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RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 2:43:54 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

pinkie/stripper/plum - whoever you are this week....

Different name, but same issues...... you continue to establish a fantasy of exactly who you will and won't be, and what your fantasy dom will and won't be, and even imaginary issues in this yet to happen relationship.

Walking around with a defensive chip on your shoulder isn't going to get you anywhere other than where you are..... sitting behind a computer screen talking about relationships instead of having one in the real world.

Good luck with finding a dominant who will embrace your inner bitch.

I have no need or desire to show my ass and be a bitch in order to be respected for the strong woman that I am. I know women who love to be bitches, and I have no desire to be around them. And the strong, sane men I know have no desire to be around them either.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 21

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 2:48:53 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

See I think that as many have said that there is a differance between bitch and stong woman, I think I can be both, I like my strength and hate my bitchiness and within D/s you cant really be a bitch and get away with it because bitchiness is unprovoked female agressive nastiness (my idea of it anyways)

I've started topics and asked about this very thing.
For me being a bitch is against everything that I am.
I can be a strong woman without having to resort to being a bitch. Sometimes it bothers me that so many women proclaim that they are bitches like that is the be all and end all of life. I get things done without being a bitch (unless PMS hits then I swear an alien takes over my body).

A bitch to me is someone willing and even happy to be nasty to get results.
That is so not my style.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 22

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 3:28:05 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

I'm a very strong/strong-willed woman and I always have more respect for a man that can master me without showing me to the door at the first sign of disagreement.

How about showing you the floor, and then talking it through?

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to CarrieO)

Post #: 23

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 3:31:18 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think embracing "bitchiness" as a positive characteristic is a sign that we have nothing else to turn to. It's a reaction to being helpless and powerless.

Do you do columns? If not, you should. Then they should ban the other columns.

Thank you for pointing a finger squarely at one of the things that have been nagging me about it all and putting words to it. Please find enclosed one envelope with a hug and one with a kiss, and open either, both or neither, at your discretion.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 6:03:54 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Just a comment:

When I read the op, I read 'inner bitch' to be something comparible to 'inner child.' One who is in touch with their inner child doesn't go around acting like a child, they're just connected with their child selves. Similarly, one can be connected with their 'inner bitch' without being bitchy.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 25

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 6:40:12 PM

TysGalilah

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline

Bitchy isn't something I do or become. Even when pms'ing , I'd get weepy and overly sensative, but not bitchy.
I can be strong, have an opinion and even be assertive and still maintain a balance of how I react to situations.

I think of bitchy as similar to raging...it really is a fear based reaction/emotion.

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 26

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 6:57:33 PM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
Status: offline

Being a strong, independent, confident, willing to stand up for her beliefs, her loved ones and what's right does not make a woman a bitch. Willing to throw around what she thinks as strong, independence, etc. at the expense of others is what qualifies her as a bitch (imo).

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 27

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 8:58:41 PM

CarrieO

Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

I'm a very strong/strong-willed woman and I always have more respect for a man that can master me without showing me to the door at the first sign of disagreement.

How about showing you the floor, and then talking it through?

Health,
al-Aswad.

Greetings Master...

this would be much more interesting than walking away at the first sign of conflict.

perhaps i should have been clearer with my defination of "inner bitch". IMO, i see this as a symbol of the shadow side of a woman. when there is a lack of balance, this could be the side that comes "to light".
the Goddess Kali has been described as a bitch goddess due to the darkness of one of her aspects. she can be both destroyer and mother...bringer of death/giver of life.
i mention Kali as just one example of the bitch aspect.

balance should always be the goal.....and if i remember correctly, Shiva was the one to tame Kali. her true Master.

peace and best wishes....
carrie

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 28

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 9:29:23 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

this would be much more interesting than walking away at the first sign of conflict.

Thought as much.

quote:

perhaps i should have been clearer with my defination of "inner bitch".

Probably... Kali is interesting. Selene is nice. Lilith is hot. Ereškigal is spooky hot.

quote:

balance should always be the goal

Balance is when you're holding both hands to your sides, swaying across a plank.

I prefer that bit when you unthinkingly run across a tightrope on light feet.

One conjures images of stacking weights against each other.

The other is seamless, whole and effortless.

Harmony isn't "mere" balance.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to CarrieO)

Post #: 29

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:00:56 PM

CarrieO

Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline

Greetings Master....

