidneys. }:>)

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/16/2008 6:46:54 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:48:48 PM

GreedyTop

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*pondering the various positions in which I have had sex*

hmm...

mind giving me an example of a position in which someone would be squeezing my waist (other than an arm across my stomach to keep me upright?..oh wait..even that is really across my lower ribcage..)

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:50:27 PM

DarkSteven

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Midnght, you're getting LOTS of responses telling you that you're venturing into dangerous territory. But you're not listening. Are you hoping to get someone to tell you to go ahead and just have fun?

It won't be me.

A woman has breasts, a vagina, a bottom, and all sorts of other lovely spots to play with. I'm gonna stick with them and play safe.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:51:55 PM

Midnght

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght

It's pretty well known to not hit someone in the kidneys.

But do you agree with this as a must never do are is there a way to do this without hurting anyone.

Your thoughts?

This is a MUST NEVER DO.
I AM confident enough I an hit someone just about anywhere without doing intentional damage. Note the word intentional. There is no way to hit someone and not cause UNINTENTIONAL damage with 100% confidence. If there was it wouldnt be called unintentional damange. The kidneys are far far too delicate to mess with. From someone in a family of kidney disease sufferers, when somethig goes wrong there, ther eis nothing but hell afterwards. We are taught in our self defense classes that the kidney shot is an absolute last resort, life and death situaion type thing becasue it will damage your attacker, potentially permanently.
I, for one, am not willing to test my abilities and control and risk breaking my favorite toys.

And re: one of the earlier entries.. why even bother with a tap? If I am going to btoher hitting something, I am going to actually HIT it. I dont tap unless its a warm up. And as to a full back strike with a crop... thats across the back, not aimed at the kidney. You ahve to hit sidelong into them to get around the structures that keep them safe normally... so the general kidney area and an acutal aimed shot at the kidney are quite different.

DV

Oh my breaking a toy. Jeeze that's too damn hard. I've never broken a toy in my life and never will and i can strike hard. But to break one in that area man that's such a no no. If you break it do it over their ass but then perhaps still ask yourself was that the right thing to do. }:>)

< Message edited by Midnght -- 6/16/2008 6:52:29 PM >

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:53:08 PM

Alumbrado

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Kidneys aren't like other parts of the body, which raises safety concerns for a couple of reasons....one, they are in the process of filtering out toxic subtances from the body, and that isn't the sort of thing you want to have suddenly leaking from a rupture. Also they are primarily a bunch of hollow/filter like structures and can't deal with incoming force the same way striated mucscles can... i.e. they can't tense up and 'take' a blow.

There was a hazing case in Florida a few years ago where a prospective marching band member was hit on the butt cheeks with a heavy paddle so many times that renal failure ensued...from the shock wave effect.

Specific to a flogger and damage...a single hit glancing hit, unlikely... a cumulative effect from multiple strikes landing straight in with all the falls landing in a bunch, building up to bruising or worse... very possible.

Wouldn't recomend trying to find the 'too much' point though.

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:53:18 PM

GreedyTop

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Mdnight..I believe the 'toy'she was talking about breaking was her sub

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RE: The Kidneys - 6/16/2008 6:53:23 PM

azropedntied

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Things i do not wish to hear include " i think i need to see a Dr "-I think i should go to the ER "- she is passed out and not breathing"- involuntary manslaughter " !Which is why my bdsm exchanges are safe .. i have yet to hear any of those phrases nor shall i ever due to my hand .adding too i do not wish to also say those things either .So potential partners shall hold my care in mind too .
Greedy do you have a diagram of those positions posted yet ?