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Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 1:18:44 PM

celticlord2112

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Obama opts out of public campaign finance system

While I can respect the tactical rationale for his decision, doesn't his willingness to abandon the earlier pledge to take public funds show him to be just another political opportunist, part and parcel of the same system he vehemently denounces as "broken"?

How much credibility do his campaign commitments carry, if he can dispense with one so casually? What other tactical rationales will arise to "force" him to abandon other pledges?

Obama has yet to specify exactly what "change" he brings to the system, but somehow I got the impression it was rather more substantive than a mere changing of his mind.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 1:28:14 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Obama opts out of public campaign finance system

While I can respect the tactical rationale for his decision, doesn't his willingness to abandon the earlier pledge to take public funds show him to be just another political opportunist, part and parcel of the same system he vehemently denounces as "broken"?

How much credibility do his campaign commitments carry, if he can dispense with one so casually? What other tactical rationales will arise to "force" him to abandon other pledges?

Obama has yet to specify exactly what "change" he brings to the system, but somehow I got the impression it was rather more substantive than a mere changing of his mind.

Celtic, if Obama were to get in there'd be "change" alright.
The Recruiters offices wouldn't say; "Join the Marines, Navy, Army etc they'd say, "Join the U.S. Global Peacekeepers and defend the United Nations!"

Cum-bay-ah!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/19/2008 1:30:11 PM >

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 1:57:30 PM

DomKen

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Here's the real issue you're trying to ignore.

Senator McCain was in the public system for the primaries. He spent all the money he's allowed to, back in April IIRC, but he spending privately raised funds right now for campaign purposes which he's not supposed to be doing until after he is officially nominated at the GOP convention. That is against the law. GWB is refusing to put forward the two Democratic nominees and two Republican nominees that are need to get a quorum on the FEC so Senator McCain can get away with it.

As long as that's going on it's tactically unsound for Senator Obama to bind himself to the rules of the public finance system when it is abundantly clear his opponent isn't. He's just being honest about it. To bad Senator Straight Talk isn't.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 2:14:18 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Senator McCain was in the public system for the primaries. He spent all the money he's allowed to, back in April IIRC, but he spending privately raised funds right now for campaign purposes which he's not supposed to be doing until after he is officially nominated at the GOP convention. That is against the law. GWB is refusing to put forward the two Democratic nominees and two Republican nominees that are need to get a quorum on the FEC so Senator McCain can get away with it.

Senator McCain has denied that public funds were ever used as surety on loans to his campaign. I am not aware of any documentation that stands to refute this position--and would be greatly interested in knowing of such. Loans being the finicky legal things they are, lending institutions generally document the hell out of them, so I find it unlikely that McCain would have been able to make such a pledge without there being a clear paper trail to that effect.

In fact, the banks are on record stating that not only was a pledge of public funds not given, it was explicitly excluded from the collateral provided for the loans. At a minimum, this indicates that McCain's campaign was cognizant of the legal and ethical issues involved and worked to properly address them in seeking the loans.

I fail to see how any of this gives Obama sufficient ethical grounds for dispensing with his earlier pledge to participate in the public funding system. If we are required to parse campaign promises with the granular detail one parses the letter of the law, I for one do not consider that level of political cynicism to be a healthy "change" for our government.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 2:20:41 PM

DomKen

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Who said anything about loans? McCain was in the public system and then tried to get out after votes had been cast. That is not allowed. He has since spent money beyond that which he is allowed to spend on his campaign. Once again black letter illegal.

McCain cannot legally spend a dime on a presidential campign until he is the official GOP nominee. But the FEC which is the only available enforcer of the law might as well not exist right now, thanks exclusively to GWB.

So why should Obama tie himself to the public finance laws when McCain isn't? Anyway the pledge was to take public funds if his opponent did. McCain is presently violating the rules under which the public funds are granted. Why should Obama constrain himself in a way his opponment doesn't? Unless you're hoping this will be an issue for endless investigations and independent counsels during Obama's terms in the White House?

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/19/2008 2:25:09 PM >

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 5:41:46 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Senator McCain was in the public system for the primaries. He spent all the money he's allowed to, back in April IIRC, but he spending privately raised funds right now for campaign purposes which he's not supposed to be doing until after he is officially nominated at the GOP convention. That is against the law. GWB is refusing to put forward the two Democratic nominees and two Republican nominees that are need to get a quorum on the FEC so Senator McCain can get away with it.

Senator McCain has denied that public funds were ever used as surety on loans to his campaign. I am not aware of any documentation that stands to refute this position--and would be greatly interested in knowing of such. Loans being the finicky legal things they are, lending institutions generally document the hell out of them, so I find it unlikely that McCain would have been able to make such a pledge without there being a clear paper trail to that effect.

