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RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 5:38:09 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		How do I say this in regards to war, fear and FEAR.

I am weary over being scared to death.   I am tired of the negative "we are doomed" tone of the 2000s.  I am tired of  the "crises" mode.

I am psyched out by it.   The fact is, I have my own problems and issues.  I as a lone person can not with a stroke of a pen make the world a better place.   For crying out loud, I cant hang windows, get the truck running, get the power window on the car to go up, get TOTALLY organized.  Or even wake up in time to make a non-refundable flight to see family.

I pathetically am tired or being, breathing and living pathetic-ism.

Whats more- I am tired of business as usual...where experts acrimoniously flatter themselves and offer us non-answers.

I am perplexed that anyone would give Repulicans a 3rd chance to govern efficiently.

I am perplexed that all serious debate in this country is reduced to a soundbite or anti-dote.

I tuned out of the war.   The soldiers being killed are down, why?  Because they fake their patrols.  They figured out they as a unit wont be a sitting duck to booby traps and snipers, unnecessarily.

Yet- nothing is anyone's fault.  PP and L rate increase of 42% is nobodies fault.  UGI [gas co] increase of 6.9% is nobodies fault. 

Meanwhile- congress has recieved VIP treatment from countrywide mortgages.  It makes one wonder what bear stearns trnquatrys that congress basked in too.

It is getting harder to convince me that the rulers represent real lone individuals in America.  I wonder if the "managers" were outsourced if perhaps the peon would get better representation.


See you at the gas pump.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 7:02:46 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

Firm:

Ya know, you really can't blame these poor people for being completely clueless as to what's happening in Iraq, post-surge.

After all, they depend on a largely left-biased news media to tell them what to think, and it appears that the media has been mostly ignoring events in Iraq for quite some time now.  That should've been their first clue that something was up, of course, but give 'em a break -- they have years of conditioning to overcome.





Well the media is just reporting reality.So I guess it`s clear that reality has a well know liberal bias.

I recall when the rightests were complaining that the media spent to much time on Iraq.


Make up yer minds already!


Strange how some attempt to blame corporate media outlets,lol, for all the trouble that  Bush and neo-cons have gotten us into.lol

If only all media was like Fox News,then Bush wouldn`t be such a fuck up.lol

Try again.....

Not even foreigner/rightwinger/FoxNews owner Rupert Murdock, can make a silk purse from a sow`s ear.


          

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/19/2008 7:04:30 AM >

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 7:23:42 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Not even foreigner/rightwinger/FoxNews owner Rupert Murdock, can make a silk purse from a sow`s ear.
         

Nope.  But I hear if you deep fry them they're pretty tasty.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 7:41:56 AM   
CyberDom08


Posts: 24
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		It is soo funny that when a person finds something in the media to support their opinion, they think it is golden but when their opposition finds something in the media to support their position, all of the sudden, it is a fairy tale.

I do believe though that we should plan a strategic withdrawl from Iraq. This will force them to do something on thoer own. Any plan that ivolves the US is going to be tainted. We need to devote our resources to Afagnistan, Iran and other trouble spots through the world. The UN mustget a peace keeping force over there, if it will benefit the world to have a free Iraq, then let the world make it happen.

I think that we are doing good over there but American lives are too important to spend them as we have the past few years.


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 7:53:38 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CyberDom08

I think that we are doing good over there but American lives are too important to spend them as we have the past few years.



It's been proven time and time again that the lives of eighteen old boys with little to no education and a poor economic background are positively disposable. Their lives aren't worth anything to the powers of war. Proof: see how well they're treated when they return to the motherland, broken and sick from combat.

_____________________________



(in reply to CyberDom08)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 8:12:21 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

they have years of conditioning to overcome.



 Too funny.

Because, of course... the war advocates don't  .


Yeah, the warmongers are still up in the trees and pounding their chests.

You would think after a 3 trillion dollar disaster which hasn't served their economy very well, they might stop to wonder why their bananas are so expensive.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 6/19/2008 8:16:18 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 9:30:31 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyberDom08

I think that we are doing good over there but American lives are too important to spend them as we have the past few years.



It's been proven time and time again that the lives of eighteen old boys with little to no education and a poor economic background are positively disposable. Their lives aren't worth anything to the powers of war. Proof: see how well they're treated when they return to the motherland, broken and sick from combat.


