Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 6:01:36 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Go take a chill pill, RL.  You are just unhappy that things seem to be turning out ok in Iraq after all.

Firm



Take a chill pill?  Surely no-one's used that since the last oil crisis?  Remember, a little irony goes a long way.

Since things are going so well, there should be no requirement for police and military powers to be ceded to western armies.  Or for the privatisation of the Iraqi peoples' oil wealth. 

These measures are obviously designed to increase US oil security; their achievement a foregone conclusion on day one, against a hopelessly outmatched and inadequate Iraqi army.  Since creating children's graves in that endeavour is clearly acceptable to you, I'd ask whether crowing over them isn't repugnant.  But I know the answer won't be worth reading.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 6:25:02 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Go take a chill pill, RL.  You are just unhappy that things seem to be turning out ok in Iraq after all.

Firm



Take a chill pill?  Surely no-one's used that since the last oil crisis?  Remember, a little irony goes a long way.

Since things are going so well, there should be no requirement for police and military powers to be ceded to western armies.  Or for the privatisation of the Iraqi peoples' oil wealth. 

These measures are obviously designed to increase US oil security; their achievement a foregone conclusion on day one, against a hopelessly outmatched and inadequate Iraqi army.  Since creating children's graves in that endeavour is clearly acceptable to you, I'd ask whether crowing over them isn't repugnant.  But I know the answer won't be worth reading.


Good job RL.

The part about crowing, was quite poignant.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 6:47:14 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Cheers, Owner. 

And now unfortunately, back to the scheduled programming.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 7:13:13 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		No, don't leave us, Licks!

_____________________________



(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 7:44:21 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


but with the imminent agreement in the Iraqi "parliament" to the hydrocarbon law, US and other oil companies will gain rights to thirty trillion dollars worth of oil.  Success.
Assuming you have some proof of this ... I say good.  What you are really talking about is the free market is again working in Iraq.  Bully for them (and us) from bringing this wealth and happiness generating system into that part of the world.



Those oilfields are defended by permanent US bases - all now complete
Great!  They can join our other bases in about 130 countries around the world.



and the powers to be awarded by the Iraqi "parliament" will guarantee US control of Iraqi airspace, the right of arrest and naturally to military action - all without the necessity of approval by the PM.

Again, assuming you are correct, without any sources ... so what?  Show me the terms of a signed and negiotated treaty between the Iraqi government and the US, and we can discuss the specifics.  As far as the possible items you mentioned:

Firm



Don't you read or listen to the news or doesn't the American media report this sort of stuff?  The Iraqi Parliament is seething with resentment over the stitch up between Washington and their Iraqi puppet government.

Bush is just sowing the seeds of further unrest in the future. You know, like Iran and its lingering resentment at American policies it imposed on it for the best part of thirty years.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 8:16:49 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I used to follow a BAGHDAD BURNING, a blog by a woman living in IRAQ, but she moved out in OCT 2007.

She always put things in a very eye opening way,

I remember Baghdad before the war- one could live anywhere. We didn't know what our neighbors were- we didn't care. No one asked about religion or sect. No one bothered with what was considered a trivial topic: are you Sunni or Shia? You only asked something like that if you were uncouth and backward. Our lives revolve around it now. Our existence depends on hiding it or highlighting it- depending on the group of masked men who stop you or raid your home in the middle of the night.

As for the media debate, I don't really trust any Western media to report well on IRAQ, namely because its still not safe enough there to operate a news service that can go out and get the facts, develop sources, and otherwise report on what's happening.

Iraq Today is still up and running: horrible things are still happening everyday. Given such daily events, what would constitute "improvement" or "normalization" in IRAQ?

Also, if things were really so great, wouldn't we be implementing some kind of withdrawal? Why wouldn't the blogger of Baghdad Burning be moving back?

Why don't the architects of this mess show any contrition?

Here's a nice Rice clip too.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/20/2008 8:50:53 AM >

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 2:24:51 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the links, cloud boy.  The injury and casualty counts are not going to stop anytime in the near future.  According to "Iraq Today" that is more than
1 million Iraqis dead.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 2:34:51 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR:

And all of you are going to great pains to avoid answering the question, and intentionally missing my point.

Are things going better today, then they were a couple of years ago?

So far, kittin has ducked the question twice, and everyone else is just having fun demonstrating their "moral superiority" as a way of giving a "non-answer" answer.

Personally, I live in a world where to be effective, you don't pine for the "what could have beens", but start work from the "what is".  And I've no interest in playing the hypocritical "My shit don't stink" game with ya'll. 

Seems to be a lonely place in this thread.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 3:05:38 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		OK Firm... things in my opinion are better then 2 years ago... but are they better for the Iraqi people then 7 years ago. And should people change their stand or reasons for their opposition to the war just because only a few die every day rather then hundreds.

Butch

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 3:33:14 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Are things going better today, then they were a couple of years ago?



Surprising anyone would reiterate such an innane question. Of course things aren't 'going better' - unless you're talking about the oil companies. Things are going better for them.

You can quote opinion pieces and nuggets of filtered information from your fave websites ad nauseam, it won't make the situation any better for the Iraqi people, their hundreds of thousands of refugees, one hundred thousand civilian deaths - a conservative estimate - , and nor will it improve the situation for the four thousand dead American soldiers or the ones that are irreparably maimed and damaged by the 'confict'.

'Going better' - in a blind, deaf, wishful man's world, perhaps.