In fact, the banks are on record stating that not only was a pledge of public funds not given, it was explicitly excluded from the collateral provided for the loans. At a minimum, this indicates that McCain's campaign was cognizant of the legal and ethical issues involved and worked to properly address them in seeking the loans.

I fail to see how any of this gives Obama sufficient ethical grounds for dispensing with his earlier pledge to participate in the public funding system. If we are required to parse campaign promises with the granular detail one parses the letter of the law, I for one do not consider that level of political cynicism to be a healthy "change" for our government.

It's that simple, he *promised* he wouldn't do it! Now, he's doin' it!!!
Obama is a fucking liar!

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 5:46:28 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

It's that simple, he *promised* he wouldn't do it! Now, he's doin' it!!!
Obama is a fucking liar!

Funny, he's supposed to be a Chicago politician.

Oh...wait...

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 5:52:57 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It's that simple, he *promised* he wouldn't do it! Now, he's doin' it!!!
Obama is a fucking liar!

Funny, he's supposed to be a Chicago politician.

Oh...wait...

Yeah, from "Crook" County!

Here it is, his public "Pledge."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOFEdFpGF8I

Yup, he's on the block to the highest Corporate Bidder now!
What a lying sack of shit!

"Oh?" "Did I promise you a National Healthcare Program?"
"I don't recall saying that."
"Did I say "double foreign aid?"
"I really meant Triple foreign aid!"
Here we go with the lies.
"Don't question me! I'm a "Brilliant Legal Scholor!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/19/2008 6:04:34 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Post #: 8

RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 6:18:54 PM

fungasm

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In March of last year, the Obama campaign stated that he would "aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

He tried.

The Republican representatives wouldn't agree to limit National Committee Attack Ad, Lobbyist contributions, corporate contributions, the 527 spending or any other limits except on the candidates themselves. McCain isn't a force for change and he's not the conservative poster child, so he's not drawing in the big donations. So they want to hamstring the Obama who has raised $250 million dollars. I think that the Republicans should have given in on the campaign equality- since Obama gets to look like he tried, and then go out and raise a whole heck of a lot more. Obama didn't lie. Personally, the Republicans who bitch about this are looking like whining children.

Maybe if your candidate wasn't a decrepit hypocritical hawk who can't do simple math, who threatens to keep troops in Iraq for a hundred years (while not knowing the difference between Sunni and Shia), who wants to bomb Iran, and who doesn't even understand Google (he's stated publically his current wife has to do it for him), than perhaps he wouldn't be struggling so much to raise money for his own campaign.

McCain has all the worst traits of Bush (the stupidity and the pride at that stupidity) and Cheney (a man who believes winning a war is more important than the lives involved with a terrible temper)... he's like their bitter nasty love child.

Alison

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 6:25:41 PM

celticlord2112

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Amazing how the Democrats are never at fault for anything.....

Would be nice if their idea of "change" meant something more than changing the direction of the finger of blame.

Of course, then they'd be Libertarians and Obama would be out of a job.

Ah, if only.......

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 6:37:35 PM

fungasm

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Oh We Suck Too. The current Democratic Congress has a pipe cleaner for a backbone, and Pelosi has the policy negotiating skills of a rabid chiuahuahua. Two years so far and we still have No Child Left Behind and The "Patriot" Act.

But McCain is amoral and deliberately stupid, which is a BAD combination.

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Blog: http://antidomme.sensualwriter.com

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 6:38:17 PM

popeye1250

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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Amazing how the Democrats are never at fault for anything.....

Would be nice if their idea of "change" meant something more than changing the direction of the finger of blame.

Of course, then they'd be Libertarians and Obama would be out of a job.

Ah, if only.......

LOLOLOL!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 7:09:46 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

But McCain is amoral and deliberately stupid, which is a BAD combination.

And Obama is moral and brilliant?

I think you'll have to explain that one, because I'm not seeing it.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 9:45:49 PM

DomAviator

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

But McCain is amoral and deliberately stupid, which is a BAD combination.

Wow! McCain is both amoral and stupid??? To think he graduated from the United States Naval Academy - a rather elite educational institution that requires a congressional appointment to get into and that has one of the toughest Honor Codes of any institution in the world. Then he was commissioned an officer in the US Navy, making him "a gentleman by act of congress." Then he went on to serve a life in the US Navy, whose core values are "Honor, Courage, Committment"... Yep, I can just see the immorality and stupidity ooozing from him... Hell I suppose McCain's whole family is a disgraceful lot of amoral stupid people - afteral Capt John Sidney McCain III, is the son of Admiral John Sidney McCain Jr. and the grandson of Admiral John Sidney McCain. Its not like he has a nice family like Obama's - you know like Odinga the African warlord who unleashed massacres in Kenya and who tried to overthrow the govt there and got convicted of treason?

