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Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:22:18 PM

Stephann

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Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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I hate them.

softness has been making a few posts about M/s dynamics that aren't love fueled. She's gotten a lot of flak for it. I realize that most people hinge their D/s relationships on the love and emotional connection. A small segment of our community does it differently; in our case, I love my slave, but our M/s dynamic doesn't hinge on our emotional connection. We aren't Master and slave because I love her, we are Master and slave, because she serves me well as a slave. If she ceases to function as an adequate slave, it would require a very different type of relationship (though, I suspect, that would mean we have to become someone we're not.)

So, this is an attempt to discuss D/s relationship dynamics that aren't emotion/love oriented. Why do so many people feel that such relationships are somehow deficient or inferior?

Stephan

_____________________________

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RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:24:56 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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I think it is simple. Some people cannot imagine a type of mindset that is not their own.

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RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:29:19 PM

Lumus

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I don't see a D/s relationship without love being inferior. If that's what people want, and it makes 'em happy, sweet.

On the other hand, I am one of these evil people that does not want sex without love. Yes, I tried it, and personally I hate it. Mind you...that's me. I don't impose that on other people's happiness, and despite my presonal preferences, I can appreciate if that's what floats someone else's boat.

[I missed the flak. Then again, I avoid drama. Was there drama?]

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(in reply to camille65)

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RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:31:05 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I think it is simple. Some people cannot imagine a type of mindset that is not their own.

Yeah. Other side being: if it's not done out of love, it must be done out of abuse. Problem with that attitude: vile, underhanded, manipulative things are done all the time in the name of "love."

Love is important. Honesty and mutual respect are more important.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 4

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:33:17 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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I think it's totally hot.
I just happen to fall in love with my master. (I've only had two...and it happened both times)
But it didn't start off that way, and it was extremelyh hot.

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 5

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:35:37 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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Odd Totally ODD.

I usually get flack because I love my slave.

I am regularly asked how much love interferes with the D/s Dynamic how I can love her and still require what I do of her and I have to agree I have always found that maintaining a D/s relationship with someone that you Love makes things difficult to maintain in a Realistic Atmosphere mostly because at the end of the day she is the woman I love and I do not see her as Property, she may be my most prized posession but truth be told in tomorrow she said "I'm done with this I don't want to be your slave anymore" I for sure would be crushed and eventually I might leave but I do not know that I would be able to cut ties and say "Fuck you Fery Much, don't let the door hit ya" I would have to decide what I was willing to do to maintain that relationship.

Truth be told I honestly believe that Love Hampers a D/s relationship because it crowds on my ability to say to her Obey or Leave because I love her it's not that easy.

I think relationships like Softness allow for a more pure form of Order in the chain of Dominant and submissive but truth be told I love being in love and so I doubt I would trade no matter how good it was.

Steel

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(in reply to Lumus)

Post #: 6

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:36:11 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
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awwww .. they have their place ... personally I use a pair to chain my bike up

People understand and have experience of relationships based on emotion (love, hate, trust, whatever) they are comfortable with them. In the West we grow up learning that love is the best basis for a private/intimate relationship between two people. Some of us dont *want* the foundation to be something as abstract as an emotion like love. Some of us prefer something else.
A property/Owner relationship is fairly cut and dried - especially when explicit contracts are involved laying out exactly what each expects of the other.

I really like this sentiment, it works well for me also.
We aren't Master and slave because I love her, we are Master and slave, because she serves me well as a slave.

I dont have anything against my good friends who live in vanilla relationships, I dont look at friends of mine in D/s dynamics and think *snort ... pathetic* ... I don't think I am superior to anyone else because I choose to find happiness where I do. I have been in those relationships, I see their merits and strengths, they just didn't work out for me.

I think the main problem people have Stephann, is they have never been in a dynamic like those some of us have, and so assume they must be terrible places barren of love and affection. Just because love isn't the basis of a particular type of relationship, doesn't mean it isn't there - just means it came after the foundations were laid.

< Message edited by softness -- 6/24/2008 5:01:13 PM >

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(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 7

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:40:46 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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~Fast Reply~

While I require love in my relationship, I don't see others as bad. Just different, the way a fem dom/male sub relationship is different. It's not what suits my needs but it doesn't have to. It's not the relationship I'm in.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 8

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:42:35 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

So, this is an attempt to discuss D/s relationship dynamics that aren't emotion/love oriented. Why do so many people feel that such relationships are somehow deficient or inferior?

I know myself, and I know I'm not looking for romantic attachments and don't have the internal framework for sustaining one. I attach firmly and somewhat neurotically, but its not an emotional thing for me. (think barnacle attaching itself to a ship)

Dare I say this? I don't really want to be loved, or its not in the top 10 on my priority list. Respected, yes. Valued, yes. Appreciated, yes. But, love makes me feel creepy.

One of the problems I run into is people mistake this for thinking I want to be treated like crap. Its like they can't grasp a non-romantic, low emotional stakes but high commitment relationship organized around something besides love, something like mutual respect and shared understanding.

So, I think its a really good topic to bring up for discussion. :)

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 9

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:44:38 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
So, this is an attempt to discuss D/s relationship dynamics that aren't emotion/love oriented. Why do so many people feel that such relationships are somehow deficient or inferior?

Stephan

Because people have a way of believing that their way is the right way, and other peoples' dynamics and/or acts are "sick", "abusive", "wrong", "inferior". We all do this, whether we do it outloud or not, we all sit back and say "wow, so and so is fucked up, I can't believe they do that, or she takes that, or he says that" etc etc. I'll admit there are certain things I think are fucked up or do not think are healthy--bdsm and otherwise. Open mindedness only goes so far even in the most laid-back people. It's human nature to judge things based upon our own values.

