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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 11:43:50 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

As far as ANWR...

* It was set up in the Carter administration, Democrat House and Senate as a strategic oil reserve. The size/quantity of petroleum was estimated and deemed important enough to preserve through federal mandate, figuring that the projected technology needed to drill and recover the petroleum would be there when the need was there.

You've got two different Alaskan federal areas confused.
ANWR was protected in 1960 as a wildlife preserve, just like the name says.

The National Petroleum Reserve - Alaska (NPR-A) is to the west of ANWR and was designated in 1923 by President Harding. Larger than ANWR and with a larger proven oil field, as in we actually have drilled and found oil there in ANWR that's not true.

As to your other claims, gotten from a petrol industry site?, why not slant drill from NPR-A which is being opened to oil production? Why build roads and pipelines as well as a, by your claim 800+ acre, drilling facility in ANWR when the oil companies could simply drill in the NPR-A?

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)
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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 12:09:03 PM   
MasterHypnotist


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Status: offline 		DomKen,

I just shared what I've picked up over the last couple of years through miscellaneous media, from NPR and conservative radio, to national news media. I could swear that I do remember reading/hearing/researching about ANWR as a high school debater during the time of engineer/President Carter's administration, but ya know how false memories can be.

As far as why they don't horizontal drill from a neighboring site, my GUESS is that it would be illegal because the company wouldn't own "those" mineral rights. If it's all federal land, then it might be a case of writing the legislation that allows it to happen. ~shrugs~

My head scratcher is still... if the world drastically reduces it's use of gasoline... what do we do with (carcinogous and toxic) gasoline, since gasoline IS a byproduct of petroleum distillation? If we're going to burn it, let's get use from those BTUs. We can't let it evaporate, since that releases toxins. Store it? In what, since it is a caustic substance?

I think high prices are wonderful since human's primary reasons to change are to avoid discomfort or move to comfort. Silly thing to say in an environment that includes masochists, I know. ;-)

DomKen, thanks for your info,

MH

< Message edited by MasterHypnotist -- 6/20/2008 12:11:20 PM >

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 12:22:41 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Just as we adjusted the distillation process to produce more gasoline when the ICE became popular we will adjust the process differently and produce vastly less while getting more of the other refinery products that we need. I'm not sure how little gasoline must be produced by the distillation process but it is safe to say that we'll have need for some gasoline for the foreseeable future

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 3:47:26 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I was just thinking about that spill, thonhappy.  And here it is courtesy of the Geology Dept at UCSB.

" On the afternoon of January 29, 1969, an environmental nightmare began in Santa Barbara, California. A Union Oil Co. platform stationed six miles off the coast of Summerland suffered a blowout. Oil workers had drilled a well down 3500 feet below the ocean floor. Riggers began to retrieve the pipe in order to replace a drill bit when the "mud" used to maintain pressure became dangerously low. A natural gas blowout occurred. An initial attempt to cap the hole was successful but led to a tremendous buildup of pressure. The expanding mass created five breaks in an east-west fault on the ocean floor, releasing oil and gas from deep beneath the earth.

For eleven days, oil workers struggled to cap the rupture. During that time, 200,000 gallons of crude oil bubbled to the surface and was spread into a 800 square mile slick by winds and swells. Incoming tides brought the thick tar to beaches from Rincon Point to Goleta, marring 35 miles of coastline. Beaches with off-shore kelp forests were spared the worst as kelp fronds kept most of the tar from coming ashore. The slick also moved south, tarring Anacapa Island's Frenchy's Cove and beaches on Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa and San Miguel Islands. "


http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~jeff/sb_69oilspill/69oilspill_articles2.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

However, there was a spectacular blowout in the Santa Barbara Channel, around 1969. 

thornhappy



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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 3:52:24 PM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		I'd sing the school song if I could remember the foolish thing....go Gauchos!

