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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 5:05:05 PM

Irishknight

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I'm not accusing them of profiteering even though they have the ability to pump more oil from many of these wells. In fact, it makes good business sense to a point. I am merely stating that there are many wells that can be pumped without drilling new ones.
I spoke to a man only a few weeks ago who had worked drilling wells. He said they would drill and cap, drill and cap. He asked why they didn't pump the oil and was told that the cost of drilling was only going to rise so they wanted to drill then at those prices and sell later at what would be our current prices or higher.
As Musicalboredom said, its not as financially sound for them to start pumping again. They can still do better selling someone else's oil.

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)

Post #: 21

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 5:13:48 PM

MusicalBoredom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Musical, have the oil cos expenses gone up 100% from $2 per gallon to $4 per gal?
I though they were getting "more efficient" like they tell us in their ads?

I wish I knew their formula. I would think their expenses have changes very little on oil they produce.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 22

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 5:24:02 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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Lou Dobbs is being a bit conservative on his estimate of off shore oil, nobody really knows for sure is sitting just off the coastlines.

But, here is the rub.

It is not that the Dems dont want to drill for that oil, or that it is hard to get to, but that it is an ecologically sensitive area.

Unlike the old, close to shore platforms which actually had legs touching bottem to avoid sinking, the ones used further out float.

Now, anything that floats can sink or capsize, please look at all the drilling platforms that have done just that.

So the naturalists, enviromentalists, fishing industry all want some guarantee that what has happened in the northsea often enough wont happen off our shores.

Cant really say that I blame them, can you? The last major oil spill off the Texas gulf coast came from a well drilled off mexico that had what is known as a blowout, i.e they hit a pocket of high pressure gas, which ruptured the drill coller and the rest is history.

That was in the early 80's. The fishing grounds still havent recovered fully, and in some areas, the shrimp is toxic. The same is true for the area where the Exxon Valdez ran aground.

Now, for anyone that does not know how a gulf coast commercial fishing boat owner lives, it is season to season. His income depends on good fishing grounds. If the fishing grounds are polluted, the goes broke.

So the economics is not that simple. Do we jeopardize one industry to make it easy for another? Oil companies just have to pay for cleanup, they dont have to pay for lost incomes due to the spill.

FYI, before the North Sea oil fields were open, Scandanavian and British 'coasters' made good money fishing the north sea. Since the field was opened, and the accidents that happened, most of the fish caught there is tainted and has to be destroyed. Did wonders for all those people's incomes that lived on that fishing industry.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 5:26:29 PM

lronitulstahp

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if i may paraphrase...

...fishermen??? What fishemen???

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Post #: 24

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 7:24:54 PM

cjan

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I don't know that all Doms are against oil drilling and exploration. I just want it done in an ecologically responsible way, yanno ?

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 25

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 7:31:09 PM

Owner59

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Fast relpy...

We use 25 % of the world`s oil.

We hold in the US ,2 % of the world`s oil.

Do the math.

This is a red haring and an election ploy.Not a solution to our energy problems.

(in reply to cjan)

Post #: 26

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:17:22 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

if i may paraphrase...

...fishermen??? What fishemen???

Look, going after offshore oil isnt as easy as it once was. The stuff close ashore has been hit, now they have to go further out to drill.

Now, if those wells suffer a blowout or rupture, the oil spill will follow the gulf stream (which begins at the Yucatan) around the gulf, through the strait of florida, and up the eastern seaboard.

Unlike when a tanker goes aground where there is x amount of oil to be recovered, in the situation of an oil rig, there is an UNLIMITED amount of oil that could spill.

Now:
Gulf of Mexico Fishing grounds + major oil spill from well head= bye bye fishing industry.

quote:

DomKen
Like I pointed out in the other thread trying to make hay based on GWB's lies, there are proven capped fields on dry land in the US which could be up and pumpin in much less time than it would take to begin drilling offshore. Now why isn't there a west Texas oil boom?

