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These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/26/2008 5:15:55 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Yoo and Addington. Watch these guys avoid answering questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf9rn8w7D14

ADDINGTON: I can’t talk to you, al Qaeda may watch C-SPAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j2uvxsCU_M

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/26/2008 5:25:04 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

Post #: 1

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/26/2008 9:34:33 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

At one point, Yoo debated the meaning of "implement" with Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., who asked whether the 2002 memo had been implemented.
"What do you mean by 'implement,' sir?" Yoo asked.
"Mr. Yoo, are you denying knowledge of what the word 'implement' means?" Ellison said.
"You're asking me to define what you mean by this," Yoo said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/WireStory?id=5257021&page=2

'It all depends on what you mean by 'implement'... I bet he'd answer if he had a red hot one shoved up his rectum, now wouldn't he?

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 2

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/26/2008 10:00:59 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Yoo's evasions should get him a contempt of Congress conviction.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 3

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 3:13:32 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Yoo's evasions should get him a contempt of Congress conviction.

No. It's Congress that is contemptible.

Kudos to Addington and Yoo for basically telling the witch-hunting Democrats - who are using their political power for partisan purposes - to stick it up their asses (metaphorically).

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 4

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 3:30:47 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Yoo's evasions should get him a contempt of Congress conviction.

No. It's Congress that is contemptible.

Kudos to Addington and Yoo for basically telling the witch-hunting Democrats - who are using their political power for partisan purposes - to stick it up their asses (metaphorically).

Firm

Torture and those that defend it are OK in your book?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 5

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 4:00:29 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Yoo's evasions should get him a contempt of Congress conviction.

No. It's Congress that is contemptible.

Kudos to Addington and Yoo for basically telling the witch-hunting Democrats - who are using their political power for partisan purposes - to stick it up their asses (metaphorically).

Firm

You would have a valid point, if they had not stonewalled the questions from Republicans as well. Surely a bipartisan committee is there to represent Congress and not their respective parties ?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 6

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 4:26:07 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

It seems that every time Yoo tried to explain his statement and quote, the congressman interrupted him before he could answer.

A quote taken out of context can be made to sound any way you wish it to.

However, as a student of history, I would like to point out that if anyone thinks that the detainees at Gitmo are the first to be questioned using unorthodox means, I would suggest you get your head out of the sand.

Some former military personnel might remember the term 'long distance phone call.'
This is the technique of taking the electrical leads from a crank field telephone and attaching them to the body of the person being questioned. The shock given by cranking the handle is both painful and very severe. If not done correctly, stopping the subjects heart is the result.

This activity by the intelligence agencies of this country is niether new, nor is it unheard of. The only reason that congress is acting on it now is because it became public knowledge.

It always has been the practice of the government to turn a blind eye to any activity performed by intelligence services as long as the public is never made aware of the acts. The public can suspect all it wants, but unless someone prints proof, the old saying "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" applies.

The question that should be asked is, what are the limits when it deals with national security?

Do you really think you would complain, cry foul, bemoan the mistreatment of detainees if information gathered prevented another 9/11?

The people of the United States should realize two things, somethings done in the interest of national security should remain unknown to the general public, and second, the general public could give a rats ass as long as what is done keeps them safe and allows them to continue living that life of blissful ignorance.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 7

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 4:36:50 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You would have a valid point, if they had not stonewalled the questions from Republicans as well. Surely a bipartisan committee is there to represent Congress and not their respective parties ?

I wouldn't know about how they answered Republicans. The youtube clips were questioning only by Democrats who's intent seemed to be to get them to say what they (the Democrats) wanted them to say and would fit into their own political narrative.

Conyers is a complete asshole, trying to get answers to "when did you stop beating you wife" questions, and getting pissed when Yoo wouldn't fall into his trap.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 8

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 5:01:24 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It seems that every time Yoo tried to explain his statement and quote, the congressman interrupted him before he could answer.

A quote taken out of context can be made to sound any way you wish it to.

Sure, that's why, for example, Conyers asked a simple and direct question.

quote:

Conyers: Could the President order a suspect buried alive?