(well, it's not as lame as a banana slug, fer cryin' out loud!)

thornhappy, class of '82 and '93

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 3:55:18 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

As far as ANWR...

Pass the right legislation with the right incentives, and we'll see hydrogen pumps in every town and hydrogen cars in every dealership.


Hydrogen's a PITA to store.

quote:


Now, here's the bugaboo question...



What are you planning on doing when you've exhausted ANWR's reserves?

Stop-gap measures are just that, and From Where I Sit, you don't get to drill until you have a PLAN for moving forward once you've tapped it out.



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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 4:01:58 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know dems from rups about this shit.

But I will tell you why I am dead set against drilling...

There is no shortage of oil, currently; unless it was announced while I was in the cafeteria because they had fishsticks and ketchup that day, and I missed the newscast, and it was simultaneously announced in the media once and only once when I was playing the drunkard.

No, we have a declining dollar, shitty economy, political instability,  speculation by fear and greed in the options and futures market and dwindling supply.

So, the government gives out more tax free or tax advantaged land to the 'energy producers'  (which they have a shitload now) and what is the incentive for them to find alternate energy sources when they can get free drilling rights, tax breaks,   political clout, and perhaps government subsidy to sell it to us for 10 cents less or some shit?

Note that I am talking about drilling.  Not exploration and assaying. The time to repair the roof is while the sun is shining, we blew that in the Carter years.  The conservation of any reserves we have while coincedentally researching and refining new, obtainable, renewable, cleaner, lower cost energy  sources is now stuff.  Not when it runs out for our children and grandchildren.......

Let it sit in the fucking ground, guys.  If we don't have plans by the time the jig is up with worldwide oil.....then we have a buffer (for us; and you better goddamn believe there will be fellers wanna take it away).

Suck it up!!!!! Human the fuck up!!!!!!  Drilling for new oil right now is like fucking for virginity.

6 


< Message edited by NumberSix -- 6/20/2008 4:03:03 PM >

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 4:06:07 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Suck it up!!!!! Human the fuck up!!!!!!  Drilling for new oil right now is like fucking for virginity.



Just felt like hearing it again.

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 5:46:26 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		The powers that intend to be, having learned well from the history of Rockefeller et al.,  have already gotten a lock on their future profits, and it isn't going to be from old oil wells, or news ones drilled in old places.

They are in a position of being able to wring a few more tons of windfall profits out of the old petro monopolies, while having already drawn up contracts and treaties with the future sources of the world's energy needs.

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 5:51:27 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		SELAH!!!!!!!!

So fuck 'em. 

Drill at your own risk and your own incentive.

Millions for Defense, not a penny in tribute!!!!!

Who said that?  Abraham Lincoln?  He's on a penny.

Isaac Newton, Minister of the Mint



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"Who are you?"
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"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 5:56:19 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Status: offline 		I worked at Exxon for fourteen years, in various departments.  I know that there were many patents that were purchased by Exxon (now ExxonMobil).  At the time, it was assumed they were purchased to shelve any competition, which they were, but I wonder now how many of the patents for the world's future energy needs are already owned by ExxonMobil and other such companies.

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:11:37 PM   
NumberSix


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Status: offline 		Well, I am amused; oft times; that people are so simplistically utopian, or so heiniously deceptive as to believe that a company works against its best interests in the long term.

As it was in the time of Caesar Borja, dispensations will be granted to those who possess money.

Rodrigo Borja  

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"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
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"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:16:05 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Well then  write a book and save the planet, and make millions doing it. Expose those capitalist bastards! That should be a peice of cake for you, as patent information is in the public domain...

And be sure to donate all your proceeds to Greenpeace - you wouldn't want to be like THEM, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I worked at Exxon for fourteen years, in various departments.  I know that there were many patents that were purchased by Exxon (now ExxonMobil).  At the time, it was assumed they were purchased to shelve any competition, which they were, but I wonder now how many of the patents for the world's future energy needs are already owned by ExxonMobil and other such companies.