That is easy, way back in the days of Ronald Reagan, he came up with this thing called trickle down economics, aka Reaganomics. To achieve this, he decided to pass a new law that deregulated the oil industry in the US.
But, he did not want them to go nuts with oil prices, so there was a cap set on old oil (oil from existing wells and fields) at $42 a barrell.

Meaning it costs more to pump it and refine it than it is worth.

quote:

DomKen
Where's the scramble to reopen the fields in Mississippi and Loiusiana? The field in Pennsylvania might be economical at these prices.

Actually, we go back to the fact that there is a cap on the old oil.

New oil pumped from new fields, the price is allowed to float with the world market, but the problem is that some of that oil is so deep no one has figured out 1) how to get to it, and 2) how to get it up.

Along the south Texas border with mexico, there is a large area where oil is known to exist. A test well was drilled in the late eighties. They went down to about 15000 feet and hit a bonanza.

Dont sound bad at all, until you realize that in the last 5000 feet, they were averaging a broken bit, or sheared drill stem every 50 to 100 feet. Every time that happens you have to have a special team come out and 'fish' for the piece, pull it up so you can start drilling again.

What was causing the problems was a rock formation called the Del Rio Plate, broken up bed rock consisting of granite, limestone, copmpressed clay that has been turned to rock by pressure. All because a few million years ago, Texas was on the floor of an ocean.
The fact the entire area is crisscrossed with faults which are part of the system that smashes Mexico city every now and again.

Now, who ever comes up with an economical way to drill the Del Rio Plate could probably make a couple of billion dollars.... Problem is that everyone that has tried has gone bankrupt.

Yeah, there is a lot more oil than the public is informed about under the states, at least looking at the geology surveys, but it is so deep and so hard to get to, it might as well be on the moon.

And there is a lake of oil that is off the Pacific coast that stretches from LA to about mid Oregon. Every time they want to drill, the Sierra club and every other enviromental organization screams bloody murder.

Funny thing about that field, you can use the old fashioned plateforms that sit on the bottem. Chance of catastrophic failure, virtually nill, unless the entire San Andraes Fault ruptures at the same time... but then no one in California would really care, sense the entire California coast would be a disaster area.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 27

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:20:10 PM

lronitulstahp

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errm...the little emoticon

<-------- was supposed to indicate that i was joking...i borrowed part of your signature to emphasize my point.

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Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 28

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:35:40 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

errm...the little emoticon<-------- was supposed to indicate that i was joking...i borrowed part of your signature to emphasize my point.

Sorry, recovering from having two teeth pulled.... sense of humor sucks, in fact my general attitude sucks....

Now if I could just make a voodoo doll of the dentist who is not willing for the novacaine to start working, everything would be right in the world, or if he developed a case of hemorhoids and boils on his ass, that would be devine justice.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 29

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:44:51 PM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

errm...the little emoticon<-------- was supposed to indicate that i was joking...i borrowed part of your signature to emphasize my point.

Sorry, recovering from having two teeth pulled.... sense of humor sucks, in fact my general attitude sucks....

Now if I could just make a voodoo doll of the dentist who is not willing for the novacaine to start working, everything would be right in the world, or if he developed a case of hemorhoids and boils on his ass, that would be devine justice.

aww...hugs. Water under the bridge...pun intended... my great grandmother was into santeria...if i tie a ken doll to a twig or something, and burn his ass with matches, it may help...not sure.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 30

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:45:13 PM

Owner59

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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

errm...the little emoticon<-------- was supposed to indicate that i was joking...i borrowed part of your signature to emphasize my point.

Sorry, recovering from having two teeth pulled.... sense of humor sucks, in fact my general attitude sucks....

Now if I could just make a voodoo doll of the dentist who is not willing for the novacaine to start working, everything would be right in the world, or if he developed a case of hemorhoids and boils on his ass, that would be devine justice.

"dentist who is not willing for the novacaine ,"

One question,....the key....is it safe?......

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 31

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 8:49:39 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"dentist who is not willing for the novacaine ,"
One question,....the key....is it safe?......

A) I have no idea bout no key.

B) If I had information about this nonexistant key, I would make sure that someone was kicking your door in right about ......

