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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/17/2008 9:22:47 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

..... Blaming the victim first arose in the 1960's with the Moynihan Report, and further in the blistering attack on the liberal Democrat ideology by a black American William Ryan in his book entitled 'Blaming the victim'. But through since the 1960's it has managed to seep it's way right through into society via political parties, charities, cop-orations and the media, often so much so that it would appear from a certain perspective to be part of society, part of the national psyche. But is it really?...

Thoughts and comments please..





Please tell me no one is actually falling for this....



Just kittinsol ....

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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/17/2008 11:33:48 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I seem to be saying being the operative word here; it's unfortunate that these generalisations go on, don't you think?

What I will say, however, is that people fixating on welfare abusers and other such soft targets are missing out on the really big abusers of the system who merrily go about their way of screwing everybody else - including those that whinge about welfare recipients.

It's called demagogy. And our world relies immensely on it.


Kittin, to kind of get back to the OP here, look at the "country" of Zimbabwe that's been in the News almost every day for the last three months now, like we in the West are supposed to "care."
If we went in there and threw out all those people and 10 million Americans, Europeans or Australians took over, within three years there'd be roads, hospitals, schools, courthouses, mining operations, factories, shopping malls, and a thriving economy!
Where there was desert and jungle there'd be agriculture operations.
One of the reasons and maybe the most important reason that these things would happen is because those 10 million would establish a country of "laws."
You have to understand that that concept is "foreign" (sic) in many foreign countries and consequently they are fucked!
I met a Teacher up in N.H. who used to work for the "U.N." teaching in Africa.
She said she was there to "teach the teachers there how to teach, not to teach "for" them which is what ended up happening."
She quit after one year.
They need to get up off of their asses and "do" things, or not, I really couldn't care less!
You can keep pouring "foreign aid" into those countries for the "next" 50 years and not get any more results than we have in the first 50!
Some people seem to think we should feel "guilty" in the West because we use more of the earth's "resources" than other areas of the earth. Why?
Oh, I wonder how that Zimbweian Space Program's comming?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/17/2008 11:37:28 PM >


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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/17/2008 11:58:05 PM   
pinksugarsub


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Stella it was an interesting but flawed Op, IMO.
 
The 'topic' is -- or maybe is not -- Yr basic premise.  i couldn't tell.
 
You never discuss the logical result:  a completely uunpopulated country, as the existing population dies without first bearing any children in the USA.
 
Yr did not provide any links to source materials for the 'factoids' you rely on in Yr reasoning.
 
IMO, yr reasoning suffers from many departures of the rules of logic.
 
The Rules of Logic are presented here:
 
http://www.philosophyclass.com/logic.htm
 
A good reference work on The Rules of Logic is 'Logic' by Pierre Nicole, which is relatively inexpensive.
 
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=Book+on+The+Rules+of+Logic&cid=7646559497607246639
 
Yr obviously bright and well-informed; IMO you just need to polish your writing skills a little to better communicate your thoughts.
 
i did enjoy reading the Op.
 
pinksugarsub 


< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/18/2008 12:04:17 AM >


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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/18/2008 12:41:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Finally, before one even tries to blame Americans for their 'beliefs,' I would point out with more than enough historic proof, that the British Empire had one of the best records in the world for using up the natural resources of a colony and granting independance only after there was nothing left.  Case in point, India.

When the British granted India independance, there was absolutely nothing left that the Indian government could build an economy on.



I completely agree with you that the British Empire was exploitative, I would say for awhile when it was the possession of the merchant adventurers it was 100% exploitative.  Once it was nationalized it became less exploitative and the idea of duty to empire was created and many admirable people did their best in a Victorian patronizing way to improve the lives of the people in their power. It was the British Empire that fought a war (alone) against slavery. It was to Britain a slave could escape to freedom.

As for your claim that Britain granted India independence when there was nothing left, that is totally rediculous, Britain mainly used India as a market, forcing them to buy British products which was why Ghandi said it was every Indian's patriotic duty to weave cloth. The British left India after WWII because the socialists came to power in Britain and wanted to get rid of the Empire, apart from that, Britain asked the British Indian Imperial Army to fight for freedom, it then couldn't turn round and say they (Indians) couldn't have freedom. In fact most of the infrastructure in use in India today, was actually built and designed by the British. The idea of India being a political entity (as opposed to a cultural one which it was already recognized by the Indians as such) was actually a British idea so without the British Empire, India wouldn't exist today and neither would Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand and many other countries. The British Empire was a mixed bag, and as I have already pointed out, when the corruption of the capitalists got too much, the British government stepped in, nationalized it and took over governance of the Empire and did what was seen in Victorian times as the right thing. Of course, from where we stand, the Victorian right thing doesn't look to good but in Victorian times honour and duty (as well as a good dose of hypocrisy) was there for all to see. Many Indian historians have given a lot of credit to the British after the nationalization of the Empire, the Indian Empire being one as much of cooperation. Britain only had 40,000 troops and 40,000 civil servants in India at the height of the empire, not enough to hold down an hostile country the size of india, of course, a little divide and rule came into play.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 6/18/2008 12:44:09 AM >


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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/18/2008 1:53:01 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
If we went in there and threw out all those people and 10 million Americans, Europeans or Australians took over, within three years there'd be roads, hospitals, schools, courthouses, mining operations, factories, shopping malls, and a thriving economy!