Selene is nice....Lilith is definitely hot and Ereškigal is scorching. so to are Hina in all her aspects and Sedna...reminders of what can be found when we look deep into the scary places.

thank you for the words on balance and harmony. i have much to learn and hope to always remain open to wherever and whoever that learning can be gleaned from.

peace and best wishes....
carrie

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 30

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:26:02 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings candystripper,

i think this is an interesting topic, partly because it shows that many of us have different opinions about what it means to be a bitch. i was raised in a family of bitches - as in, strong women who had to be independent and assertive, and yes, aggressive when need be. i was raised to be a bitch. i have always been the black sheep in many ways because of my relationship choices and just my personality in general, but i was taught from an early age to stand up for myself; i've learned that some call that being independent, some call it being feminine, some call it being strong, some call it being a bitch. the label isn't as important to me as the action. He teases me by calling me bitch fairly often, actually. if i were to truly assert my will over His, i'd be out the door in a second, and that's the way the relationship is - i signed on for it and i like it that way. because of the dynamic of our relationship, occasionally He does want me to assert myself with Him and to use the skills i have because of how i was raised and what i've been through in the last several years in terms of learning to be self-sufficient - because it is helpful for our relationship - and He encourages me to do it in my interactions with other people quite often. i don't have really negative associations with the word bitch, i guess, which is why it doesn't bother me that this character trait or whatever is labeled in that way. i also don't consider it a necessity in master/slave relationships in general; it's just in certain situations because of how He reacts He prefers that i do assert myself sometimes, so it works for us in those particular situations. but it's not something that i feel a need to hold onto in the relationship, although it is something that i struggled with reconciling because of how i was raised.

respectfully,
a'ishah.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to CarrieO)

Post #: 31

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:40:04 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Anyone who saw the movie "Dolores Clayborn' probably remembers the line:

'Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hang on to.'

I've always loved that line and think it's true. There are sitations in life where unless you can marshall your 'inner bitch' you're in a world of hurt.

I see many Ops and posts on the boards decrying the 'bitchiness' of some submissives, but I feel even after I'm collared, I will still need my 'inner bitch'.

* I might need it to deal with a persistent problem without a lot of agro.

* I might need it to communicate to my Dom that He is dangerously close to the limit of my patience/endurance/acceptance.

* I might need it on behalf of someone I love who encounters difficulties and needs my help.

* I might need it to safely handle a volitale situation; some people respond to a soft voice by acting out even more, but will retreat if 'confronted' by a strong woman.

What do you think?

candystripper

I think you are clueless. Being a bitch is about a woman who has anger issues. Another version is someone who is into puppy play and likes to be called a bitch.....

The term your looking for is inner strength, and willing to confront people to protect your own welfare.

change inner-bitch to inner-strength......and there you go....

Every person should be taught inner-strength......

You know, someone called me an asshole, and I was like, yea, whatever, you can think that is what I am, but its not who I am...I just have inner-strength and show it occasionally. ;0

If someone thinks your a bitch, because you have inner-strength, then who cares.....

And if you want to get combative with me, My retort is Whose your daddy? lol

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 32

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:42:20 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings candystripper,

i think this is an interesting topic, partly because it shows that many of us have different opinions about what it means to be a bitch. i was raised in a family of bitches - as in, strong women who had to be independent and assertive, and yes, aggressive when need be. i was raised to be a bitch. i have always been the black sheep in many ways because of my relationship choices and just my personality in general, but i was taught from an early age to stand up for myself; i've learned that some call that being independent, some call it being feminine, some call it being strong, some call it being a bitch. the label isn't as important to me as the action. He teases me by calling me bitch fairly often, actually. if i were to truly assert my will over His, i'd be out the door in a second, and that's the way the relationship is - i signed on for it and i like it that way. because of the dynamic of our relationship, occasionally He does want me to assert myself with Him and to use the skills i have because of how i was raised and what i've been through in the last several years in terms of learning to be self-sufficient - because it is helpful for our relationship - and He encourages me to do it in my interactions with other people quite often. i don't have really negative associations with the word bitch, i guess, which is why it doesn't bother me that this character trait or whatever is labeled in that way. i also don't consider it a necessity in master/slave relationships in general; it's just in certain situations because of how He reacts He prefers that i do assert myself sometimes, so it works for us in those particular situations. but it's not something that i feel a need to hold onto in the relationship, although it is something that i struggled with reconciling because of how i was raised.

respectfully,
a'ishah.

sorry, you were taught wrong. Your a human, not a dog.....
see what I wrote above about inner-bitch vs inner-strength

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 33

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:48:47 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

Being a strong, independent, confident, willing to stand up for her beliefs, her loved ones and what's right does not make a woman a bitch. Willing to throw around what she thinks as strong, independence, etc. at the expense of others is what qualifies her as a bitch (imo).

inner-strength is your first part.....having anger issues and yelling (when it isn't appropriate) is being a bitch....