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 9:57:13 PM

cloudboy

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Yes, he changed his policy decision. The question is, will he be beholden to special interests by foregoing public financing?

Why did he change his mind?

>>“Instead of forcing us to rely on millions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs, you’ve fueled this campaign with donations of $5, $10, $20, whatever you can afford,” he told his supporters in the video message. “And because you did, we’ve built a grassroots movement of over 1.5 million Americans.”<<

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/19/2008 10:10:10 PM >

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 9:57:57 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Here's the real issue you're trying to ignore.

Senator McCain was in the public system for the primaries. He spent all the money he's allowed to, back in April IIRC, but he spending privately raised funds right now for campaign purposes which he's not supposed to be doing until after he is officially nominated at the GOP convention. That is against the law. GWB is refusing to put forward the two Democratic nominees and two Republican nominees that are need to get a quorum on the FEC so Senator McCain can get away with it.

As long as that's going on it's tactically unsound for Senator Obama to bind himself to the rules of the public finance system when it is abundantly clear his opponent isn't. He's just being honest about it. To bad Senator Straight Talk isn't.

Ty for the insight, DomKen. i admit i dun understand campaign finance law, and i was surprised to read public campaign funds did not exist until the Watergate scandal. Apparently, they were intended as a reform measure to help clean up campaigns -- i never knew this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/us/politics/20obamacnd.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&8au=&oref=slogin&emc=au&adxnnlx=1213937743-UHiP09QofE+qkH6l9CFnfQ

pinksugarsub

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 10:17:52 PM

chickpea

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From: Los Angeles Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It's that simple, he *promised* he wouldn't do it! Now, he's doin' it!!!
Obama is a fucking liar!

Funny, he's supposed to be a Chicago politician.

Oh...wait...

Reminds me of McCain wanting to drill offshore now....after all those Pro-Environment, I'm not Bush Ads.

If you look at both of them, and trust your instincts, McCain reminds me of a sleezy slimey person, and Obama someone who is out to change things for the better (like the young Clinton in 1992).

At this point in U.S. history, I don't want another creep (a.k.a. Dick Cheney) sitting in the White House. ...Unless you did like the creep and the past 8 years. *eye roll*

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Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/19/2008 10:30:30 PM

chickpea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
fueled this campaign with donations of $5, $10, $20, whatever you can afford,” he told his supporters in the video message. “And because you did, we’ve built a grassroots movement of over 1.5 million Americans.”<<

To all the Democrats and Republican Obama supporters, we need to make a donation big and small before July 4th... to send a message that America does support an administration that's not victim to lobbyists. (just look at how McCain suddenly changes his tune to support offshore oil drilling that won't make a dent in prices for at least 4 or 5 years... PLUS OFF SHORE OIL DRILLING WILL completely DEPLETE OUR EMERGENCY RESERVES [once done it will make us *completely* dependent on the middle east.... giving Bush a reason to bomb and meddle with the middle eastern politics in 20 years])

Just say no to Big Oil Companies using politicians to send our troops in harm's way to pad their pockets.

USE THAT STIMULUS CHECK THAT BUSH SENT YOU AND FORWARD IT ON TO OBAMA! ;-) THANK YOU.

[Mod Note : Font reduced]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 6/20/2008 7:34:32 AM >

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Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

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Post #: 18

RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 5:28:19 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL chickpea

stimulus check package

that money's going up in fireworks smoke on July 4th.

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RE: Obama opts out of public campaign finance system - 6/20/2008 5:44:02 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Oh. Republicans made him do it. It's all their fault...

And they sound like whiney children.

I see...

quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

In March of last year, the Obama campaign stated that he would "aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

He tried.

The Republican representatives wouldn't agree to limit National Committee Attack Ad, Lobbyist contributions, corporate contributions, the 527 spending or any other limits except on the candidates themselves. McCain isn't a force for change and he's not the conservative poster child, so he's not drawing in the big donations. So they want to hamstring the Obama who has raised $250 million dollars. I think that the Republicans should have given in on the campaign equality- since Obama gets to look like he tried, and then go out and raise a whole heck of a lot more. Obama didn't lie. Personally, the Republicans who bitch about this are looking like whining children.

Maybe if your candidate wasn't a decrepit hypocritical hawk who can't do simple math, who threatens to keep troops in Iraq for a hundred years (while not knowing the difference between Sunni and Shia), who wants to bomb Iran, and who doesn't even understand Google (he's stated publically his current wife has to do it for him), than perhaps he wouldn't be struggling so much to raise money for his own campaign.

McCain has all the worst traits of Bush (the stupidity and the pride at that stupidity) and Cheney (a man who believes winning a war is more important than the lives involved with a terrible temper)... he's like their bitter nasty love child.

Alison

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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