So, in your opinion, regardless of whether or not the US should be in Iraq at all ... is the society and the political situation better now than it was a couple of years ago, or not?  If not ... would you please give us at least a couple of reliable sources that you can cite as backup to your beliefs?

Firm

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 9:56:13 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Firm, there is, as you rightly intuit, a declaration forthcoming from Bush. He will declare the war to have been won.  He will be right: its been a success.

The war has cost a mere trillion dollars but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.

Those oilfields are defended by permanent US bases - all now complete - and the powers to be awarded by the Iraqi "parliament" will guarantee US control of Iraqi airspace, the right of arrest and naturally to military action - all without the necessity of approval by the PM.  Success.

OPEC is sounding a more conciliatory note on prices; they've already insulated themselves against the effect on the market of the new contracts about to be handed out during the recent boom.  Success.

Congratulations.  You've just decimated a developing nation and annexed the only natural resource they have with which to repair the damage.  And all in time for the glorious fourth - you  must be thrilled.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 10:39:43 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CyberDom08

The UN mustget a peace keeping force over there, if it will benefit the world to have a free Iraq, then let the world make it happen.



The UN cant keep the peace in Dharfur let alone Iraq. They dont have the political will or the manpower to do so. Its a bit ironic that you call for peace keepers in Iraq so the US can concentrate on Iran, dont you think ?

(in reply to CyberDom08)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 10:59:45 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Politesub, I have to agree with ya on that.  The UN can't blow its nose without asking for support from someone else.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 11:03:39 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Politesub, I have to agree with ya on that.  The UN can't blow its nose without asking for support from someone else.


Duh?

The UN is its members!  How the hell can it ask for support from anyone other than its members?

People who keep complaining about the UN have one of two problems. They are ignorant of what the UN is or they don't want to see the UN work because it interfers with their country's foreign policy.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 11:20:45 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyberDom08

The UN mustget a peace keeping force over there, if it will benefit the world to have a free Iraq, then let the world make it happen.



The UN cant keep the peace in Dharfur let alone Iraq. They dont have the political will or the manpower to do so. Its a bit ironic that you call for peace keepers in Iraq so the US can concentrate on Iran, dont you think ?


As far as Dharfur is concerned it is just one Nation that prohibits action...China. The UN is a good idea that will never work with the veto power of the Security Council .

Butch

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 11:25:28 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Politesub, I have to agree with ya on that.  The UN can't blow its nose without asking for support from someone else.



  True, and by design.It`s not a sovereign nation or a country.

It isn`t a military super-power and never claimed to be everyone`s answer to every problem.

It`s a limited group(to which we are a part)and only does what it can,with the limited resources it has.It can`t and won`t do anything,without help and cooperation and the sanction of it`s members.

The UN`s critics usually don`t see peacekeeping as important and rarely credit the UN when it has some success.

Peacekeeping is a lot harder that war making.

Feeding the starving and hungry isn`t as sexy as shooting guns or blowing up buildings.

Fighting water-born and insect born diseases doesn`t get you as famous as standing on a podium and saying" Mission Accomplished".

But that`s what the UN does,as well as being the whipping boy and scapegoat for conservative sore-losers.


(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 11:40:49 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Owner, I agree with some of what you said.  I make no bones about the fact that I dislike the UN.  I had friends on peacekeeping missions who were forced to wear blue targets .. I mean helmets on their heads and were not allowed to defend themselves when fired upon.  It wasn't until the Australians, I believe, said, "Screw you!  They're shooting," that troops were allowed to fire back. 
I applaude the UN for their efforts at humanitarian aid but I think the peace corps does more good in a week than they do in a year of bickering. 
As for the sexy gun and exploding buildings ..... I've never found that sexy except in the movies where a hot starlet does it.  I can't say the act of blowing stuff up and shooting people is all that hot.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 11:55:58 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Its impossible to keep peace unless both sides want it to happen. China dont want to insist on further action, probabally as they have oil and economic interests in Sudan. My point was a peace keeping mission in Iraq will stand no chance of success, in the present climate. 

quote:

Peacekeeping is a lot harder that war making.   


Owner, if one side dosent want peace under any circumatances, war making, or walking away, are the only answers left.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 3:22:27 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Firm, there is, as you rightly intuit, a declaration forthcoming from Bush. He will declare the war to have been won.  He will be right: its been a success.