Indeed?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Where there was desert and jungle there'd be agriculture operations.

What for?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
One of the reasons and maybe the most important reason that these things would happen is because those 10 million would establish a country of "laws."

How many people in the USA, respectively England, are in prison?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
You have to understand that that concept is "foreign" (sic) in many foreign countries and consequently they are fucked!

They are fucked because their economies are deeply into  foreign dept and because their societies are destabilized by foreign interventions that put bad rulers in charge of their countries and that finance armed opposition against good governments.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I met a Teacher up in N.H. who used to work for the "U.N." teaching in Africa.
She said she was there to "teach the teachers there how to teach, not to teach "for" them which is what ended up happening."

She was probably teaching males.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
You can keep pouring "foreign aid" into those countries for the "next" 50 years and not get any more results than we have in the first 50!

I am quite convinced that foreign aid has the ulterior motive to fuck up those countries. They would have been better off without it.

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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/18/2008 6:37:20 AM   
orfunboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

hmmmmmm lets see, she hasnt eaten for a week so she can buy party food for her three kids joint birthday party even tho their birthdays are four months apart
Lucy


You missed the part where she bought the food stamps from the pot head down the street. No one said she hasn't eaten in a week or that the food stamps were hers.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 6/18/2008 6:41:23 AM   
Lucylastic


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just a scenario from real  life..nothing more.....perception isnt always the truth and people see the same thing in many different ways.

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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 10/19/2010 1:24:24 PM   
Jaybeee


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Naaahhh. I've met a few very nice ones, they might go on to produce more nice ones. Opportunity cost of doing away with millions of morons doesn't match the loss of some damn good future citizens.

Muzzles, I think, for the second group, would be a more humane solution.


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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 10/19/2010 2:20:07 PM   
hlen5


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My goodness, why dig up this moldering corpse of a thread??

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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 10/19/2010 4:07:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

It is known that it is official policy in the capitalist culture of America to have a permanent unemployment rate of 5 per cent, and it would appear that many Western countries have adopted this strategy. The actual rate of unemployment is typically higher than the official rate. When the unemployment rate drops below this level the Federal Reserve will step in to 'cool down the overheated economy' by jacking up interest rates until more people lose their jobs and the rate of unemployment is once again fixed at its ideal rate. The ideal rate of unemployment is one that keeps a steady supply of workers available while keeping their wages down - in other words rather than a 'seller's' market where workers could set their price, unemployment is permanently maintained in the economy so as to establish a permanent 'buyer's' market which favours the employer who can offer less in wages, even demand cuts in wages, backed up by millions of unemployed people who provide a kind of surplus which keeps workers in line, as they can be easily replaced. Here again you see the victim blaming strategies, blaming people for being on welfare, unemployed, being caught in welfare traps and so on, and this is heavily supported by the media.


I not reading this entire rant closely enough to untangle its pile of assumptions.

But this one paragraph, quickly, is your misunderstanding. "Natural Unemployment" is not some dastardly maintained labor pool. Quite the contrary--it's that in any given market period, some workers will naturally be in flux, as old markets die and new ones are created, causing workers to retrain and change jobs (or entrepreneurs to change businesses). Nor is it pegged at any number, let alone 5%--it's an unknown figure, previously thought to be around 6% until the "Goldilocks" economy of the 1990s. Realistically, there will never be zero unemployment. And it has nothing to do with growth or recession, but with long-term structural market changes.

Now, separately, are policies creating a (or more of a) class structure in the U.S.? Sure. But that's a separate issue, and for separate reasons.


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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 10/19/2010 4:07:48 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

So does China. Parts of South America. There are other countries bent on self-destruction in Africa. On and on.

My question is why use the US as example when oh golly gee we could sterilize Africa and rid ourselves of having to assist the multitude of countries there that are in horrendous disarray and disease ridden to boot?

That is why my response to the OP was WTF is your problem with America. It still is my response.



When you are at the top of the hill you become an easy target. Little more than jealousy.

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RE: Should all Americans be sterilized? - 10/19/2010 4:38:06 PM   
VideoAdminRho


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Two and a half year old thread, folks. If you want to discuss the topic further, please start a new one.

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