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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:19:50 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Sanity, I hear your rage against the machine.

However; since I know this patent intimately, who owns the patent for automattcally dialing a telephone line from a system/38 or any system for that matter?

shoot me a link.

Ron

here is a few hints:

He was born and raised in new jersey, if still alive is 90 years old probably, his wifes actual name was Queenie, he drank sambucca with three coffee beans in it, as an after dinner drink (he ate calimari ---------yuck-fuckin'-O) and he sold a nusicance license for his patent to IBM for less than a million (we didn't have to pay a fucking dime) cause we told him how to do it, and it worked.....

not readily available on the net.  find a list of all patents related to fuel economy.


LOL,

Grab for the gusto


< Message edited by NumberSix -- 6/20/2008 6:26:04 PM >

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:25:39 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Walk down to the patent office and find out for us Ron. Or ride a bicycle...

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:32:20 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		I am aghast, I thought it was your position that patents are free and easy common knowledge to the public..........

but, since you brought it up, who exactly owns the patents to a bicycle?

A. Einstein (patent officer, switzerland)  

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:35:43 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		If I could make millions for Greenpeace or the Daily KOS or for the Obama with a little basic research like our friend here, you can bet your ass I'd be grabbing for my Birkenstocks!  Hell, according to him or her, he or she's got all the inside dope already.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/20/2008 6:40:41 PM >

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:41:35 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Hold it right there, smutpeddler...

I will admit (without let or hindrance) to being your friend, but that  admission does not encompass every goddamn patent holder on the boards, Exxon or GreenPeace be damned!

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 6:49:45 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I, sir, am no smutpeddler. I'll have you know I give my smut away, for free!


quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Hold it right there, smutpeddler...

I will admit (without let or hindrance) to being your friend, but that  admission does not encompass every goddamn patent holder on the boards, Exxon or GreenPeace be damned!


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: So why are Dems against oil drilling and exploration - 6/20/2008 7:57:28 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The Democrats have been screaming for the past several years about how America is addicted to foreign oil. Remember Hillary's line? "We borrow money from the Chinese to buy oil from the Saudis."

Yes...and your point is?

So the GOP wants to increase domestic production, exploration, and build more refineries. And the Democrats are blocking it.

Indeed.

Sorry but conservation is not going to work. Of course it will work....it just doesn't do the whole trick.  People are not going to stop driving their cars because in America our infrastructure is not designed for public transportation or riding a bike. People travel 10, 20, or even 30 miles to and from work or school every day.

In fact, many people travel further.  Your point was?

And we are not saving the environment. Of course not...with 1.2 billion Chinese, and 700 million Indians coming into the First world, the world, rather markedly is about to change.  I'm sorry...did I miss your point?  What difference does it make if we drill a hole in our ground or we pay other coutries to drill holes in their ground? (Well, that would produce a bit more oil...and you'd be able to go to your job at some less cost than you currently experience....I believe that's the point, but possibly I've not been reading the papers all that clearly...perhaps you could educate me).  Either way the environment is being hurt. Indeed...agreed.  So that arguement is a no-go as well. Also agreed....ahhhhh.....now we have a decision to make, don't we?    Renewable energy?  OK but it will take decades to make that a reality. .  As the Chinese say...."when's the best time to plant a cherry tree?  '25 years ago'.....and the next best time?

Today. 

People dont have money to trade in their cars (which will now be worth pennies) to buy a 25k Toyota Prius which alrady has a 12 month waiting list or a Smart car which has a 24-month waiting list. And what about the airlines? They are getting killed by rising fuel costs.

(See above, re: cherry trees).

Oil and gas will not decrease unless we increase supply. (Oh....Grasshopper....you're paying attention!).  And we can only do that if we drill the oil ourselves and increase refining capacity. It's basic economics. If you increase supply, prices will fall.

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