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RE: Giving up - 11/11/2005 12:46:34 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline
again, i've not seen people on these boards show hatred towards anyone, no matter their gender or sexual preferences.



Actually I have, and I've seen them go out of their way to be horribly rude, insulting, and just plain nasty, they're usualy banned once the mods get enough of their spewing filth and sewage however.

(in reply to girl4you2)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 1:31:29 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenxx
And if someone hadn’t taken the time to teach you, where would you be?


In the 80s? Self-taught.

I had heard about Society of Janus and was hot for a female member with a blond and pink Mohawk - but I ultimately decided she wasn't my kind of gal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenxx
Baby steps first. Didn’t you have to take them?


One of my earliest memories of play is of a cutting and some blood drinking besides. Some call that edge play. Novice that I was I didn't cause an infection nor even leave a scar (I swapped a dagger for a scalpel at the last minute - the dagger was "hot" theatrically but the scalpel made a cleaner cut). The lady in question often did as she was told, but she was vanilla - and still is.

I think one of my problems is that some of us want to script what others are going to do. No one scripted anything for me. Most of what I know I figured out by myself in relation to some patient and experimental women. The only thing I was ever taught by another was the basics of Shibari about 9 years ago - even being a Life Scout never taught me that. It's nice that resources are available. It's nice that people want to share experience and knowledge. I just think that there should be some leeway and acceptance for those that want to find their own path. And I'm not seeing it - most are being very rigid about some silly things that really don't mean that much.

Safewording and SSC are great for some lowest common denominator faction within the community - at the same time those same LCD types are the least able to receive and understand what's behind Safewording and SSC. In case I am unclear here, I am saying that those most in need of those pieces of information are the least likely to make use of them sensibly.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I was reading that other thread tonight and found that part about the drunken single tail guy pretty interesting. I mean, I assume he knows all about Safewording and SSC and still manages to be a completely irresponsible person. That guy could probably use a nice blanket party. On the bright side, once he sobered up I expect he was hugely grateful to the Dominant that interfered.

You cannot teach common sense.


< Message edited by Chaingang -- 11/11/2005 8:41:37 AM >

(in reply to Phoenxx)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Giving up - 11/11/2005 2:19:06 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

and here i thought ya had to be sarcastic w/ big boobs,lol

[


Well I am not sarcastic but I have big breasts down to a T Do I still get anything lol

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 8:22:24 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

BTW, Candystripper: I don't know John Warren, never read his book, don't necessarily care to. I am not trying to steal his thunder - I am unaware of his thunder.

Chaingang


i owe You an apology Sir. i have a deep respect and confidence in John Warren, and when i "thought" He was attacked, i got a bit nasty about it. It's certainly not my place to defend Him, and i should not have posted what i did. i hope You will accept my apology.

candystripper

BTW, i am apologising here, on the boards, because this is where i offended You.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 10:08:14 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
BTW, i am apologising here, on the boards, because this is where i offended You.


It's not necessary. I don't offend easily. Rarely in relation to people I know in RL, and certainly not in relation to online strangers. To me the word "motherfucker" is practically an endearment, I don't even waste my breath on those I don't care about at all.

People work themselves into a lather because we are discussing something the greater community has become dogmatic about. But dogma doesn't help anyone. Safewords and the phrase SSC were never intended as anything but the most minimal standard of ethics, and were often thought to be largely beyond the scope of more "complex" committed relationships where criticism from the outside is all too easy without a proper understanding of what's going on from the inside with the participants.

I have been stopped in public play by a DM for doing things that my sub and I accepted as normative for us. We were both: "WTF? Mind your own business..." And that's pretty much when I realized that really hot scenes are ultimately impossible in public because one is monitored by outsiders that just do not understand the dynamics involved or the agreements in place. There may also be "house rules" of all kinds that are not what one may want for oneself. Again, scripting by someone else about what makes sense to them, etc - it's all about their perceived liabilities and not about your relationship or your pleasures.

When I talk to a prospective sub I consider the ideas behind safewording and SSC as a given and not nearly comprehensive enough to cover what I am really going to need in their place. I never scene with anyone on the first night and often not for weeks. Why? Because I am learning who they are and how they respond to things. I am attentive to their non-verbal communications: gestures and physical attitudes. Hell, I recently dated someone I never scened with at all - she had already moved on to someone who was going to give her what she wanted more immediately.

I call it dodging a bullet because people lie about themselves all the time. I don't count it a loss because her impatience tells me she was not for me anyway. Without going into details, my own sense of her was that she was a thrillseeking switchy type who was constantly testing my borders. Her general attitude was one of a SAM, and I was already in a quandry as to whether I would seek to retrain her or if I didn't even wish to in the first place. She saved me the trouble of having to make a choice because she split as we didn't have any agreements in place in any case.