The war has cost a mere trillion dollars but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.

Those oilfields are defended by permanent US bases - all now complete - and the powers to be awarded by the Iraqi "parliament" will guarantee US control of Iraqi airspace, the right of arrest and naturally to military action - all without the necessity of approval by the PM.  Success.

OPEC is sounding a more conciliatory note on prices; they've already insulated themselves against the effect on the market of the new contracts about to be handed out during the recent boom.  Success.

Congratulations.  You've just decimated a developing nation and annexed the only natural resource they have with which to repair the damage.  And all in time for the glorious fourth - you  must be thrilled.


You sound jealous.  You from the UK? 

Firm

(ps, more, later, if I have the time.)


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 3:42:40 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You sound jealous.  You from the UK? 



I'm absolutely green with envy.  It's not easy ceding the position of "world's most hated country".  But you make it easier every day.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 4:47:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Firm, there is, as you rightly intuit, a declaration forthcoming from Bush. He will declare the war to have been won.  He will be right: its been a success.

The war has cost a mere trillion dollars but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.

Those oilfields are defended by permanent US bases - all now complete - and the powers to be awarded by the Iraqi "parliament" will guarantee US control of Iraqi airspace, the right of arrest and naturally to military action - all without the necessity of approval by the PM.  Success.

OPEC is sounding a more conciliatory note on prices; they've already insulated themselves against the effect on the market of the new contracts about to be handed out during the recent boom.  Success.

Congratulations.  You've just decimated a developing nation and annexed the only natural resource they have with which to repair the damage.  And all in time for the glorious fourth - you  must be thrilled.


Come on, RL, get a sense of humor.

Back to topic ...

The war has cost a mere trillion dollars
Not particularly expensive, considering both the short term and long term results.  I know, I know ... a few trillion here, a few trillion there, and pretty soon you are talking about real money ...


but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.
Assuming you have some proof of this ... I say good.  What you are really talking about is the free market is again working in Iraq.  Bully for them (and us) from bringing this wealth and happiness generating system into that part of the world.


Those oilfields are defended by permanent US bases - all now complete
Great!  They can join our other bases in about 130 countries around the world.


and the powers to be awarded by the Iraqi "parliament" will guarantee US control of Iraqi airspace, the right of arrest and naturally to military action - all without the necessity of approval by the PM.
Again, assuming you are correct, without any sources ... so what?  Show me the terms of a signed and negiotated treaty between the Iraqi government and the US, and we can discuss the specifics.  As far as the possible items you mentioned:

1. US control of Iraqi airspace: Is the Iraqi Air Force prepared to defend it's air space?
2. the right of arrest and naturally to military action: So?  It's still a war zone, isn't it?  Doncha think that the power will shift over time, as they did in Germany, Japan, Korea and other places?  Or is it that you prefer to remove the US's military forces's ability to finish the war, and to protect themselves?
3. all without the necessity of approval by the PM.:  I'd assume a treaty is negotiated, and eventually signed by the government?

OPEC is sounding a more conciliatory note on prices; they've already insulated themselves against the effect on the market of the new contracts about to be handed out during the recent boom.
Gee ... I thought you were on the side of the political spectrum that wants oil prices high, so that alternative sources of energy will be developed?  Doesn't this help, then?  It even assist in the long term fight against Global Warming!

Or were you one of the "Blood for Oil" crowd, instead, where the US was only in Iraq to "steal" their oil?  I guess we didn't do so well there, now did we?



You've just decimated a developing nation and annexed the only natural resource they have with which to repair the damage.
"decimated"?  "annexed the only natural resource" (oil, I assume)?  How does that square with all the other stuff you said?

Go take a chill pill, RL.  You are just unhappy that things seem to be turning out ok in Iraq after all.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 4:58:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Come on, RL, get a sense of humor.



People dying is funny...

quote:

ORIGINAL FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL RealityLicks

but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.



Assuming you have some proof of this ...



They're sharing the cake alright... Deals with Iraq are sent to bring oil giants back .

Right-wing humour sucks  .

_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/19/2008 5:38:17 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Come on, RL, get a sense of humor.



People dying is funny...

quote:

ORIGINAL FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL RealityLicks

but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.



Assuming you have some proof of this ...



They're sharing the cake alright... Deals with Iraq are sent to bring oil giants back .

Right-wing humour sucks  .


Link.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 40
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