_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/20/2008 3:57:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


Are things going better today, then they were a couple of years ago?


How can any of us answer?

If you're interested, I'd suggest you ask the families of the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dead Iraqis if things are going better today.

Because you can't ask the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dead Iraqis, can you?

And since, to quote some guy named Springsteen, about NOLA, but just as appropriate...

"Them who's got, got out of town
and them who ain't, got left to drown"

You'd have to track down the refugees who had the resources to 'Git Outta Dodge' and put the question to them. How many millions of displaced people is that again?

And I *always* hated the "White Mon's Burden" overtones of the whole "liberation of Iraq"... If them I-raqis *wanted* to be Free of Hussein's Rule, they would have had their *own* Revolution on their own dime.

You know, based on the thousands and thousands and thousands dead, and the millions displaced from their homes and nation, I think I can answer that things suck much more now than they did under Hussein's rule.





< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/20/2008 4:04:47 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 2:04:49 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Are things going better today, then they were a couple of years ago?



You'd be taken more seriously if you asked if things were better than 2001.

And the answer to that question is no. Just ask the average Iraqi.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 5:25:10 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Are things going better today, then they were a couple of years ago?


How can any of us answer?

If you're interested, I'd suggest you ask the families of the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dead Iraqis if things are going better today.

Because you can't ask the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dead Iraqis, can you?

And since, to quote some guy named Springsteen, about NOLA, but just as appropriate...

"Them who's got, got out of town
and them who ain't, got left to drown"

You'd have to track down the refugees who had the resources to 'Git Outta Dodge' and put the question to them. How many millions of displaced people is that again?

And I *always* hated the "White Mon's Burden" overtones of the whole "liberation of Iraq"... If them I-raqis *wanted* to be Free of Hussein's Rule, they would have had their *own* Revolution on their own dime.

You know, based on the thousands and thousands and thousands dead, and the millions displaced from their homes and nation, I think I can answer that things suck much more now than they did under Hussein's rule.


Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 5:49:04 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either


Did Bush's invasion and occupation result in the death and displacement of more Iraqis than Hussein's Government?



quote:


....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?


Making up lies? Is *that* all you got in response? Your argument is so weak, you're reduced to fabricating quotes, and maliciously attributing them?

Provide the DIRECT QUOTE FROM ME with that claim, or PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE FOR LYING ABOUT MY STATEMENTS.

MODERATORS please take note of this defamatory act.


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/21/2008 5:53:33 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 6:06:58 AM   
pinkieplum


Posts: 84
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

I never could understand the thinking behind suicide bombings. To me it's just sad.

I don't remember the ones in Viet Nam, but I was more into getting high back then.

Hey Pink, what year did you graduate in?


You were a wild child, orfunboi, lol....smoking dope in high school.  *Sniffs*  i waited till i was in college, lol. 
 
i thought i was wild in high school because i smoked cigarettes and wore jeans -- our principal was a little nutty on the subject of girls in pants, as if mini-skirts weren't provactive, lol.
 
Here's a link you may find useful::
 
http://www.progress.org/2004/fpif48.htm
 
i graduated high school in the early '70's, you nosey parker, he he.
 
pinkieplum

(in reply to orfunboi)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 6:44:54 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkieplum

Here's a link you may find useful::
 
http://www.progress.org/2004/fpif48.htm
 
i graduated high school in the early '70's, you nosey parker, he he.


There are many similarities between any two wars.  There are also differences. Just making some parallels ignores the differences.

And, btw, that article was written at least on or prior to Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:42:50 PM - which is it's last "Modified" date when you check it's "Page Info" in Firefox.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to pinkieplum)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 7:46:36 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?


hehe. Excellent point.

And another is ... what price freedom?

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 9:27:38 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?


hehe. Excellent point.

And another is ... what price freedom?

Firm



YOU cannot free *anyone* until YOU have enslaved them. If they're chattel, then you have to steal them from their owner FIRST before you can transfer title to themselves.

If the Iraqi People didn't want Hussein in power, they could have removed him at any time.

I don't see "Free Iraq" in the Constitution or Amendments, so it isn't the US Treasury's or Military's price to pay, is it?

What price in AMERICAN BLOOD AND TREASURE for something the Iraqis didn't want?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/21/2008 9:28:25 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 11:12:16 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?


hehe. Excellent point.

And another is ... what price freedom?

Firm



Freedom? How is it that rightwing Americans always seem to have the monopoly on the definition of freedom?

You can't free the people you have killed.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq - 6/21/2008 11:55:23 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Good point... and you can't ask all the people that Hussein killed anything either


Did Bush's invasion and occupation result in the death and displacement of more Iraqis than Hussein's Government?



quote:


....oh wait, don't we have your word that none of that ever happened?


Making up lies? Is *that* all you got in response? Your argument is so weak, you're reduced to fabricating quotes, and maliciously attributing them?

Provide the DIRECT QUOTE FROM ME with that claim, or PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE FOR LYING ABOUT MY STATEMENTS.

MODERATORS please take note of this defamatory act.



Let's see... didn't you also claim that someone was lying about your 'put a bullet in the head of every cop' quote..even though that quote was produced?


But if you will produce the quote where I made such an assertion, instead of asking you a question, go for it.
Otherwise, I'll just learn from the past, and deduce that you can't answer the question, and are engaged in a frenetic dance to deflect attention away from it...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: More Chaos and Death in Iraq Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094