Time reveals all flaws.

This morning I found this link informative:
http://sensuoussadie.com/interviews/davidsteininterview.htm

Stein has some interesting things to say about many aspects of what we have been discussing here, later he touches on dynamics that make for interesting comparisons and contrasts between gay and straight orientations in relation to SM. I leave the deciphering to the readers.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 10:55:26 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Wow...

One word sums up how I feel about Chaingang's observations:

Amen.

Now, it's not as diplomatic as I may have put it...oh well. Everyone gets their ass chapped over something or another sometime.

Safewords, SSC, RACK, or whatever the next popular catch-phrase happens to be, primarily serve to make people feel more comfortable about playing with strangers by providing them with a false sense of security.

Now I still think they need to be used in public venues (Sorry, but DMs are a necessary evil IMO), as we all play at different levels and having a redlight/greenlight can avoid serious problems in a public dungeon. Now DMs have no business interrupting a scene based on their own personal tastes and are only there to enforce the rules of the space. If you are spattering the blood of your parter, it's a healh issue to the other players in the dungeon...so the DM has a responsibility to intervene.

Being published does not make a person more intelligent, experienced, or worthy of respect. It means that they can write and sell that product to someone willing to buy it. Hemmingway was an alcholic and a (non-consentual) wife-beater...but he could still sell a book...does that mean he deserves my respect?

Anyway...preach on....Testify!

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 11:08:20 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline 		With the current attention BDSM in all its forms is getting, there is bound to be changes. There was a time when you had to go through a training system to be called Master. If you didn’t you were sneered at by the members of the BDSM clubs.
Now anyone can dub themselves a Master or slave or whatever. I am not saying this is a bad thing. It is a statement of fact. And the internet makes it much easier to learn both good and bad habits and ideas. Perhaps it is time to bury safe words and SSC.
But those of us who have been around for some time, and who want to help new people coming in, regardless of if its for getting laid, helping others or promoting the lifestyle to the general public for the betterment of mankind, do need some ideas that we can transmit to them.
The person who organizes the pan fetish event here has gone out and found what we are allowed to do within our city, within the laws of the land so to speak. Believe it or not it is more health code we have to worry about then the law. To that effect we cannot have genital contact, no blood or water sports, anus and genitals must be covered. We teach newbies that there are areas you do not hit in public. The spine, feet, hands, kidney and stomach areas are the main ones. One thing I personally never miss saying is that there is no one way to practice BDSM. That each couple or grouping must find the right way for them.
Yes, there has to be a minimum public standard. And for us here it is what is defined as by the law. Your private standards and what you do with your playmates are totally different ;-)
Tony

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 11:28:48 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

We teach newbies that there are areas you do not hit in public. The spine, feet, hands, kidney and stomach areas are the main ones.


I am curious at to why you teach this? Is this a club rule that you can't hit these areas? I guess I'm not following the why unless it is a club specific rule. I assume by *public* you mean just the play space that your members play in?

(in reply to Phoenxx)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 11:38:47 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		I can't answer for Phoenxx but some of those places have enormous potential for causing serious or even permanent injury.

MrThorns:
Re: "My inner child is a mean little fucker"

Your signature reminded me of something funny a friend of mine used to say, which was:
"I want to molest your inner child."

< Message edited by Chaingang -- 11/11/2005 11:41:37 AM >

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 11:38:52 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

To me the word "motherfucker" is practically an endearment, I don't even waste my breath on those I don't care about at all.


This says volumes about how you have been expressing yourself. I hope that you understand that your approach is clouding your words.

I am by no means an SSC person---I admit that I laughed my ass off the first time I heard the term, and I still muffle the snorts of laughter when I hear experienced people use it. I am barely a RACK person---I guess I qualify because the other party has to say "yes", and I don't do things that will *require* emergency room visits. So far, I have never needed more than a bandaid. Lots of education in human physiology and first aid has helped ensure that.

In my own play, safewords just don't occur to me. However, not everyone can play without a net. Years ago, I was told very nicely to tone down my (public) scenes because "I might scare the new people." Thus was born my motto, FUCK THE NEWBIES. People tell me "oh, you were new once". Well, yeah, I was new back in the day, before the internet. I learned a lot, on my own and from experienced folks. No one coddled me, or tried to show me only the nice stuff. If you couldn't take it, the vibe was, maybe you just Don't Belong Here.