This is really just another branch of why do people judge other people's kinks.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 10

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:47:22 PM

UBERMUNSCHIST

Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I hate them.

This was the first thought that flashed through my mind as I opened this thread.

I'm glad you share the same sentiments!

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I stand for ME.

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Post #: 11

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:50:41 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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Well, I'm probably somewhere over on the OP's clump of "people who don't get it". Yes, I base my M/s relationship on love and really don't see how I could do it any other way... FOR ME.

In addition, It's pretty obvious that a fair number of the "M/s" relationships based on kink don't make it in the longhaul.

What that leaves out are the "non love" (for want of a better term) M/s relationships that DO make it over time (and about which I would LOVE to know a lot more) and those for whom making a relationship last over time isn't a priority (not my place to judge what goals someone has).

Was that drama?

(in reply to marieToo)

Post #: 12

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:55:26 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

In addition, It's pretty obvious that a fair number of the "M/s" relationships based on kink don't make it in the longhaul.

Just because a dynamic isn't based on love, doesn't mean it's based on kink.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 13

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 4:56:46 PM

charlotteS

Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Softness

Just because love isn't the basis of a particular type of relationship, doesn't mean it is there - just means it came after the foundations were laid.

I think that is the heart of it for me. I wouldn't want to be in a D/s relationship where there wasn't love (again, not judging I just need that for myself.) But that doens't mean that our M/s dynamic is based off of it. We've attempted to base it off other defined needs and desires so that love has room to do what it wants within the defined dynamic.

Meh gotta more but maybe I'll write more later..

charlotte

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(in reply to marieToo)

Post #: 14

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:00:49 PM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

In my relationship there has to be an emotional connection or it will not be a relationship. Now what works for me and mine but it will not work for everyone. I don't think anyone's relationship is inferior, I think they are different and as long as their needs are served and no one is getting hurt, more power to them.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 15

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:03:11 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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My Sir and my relationship didn't start in love. It started in like and hope (on my part).
While i was prepared to have sex without love, it really is different for me when there is love involved.
I could respect and care for my Sir without the love, and it would be a really good relationship because we respect each other.
The love is really a (great) bonus.

I certainly didn't expect to find someone i could love so fast.

(in reply to charlotteS)

Post #: 16

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:25:40 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Was that drama?

No, but please listen.

Your motivation for doing this stuff is that you were requested to learn about it by someone you love, who has been leading you forward into it step by step. Not everyone starts there. In my own case, I was engaging in SM-power exchange type things at the age of 5 -- long before puberty. For many people, it is a more primal drive than the sexual drive.

Drama arises when people place an "I'm better" judgement on such differences. For example, I am not "purer" than you because I started younger.

BDSM is a form of self-expression. People on spiritual paths incorporate it into their spiritual journeys. People in love incorporate it into their lovemaking. People who are freaks use it to get their freak on. Sometimes one individual does all of those things at once. That triple combination is what I try to achieve. Other people will have different motivations.

Part of the context here is that these topics interest you and make you uncomfortable at the same time. You sign most of your posts with some version of "Jeff, guy who is definitely different from most of you-all." You come off as a man who is still profoundly disturbed that he enjoys hitting women (or one special woman). I've sure been there myself. Any Top with a conscience knows that headspace.

Time -- and meeting others with relationships that incorporates BDSM -- will go a long way to address your concerns.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 17

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:34:45 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

We aren't Master and slave because I love her, we are Master and slave, because she serves me well as a slave. If she ceases to function as an adequate slave, it would require a very different type of relationship

Only one of my relationships fits into this mould. Sir and i do not have love in our relstionship and nor do either of us want it. We don't even have a friendship per se. If i ceased to function as an adequate slave it would just plain and simple be over.
I do not need or want love in this particular relationship but strangely (or not) i do want, need and feel it for someone else. I guess what i'm trying to say is that where every person is different in their wants and needs regarding love they may also vary in their wants and needs of love with different people too.

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 18

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:44:09 PM

NeedingMore220

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Joined: 6/5/2008
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In starting a new D/s relationship and submitting to someone that I am just learning ... that certainly doesn't start in 'love'. I do find I do best with someone I have both a physical and emotional connection - something that I enjoy and respect. Love may happen, or it may not - I don't have a crystal ball. I think that if the connection is strong, then there is a strong possibility of love entering the relationship. But I don't find it a requirement, no.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 19

RE: Fuzzy Pink Handcuffs - 6/24/2008 5:45:33 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Why do so many people feel that such relationships are somehow deficient or inferior?

I don't/ I don't do love very well. If someone says they love me it makes me cringe. If someone falls in love with me I feel I have power over them and it freaks me out.
I don't trust those who say they love me as I feel if they can give it as if it is a precious gift then they can also take it away.
On the world as it is today i consider indiviual love to be an emotional luxury.
I am wired to love-hate. I am wired to feel acts of sadism, cold heartedly enacted both physically and emotionally towards me are if you like expressions of love.
I am also wired as a mother to act out of unconditional positibe regard both as a mother.
I am trained to act from a stand I take ethically to treat others professionally with unconditional positive regard.
i consider romantic love to be a socially acceptable and conformist set of behaviours.
Love is also a culture bound system.
Love is a second-hand emotion meaning that I personally had to learn what it was meant to be from others.
Some call me dysfunctional for this.
How can it be when it works for me?

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 6/24/2008 5:46:39 PM >

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Post #: 20

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