Yoo: Uh, Mr. Chairman, I don't think I've ever given advice that the President could order someone buried alive. . .

Conyers: I didn't ask you if you ever gave him advice. I asked you thought the President could order a suspect buried alive.

Yoo: Well Chairman, my view right now is that I don't think a President . . . no American President would ever have to order that or feel it necessary to order that.

Conyers: I think we understand the games that are being played.

You know what a *good* answer might have been?

"I don't know. I've never contemplated the question before, but I'd say that not that given the 8th Amendment's prohibition against Cruel and Unusual Punishment and the 14th guarantees of Due Process, no, The President cannot lawfully order a suspect buried alive"

You know, that doesn't mean Bush couldn't DO IT. It just means BUSH has to 'man-up' enough to accept the CONSEQUENCES of his choice to break the law.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time, Loyal Bushies!

The real problem with Yoo or Addington actually co-operating, is that they're guilty of crimes, too, and they'd have to incriminate themselves, OR take the Fifth. Unlike a *good* mobster, they're too big a bunch of pussies to just quietly do their time. Look how fast "Scooter" got his sentence changed! No ass-rapin Federal Prison for Loyal Bushies, eh? Must be nice to have your own private-laws.

But that drives home the point, doesn't it, that a Loyal Bushie is above all, a COWARD.

quote:

However, as a student of history, I would like to point out that if anyone thinks that the detainees at Gitmo are the first to be questioned using unorthodox means, I would suggest you get your head out of the sand.

Fine. No one ever said that extraordinary means might not be required.

But those extraordinary means are CRIMES against the laws of the United States.

"Jack Bauer" needs to be arrested and tried for his CHOICE to torture a prisoner. Or his CHOICE to obey an unlawful order.

How come no TORTURERS have been tried yet?

Is it that the Loyal Bushies are *actually* soft-on-crime, bleeding hearts... "OH, Think of the poor soldier who chose to order a prisoner... it's not their FAULT -- They were JUST OBEYING ORDERS"

We hanged Nazis at Nuremberg to prove the point that that wasn't an excuse, didn't we?

Being "kept safe" is for infants, imbiciles and slaves.

The true price of Freedom and Liberty is accepting the RISKS associated with *everyone* having Freedom and Liberty.

This is a Nation of Laws, or it is NOTHING. Decide if you are a supporter of the United States, her Constitution and Laws, of you support the Cowardice, Lies, Spies and Torture of the Loyal Bushie -- there is no middle ground.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/27/2008 5:17:04 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 9

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 5:52:10 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

FR:

Not to leave Delahunt in the second clip out:

Delahunt To Addington: Maybe Al Qaeda Will See You On C-SPAN
By John Bresnahan
Jun 26, 2008

Addington told Delahunt he couldn't discuss specific techniques being used, or even discussed for use, by CIA agents because terrorists may be watching his appearance and would gain insight into what U.S. intelligence agents are up to.

"You kind of communicate with Al Qaeda if you do. I can't talk to you because Al Qaeda may watch C-SPAN," Addington said.

Delahunt responded: "I'm sure they are watching. I'm glad they finally have a chance to see you, Mr. Addington, given your penchant for being unobtrusive."

Gee, just what is acceptable to some of you guys? Here we have a Congressman wishing that AQ can identify someone, so that they can ... do what?

And FB wants to condemn Yoo and Addington?

Who are the real "rats" in this scenario?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 10

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 6:21:59 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Yoo's evasions should get him a contempt of Congress conviction.

No. It's Congress that is contemptible.

Kudos to Addington and Yoo for basically telling the witch-hunting Democrats - who are using their political power for partisan purposes - to stick it up their asses (metaphorically).

Firm

You can do better than this.
Yoo was asked yes or no questions under oath but refused to answer. His rambling answers were a clear attempt to consume his questioners allotted time without actually answering questions.

Addington in contrast did answer at least some of the questions put to him although his evasion on his formulation of the unitary executive theory was pretty pathetic.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 11

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 6:39:48 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

I listened to a former lawyer who served as one a Reagan`s lawyers, being interviewed.

He said he was very disappointed in those two for the simple reason that the president`s lawyers(up until Bush)are supposed to tell the POTUS what`s legal and what`s not.