So okay, I admit to having some 'tude. My motto remains. And I teach a lot of newbies! Do I mention safewords? Not really. I DO talk a lot about communication----and how EVERYONE is a stranger the first time you play with them. I don't care if you have lived with someone your whole adult life, the story changes when the flogger comes out. And BOTH parties have the right to slow down, take a break, or stop the scene entirely, at any time. I have talked to too many new subs who got totally trounced in a scene, and just never realized that they had the right to just GET UP or holler STOP. I have also talked with new doms who kept on with scenes even though they felt uncomfortable with what they were doing.

Safewords are a cheap shortcut to real communication, but they serve some purpose, and no one should be vilified for using one.

Ms Francine

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 12:05:59 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I can't answer for Phoenxx but some of those places have enormous potential for causing serious or even permanent injury.


I know they do. Probably why I'm so drawn to them. It was the do not hit those areas in public that caught my eye. Thanks for your thoughts on it.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 1:31:16 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Okies...feeling totally lost. i know "SSC" is safe sane and consensual. Seems self-evident that that's a desirable type of exhange. But can someone tell me what "safewords" are? And what is "RACK"? Or are these just phrases one needs with a stranger in a dungeon?

Pardon the interruption~we now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread.

candystripper

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 1:36:19 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Read the hyperlinks in Post #: 118.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Giving up - 11/11/2005 1:36:45 PM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello There,
I think your attitude is what's preventing you from finding your match not us. To tell all the people in this forum it's our fault you have not found someone is really unacceptable in my opinion.
I think if you are sour that's something those who've actually spoken to may be partially responsible for, but to blame the whole world for your problems shows a serious lack of maturity.

If you'd ask for help some of us would have helped you, but to come out with your guns drawn firing accusations at us all shows me you may not be ready to be a Dom. You need to accept you have a responsibility for your own path and people who've never even talked to you have no liability for your problems.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to MrADude2004)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 1:38:04 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Or, for post slackers..............Risk Aware Consensual Kink.

I suck at remembering the meanings of acronyms, so I am fairly proud I can keep this one in my head at all.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 10:32:48 PM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

We teach newbies that there are areas you do not hit in public. The spine, feet, hands, kidney and stomach areas are the main ones.


I am curious at to why you teach this? Is this a club rule that you can't hit these areas? I guess I'm not following the why unless it is a club specific rule. I assume by *public* you mean just the play space that your members play in?


These areas are where you can do major damage. Around the spine you can cause temporary or permanent paralyzation. Hitting too close to the kidneys can cause bruise them, which means you pee blood or worse. The hands and feet, well it’s hard to hide or explain, plus hit from the wrong angle the bones are very fragile.
I teach both newbie Masters and newbie submissives that so both know.
Tony

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 10:38:53 PM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Okies...feeling totally lost. i know "SSC" is safe sane and consensual. Seems self-evident that that's a desirable type of exhange. But can someone tell me what "safewords" are? And what is "RACK"? Or are these just phrases one needs with a stranger in a dungeon?

Pardon the interruption~we now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread.

candystripper


RACK = Risk Aware Consensual Kink.
It means you are aware that what kinks you have do have risks, but that you are aware of the risk and want to do them anyway. You are consenting to them ;-)

Safe words are a system used by some people to help in communication during scenes to make the Top aware that there is a danger or trouble. Some people use one word others have started using two.

There is not one right way to use them. And some people scorn them totally.
Tony


(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/11/2005 10:48:56 PM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

I know they do. Probably why I'm so drawn to them. It was the do not hit those areas in public that caught my eye. Thanks for your thoughts on it.



I say public because if you are aware of the risks and want to do it in private, hell I'm not about to tell you no. What you do at home, is between you and who your playing with. I’m not the BDSM cops and would fight against them anyways lol…
If your fetish is to pee blood for a week go ahead. If you like taking risks, it is you right to.
I feel the same way about going to the doctors and getting surgery. Let them chop, remove, add to whatever or inject anything, as long as you know the risks.
Tony

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/12/2005 1:27:51 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Thank You, Phonexx for the explanation. i remember when i first began to post and saw someone use "wiitwd" and had no idea what it meant. i asked about that too. i'm not ashamed that i still have things to learn and i am grateful to people like You who explain things.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/12/2005 1:28:54 AM >

(in reply to Phoenxx)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Safewording Digression - 11/12/2005 8:29:40 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline 		the only stupid questions are those you don't ask and those asked by a 10 year old with ADHD/OCD/ODD ... trust me I know... I've been on both sides of that one LOL.
Seriously though, if you don’t ask you cannot learn. And if you don’t learn, well were is the fun in that.
Tony
Ignorance is a state of being that can be corrected. Stupidity is a choice and is it’s own punishment.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 140
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