C) I would also be getting new passport, id, cash, clothes, cash, files that should not exist, cash... did I mention cash?

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 6/18/2008 8:51:07 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 32

RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 9:26:44 PM

smilingjaguar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Like I pointed out in the other thread trying to make hay based on GWB's lies, there are proven capped fields on dry land in the US which could be up and pumpin in much less time than it would take to begin drilling offshore. Now why isn't there a west Texas oil boom? Where's the scramble to reopen the fields in Mississippi and Loiusiana? The field in Pennsylvania might be economical at these prices.

Mainly because the capped wells around here have been capped due to noncompliance with environmental rules. Fines were involved, and many of the owners in my area refuse to allow them to be opened due to the headaches. They've got to WANT to open those fields, and not many do. Due to environmental rules as well, many would take a significant amount of reworking/redrilling to be up to snuff. Probably not financially worth it for the owners. We have a good bit of oil around here with untapped areas suitable for drilling, and those who have those surveys and own the rights get harrassed constantly but aren't offered enough for the headache/mess on their land. Less than a penny on the dollar...

I think opening the coasts to drilling is a good idea, and I'm mostly a democrat. I don't think it would help as much as people think, though, because right now offshore oil rigs are having hell finding/affording skilled help for production work. Two years ago someone with no experience wouldn't get anywhere with these companies. Now the companies are desperate to have bodies on the rigs and willing to train. Sir's pay has more than doubled in 4 years partly because of promotions but right now a good number of really experienced "lifers" are leaving and there just aren't enough skilled people to take their place. Experience goes to the highest bidder and it's definitely a worker's market right now. Only one financial news article I have read have pinpointed the cost of production labor as having an influence on oil prices, and it needs to be considered. He could leave right now and probably get $4 to $5 an hour more just for switching companies, but he has a good rig and wants to stay.

There are definitely new wells being drilled every day off Louisiana in the fields Sir has worked or visited. His platform's getting new wells this year, and the last 3 rigs he was on were in the process of drilling new wells or in the planning stages for new wells. One rig's definitely failed...millions on top of millions down the hole, enough to make the usual "oil's a gamble" consolation people choke, and the well never produced a drop...oil was there in staggering amounts but they couldn't keep it warm enough to come up. The others were more successful.

I don't look for it to help because I think oil is artificially being kept high by speculators, OPEC, and oil companies that won't expand refining capacity compounded by a really pathetically weak US dollar. We have to get new leadership with a new way of thinking economically and a new way of dealing with energy companies and OPEC. Pissing everyone off for 7 years now has definitely not helped the situation. I don't believe there is a single significant difference between McCain and Bush, and that's why I can't vote for him.

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 9:59:15 PM

gina0055

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...edited because I changed my mind.

< Message edited by gina0055 -- 6/18/2008 10:00:58 PM >

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/18/2008 10:43:29 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Capped oil field are usually capped because the at the time current technology can't get the oilout of the ground in a cost effective manner.
The difference between easy oil and hard oil. Hippie kinkster can back that up to a great extent. There is oil in many plaes that simply hasnt been feasible to get at untl the price gets up a bit. I remember when Texas fields were capped back in the 90's when oil dropped bellow 29/ barrel thy beame economicly infeasable and the Texas state budget was hit hard. Stories abound in the news talking about just that fact. Hard Oil oil that is trapped in the ormation and can only e recovered with expensive technology.

So before claming they are profiteering (which may have somne truth but is certainly not the entire story) lets look at thspecific fields you are claiming can e up and running so quickly and what level of tech is erquired to get it out.

Pretty obvious to me that wells that weren't economically feasible at 29 a barrel propably are feasible at 120 a barrel even with inflation.

Realistically if you were sitting on mineral rights for land known to sit on a proven field that isn't being worked wouldn't you at least be setting up some rigs and seeing how expensive its going to be?

(in reply to Archer)

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/19/2008 1:20:31 AM

meatcleaver

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The best policy for the US would be to stop consuming so much oil. Compared to Germany, Europe's largest and most productive enconomy, the US uses twice as much oil per capita per day. A sign of addiction, not need.