They`re supposed to be the hard truth,not the enabler (as if they worked as a mafia lawyer).

They aren`t supposed to actually help the president break the law,as these two did.

Their main job(up until Bush)was to protect the POTUS from legal liability.

They are supposed to tell the POTUS no,when the answer is no.Their loyalties are keeping the president from legal exposure.In that, they failed miserably.

Soon enough,when there`s an actual JOD with real law enforcement personnel in it and back in charge,those two and what they did can be investigated.

There`s plenty of time and no rush.

Same with Bush.It`s going to be interesting when we get to find out what really happened during his disastrous terms.

There`s going to be a lot-a lot of stuff.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/27/2008 6:47:14 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 12

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 6:53:42 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Delahunt's excuse was that he had confused himself with al-Qaeda.

That's not too hard to believe. In the case of a Democratic Congressman, that's probably a very easy mistake to make.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 13

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 6:57:11 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

_____________________________

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 14

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 8:03:45 AM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline

I not only support torture of the terrorists at Gitmo, I think it should be shown on cable as a premium channel! That would help fund the fight to preserve our liberties and would make a hell of a lot of families - such as the 9-11 firefighters - pretty damned happy. Nobody wound up at Gitmo for failing to sell enough girlscout cookies, These are dangerous animals who want us dead, ALL of us. I do not understand how anyone could feel bad for these monsters....

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 15

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 8:39:11 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

They are all rats. Now they are going to torture people, well well well. So the fuck what ? Nobody is ever going to touch them.

There are pictures in the 06/28/04 issue of AFP depicting an Iraqi prisoner that was stripped naked and attacked by a dog, a guard dog. On the front page it shows a female medic stitching up his wounds giving a rubber gloved thumbs up to the camera.

In a related article on page 11 of the sameissue they offer up a GWB quote dated 06/26/03 :

"The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture, and we are leading the fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law abiding nations in ori prohibiting, investigating and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment".

From what I have read, they then went around extracting agreements with other countries to exempt the US from the Geneva Convention.

Yes, they are all rats, and there would have been no Congressional hearings if the Dems did not percieve some sort of gain, they would rather play golf.

But now there is a new game called gulf. To them the only Semites who qualify as human are Jews, any and all others will be controlled or dessimated, and that has been the policy for a long time. In all the friendly Arab nations, there are puppet governments. You play ball with us or you get bombed. The only difference is Israel, we play ball with them.

Not to accuse all Jews, not at all, but the one who run the Israeli government are even nastier than the ones who run ours. But we are catching up.

Remember Rachael Corrie, and the USS Liberty. I think we have chosen our friends very poorly, but there is a reason. Israel recieves more foreign aid than any other country from the US, and that money is channeled to AIPAC and other pro Israel lobbyists. That is how they stay on top.

I also can't accuse all US citizens for the atrocities commited by our government, and I applaud the Israelis sitting in jail in Israel for refusing to serve in the occupied territories. Last count there were about a thousand of them. (that was a couple of years ago)

Man's inhumanity to Man has been going on for a long time. Israel does to the Palestinians basically what the US did to the Native Americans. It is not going to stop until something drastic happens.

What if China and Russia decide to bring charges against the Bush regime for atrocities, the use of DU weapons is clearly defined as a war crime, yet the world sits on it's hands. Torture is the same deal, the neo-cons want immunity. Most international bodies such as the Hague will not go after a sitting leader, but once ousted they are fair game. The people grilled in the presented excerpts of those Congressional hearings know this, and they know that come next year, GWB and his whole cabinet are out.

They might not be able to leave the country after the swearing in of a new regime. That would be sweet. Having to stay in the mess they created and dealing in US dollars that they helped to devalue would be fitting for rich people. You see if you have say $500 in the bank for a long time and when you take it out everything costs double what it did when you put it in, you lose $250. Now say you got millions. You lose alot more.

Oh yes, currency speculation, but in the US, US dollars are accepted.

There are many ways they can fall, and I am looking for either Mother Nature, or karma or something to come and kick all of them in their ass.

The sooner the better, for both sides.

The rich and powerful sometimes create the tools of their own demise, all it takes is for someone to use those tools.

T

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 16

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 10:24:46 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

If I had kids they'd be "waterboarded" before they were 8 years old.
"Ha, ha! Do it again Daddy! Do it again!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 17

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 10:27:41 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Not to accuse all Jews, not at all, but the one who run the Israeli government are even nastier than the ones who run ours. But we are catching up.

Shit, Term, I thought you'd put an end to this sort of stuff... "Chassez la nature, et elle revient au galop."

_____________________________

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 18

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 2:55:16 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

They are all rats. Now they are going to torture people, well well well. So the fuck what ? Nobody is ever going to touch them.

There are pictures in the 06/28/04 issue of AFP depicting an Iraqi prisoner that was stripped naked and attacked by a dog, a guard dog. On the front page it shows a female medic stitching up his wounds giving a rubber gloved thumbs up to the camera.

In a related article on page 11 of the sameissue they offer up a GWB quote dated 06/26/03 :

"The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture, and we are leading the fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law abiding nations in ori prohibiting, investigating and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment".

From what I have read, they then went around extracting agreements with other countries to exempt the US from the Geneva Convention.

Yes, they are all rats, and there would have been no Congressional hearings if the Dems did not percieve some sort of gain, they would rather play golf.

But now there is a new game called gulf. To them the only Semites who qualify as human are Jews, any and all others will be controlled or dessimated, and that has been the policy for a long time. In all the friendly Arab nations, there are puppet governments. You play ball with us or you get bombed. The only difference is Israel, we play ball with them.

Not to accuse all Jews, not at all, but the one who run the Israeli government are even nastier than the ones who run ours. But we are catching up.

Remember Rachael Corrie, and the USS Liberty. I think we have chosen our friends very poorly, but there is a reason. Israel recieves more foreign aid than any other country from the US, and that money is channeled to AIPAC and other pro Israel lobbyists. That is how they stay on top.

I also can't accuse all US citizens for the atrocities commited by our government, and I applaud the Israelis sitting in jail in Israel for refusing to serve in the occupied territories. Last count there were about a thousand of them. (that was a couple of years ago)

Man's inhumanity to Man has been going on for a long time. Israel does to the Palestinians basically what the US did to the Native Americans. It is not going to stop until something drastic happens.

What if China and Russia decide to bring charges against the Bush regime for atrocities, the use of DU weapons is clearly defined as a war crime, yet the world sits on it's hands. Torture is the same deal, the neo-cons want immunity. Most international bodies such as the Hague will not go after a sitting leader, but once ousted they are fair game. The people grilled in the presented excerpts of those Congressional hearings know this, and they know that come next year, GWB and his whole cabinet are out.

They might not be able to leave the country after the swearing in of a new regime. That would be sweet. Having to stay in the mess they created and dealing in US dollars that they helped to devalue would be fitting for rich people. You see if you have say $500 in the bank for a long time and when you take it out everything costs double what it did when you put it in, you lose $250. Now say you got millions. You lose alot more.

Oh yes, currency speculation, but in the US, US dollars are accepted.

There are many ways they can fall, and I am looking for either Mother Nature, or karma or something to come and kick all of them in their ass.

The sooner the better, for both sides.

The rich and powerful sometimes create the tools of their own demise, all it takes is for someone to use those tools.

T

Ok Termie, baby ... you post some interesting stuff sometimes, but this one is full of crap.

Let's take just one.

Prove to me that "the use of DU weapons is clearly defined as a war crime".

Notice particularly the use of the term "clearly".

I'll leave your antisemitism alone (for now).

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 19

RE: These rats are responsible for the torture... - 6/27/2008 2:59:51 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Gee, just what is acceptable to some of you guys? Here we have a Congressman wishing that AQ can identify someone, so that they can ... do what?

And FB wants to condemn Yoo and Addington?

Who are the real "rats" in this scenario?

Firm

"Al Qaeda" is 'Loyal Bushie' shorthand for EVERYONE ELSE who isn't a 'Loyal Bushie'. That's why the told AT&T to spy on **YOU** for the past 6 years.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 20

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