USA 20,730,000 bbl/day

Germany 2,650,000 bbl/day

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/19/2008 5:19:28 AM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've got over a $1000 in bets to that effect. Mostly for the price on June 1 2009 being below $3 a gallon if Senator Obama wins.

I think you're going to be out $1000.

No one out there has a plan that will bring down gas prices quickly and decisively. They're going up because of the war, certainly, but mostly because of the explosion in demand for oil in China and India. Short of subsidies that would further break our already broken economy, the price won't go down by a dollar in a year. I think you're right about the offshore drilling thing - the oil companies won't have a chance to get it through if there is a Democratic president, and that's why they're pushing for it now. They're not the only industry looking to get stuff pushed through before the election. Verizon wants to buy Alltel and is pushing hard to get it done quickly.

Drilling offshore and in ANWAR wouldn't make much difference in gas prices, certainly not in the short term. It would be 5-10 years before any of that oil hit the market. Folks seem to forget that oil prices are a global thing. Any oil we produce will be sold at the global market price, and we can't produce enough to make a substantial dent in that. The demand in China and India is going to keep increasing, and there's nothing we can do about that. We can't even complain about it without being hypocritical. We really don't have any choice but to suck it up and start adjusting to higher prices.

As for conservation, that appears to be happening already. People are driving less. Gas consumption has gone down in the US by nearly 2% in the last 6 months and it's expected that it will keep dropping as people make more adjustments to the higher cost.

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Only a dead fish goes with the flow.

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/19/2008 5:29:39 AM

Archer

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When you put in a well, there is generally X amount of easy oil on top and then as you remove oil each additional barrel you remove actually makes it a little tougher to get to the surface. I know this is the case in some of the wells that are idle.
New technology is always being researched to get the last bits out of wells that have been capped off in the past.
But that technology is limited in production runs it's specialized equipment. It was a laboratory of that sort where they try to figure out ways to get the tough oil out of wells that have been pumped down to the point where they are not profitable with basic tech, that I worked at back in 1998-2000. I can't say it's always the case in these closed fields I'm simply saying some of them are these situations. So often they do the comparisons to decide if they want to deploy the X number of existing things such as surfactant injection units to a specific field, or if it would be more profitable to drill a new well and pump off the top easy oil layers on a new field. Stock price wise it tends to be better for them to tell the stock holders We have More reserves this year than last, compared to we have this new technology that will allow us to get the last drop of oil out of this field.
People who study oil, calculate the recoverable percentage of a field at the technology level available when drilled. And they count only on the oil that is "easy" at the production cost level 1 and then they guess at the production cost levels 2, 3 and even 4 someetimes of the tough oil. But overall they look for the low hanging fruit.

They may have 30 fields of hard oil out there and the cost of locating and tapping the easy oil is often justifiable cost wise when compared to building and employing enough "new tech units" to get the tough oil out of exisiting wells, when calculated on a per barrel production costs.

< Message edited by Archer -- 6/19/2008 5:32:55 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/19/2008 5:31:08 AM

Racquelle

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Many of us on the left (though I am not a Dem), are not opposed to drilling and exploration in and of itself. What I see is the need to balance this with conservation - not raping the environment just so we can lug our corpulence around in huge rolling livingrooms. (Hey, I had a huuuuuuuge SUV myself - so I am not trying to come off like I am not part of the problem.) We also see the benefits of exploring alternatives. I think plenty of people from Left to Right want to see us less dependant on petroleum as a whole, for many reasons. From a purely political standpoint, our need for petroleum puts us in bed with some pretty unsavory characters. (Why am I picturing a crack-whore?) I am not a major environmentalist, but we have a chance to do ourselves and the earth a lot of good by weening ourselves off the big oil titty.

(in reply to MmeGigs)

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/19/2008 5:45:21 AM

rulemylife

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I did stay out too late last night and maybe I'm seeing double, but did anyone else notice there are two threads running ("Bush made it quite plain this time") with the same topic, the same arguments, and many of the same people posting the same opinion?

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 40

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