Women often get bitchy, having emotional issues, and aren't logical every so often at that time of the month, it has nothing to do with inner-strength, women who cannot control their own angry emotions = they become bitches....

Willing to throw around what she thinks as strong, independence, etc. at the expense of others is what qualifies her as a bitch (imo) = depends on if she is willing to be rational or not, if she is irrationally angry, then she has fallen into bitchdom.....

If a woman is rationally angry because of the situation, she isn't being a bitch.....

If I call you a bitch, which I have never really called any woman, trust me, you are a bitch....or at least acting bitchy at that point in time..... ;0

And don't start bitching at me because you need to be corrected.....

(in reply to kallisto)

Post #: 34

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:50:35 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings kevin,

sorry you feel that way! it's worked for me so far - and honestly i'm more interested in what works for me in my relationship with Him as His slave than whether or not this means i must now be reclassified as a "lower" form of animal. but hey...i'm the one who has to pay my bills and go to my job and pass my classes and get through everyday life and most importantly please Him...so...i do what works :) like i said, call it strength, call it independence, call it being a bitch, say calling it being a bitch totally doesn't apply, however YOU want to label it.

respectfully,
a'ishah.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 6/27/2008 10:51:44 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 35

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:56:32 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Just a comment:

When I read the op, I read 'inner bitch' to be something comparible to 'inner child.' One who is in touch with their inner child doesn't go around acting like a child, they're just connected with their child selves. Similarly, one can be connected with their 'inner bitch' without being bitchy.

Sorry, that wasn't how I read it at all. Anyhows, I wanted to comment on your talking about inner-child. Very few people acknowledge that they are in touch with their inner-child. Most people act childish without knowing it, even as adults. I know I do.

If your in touch with your wants and desires, then you are in touch with your inner-child. What do you really want and desire, there you go.

Another aspect is not just your child or adult, but your elderly/wise side......

If you know what you should do in a given situation and act wisely, then you are in touch with this aspect of yourself.

I like to think at any given point in time I'm in touch with all three, so if I act a bit chaotic, its not because I'm not wise, its just because I purposely choosed to act like my inner-child in that particular instance/sentence/moment in time......

I can choose to act whatever age I choose to act, regardless of how old I really am....

some people are not so fortunate, and are childish or without common sense.....

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 36

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 10:58:26 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

a'ishah... thats beautiful! what does it mean? *hugs*

(and kudos, for as always being so gracious in your posts..)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 37

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 11:00:29 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

Aswad... see, one of the things I like about you is that I almost always learn something from your posts.... I knew who Lilith was.. but I had to go look up the others :) Thank you :)

(about those stickers and patches?? LOL)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 38

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 11:09:47 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

a'ishah... thats beautiful! what does it mean? *hugs*

(and kudos, for as always being so gracious in your posts..)

yes, i am she of the many names...LOL! actually integrating my online identities has been odd since everyone in "real life" knows me by my given name, meghan, and everyone here and on a few other places knows me as annabelle, because i used it as a nickname for so long. so actually changing my real name to a'ishah is becoming a very slow and painful and odd process...and i haven't even gotten to filing all the legal forms yet!

a'ishah means "she who lives." it was the name of the third wife of the prophet (peace be upon him)...she was really awesome - she was one of the first to memorize the qur'an, and she was a lawgiver and teacher. in islam there is a long tradition of narrating hadith, or sayings/practices of the prophet...she was one of the foremost narrators of hadith. she also led armies into battle and other cool stuff like that but i really feel kinship to her story because of her situation - she married him at a young age and was basically put into a really important position in the community and she was just an amazingly graceful and knowledgeable woman. if you're ever interested in her (or any of the other wives of the prophet) i have an awesome cd collection about her in mp3 that i could link you to :) check your messages also!

also...aswad and carrieo! sometimes i think i'm the only person in the world who even knows who ereshkigal is! :) talk about amazing.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 6/27/2008 11:11:14 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 39

RE: The Submissive and The Bitch - 6/27/2008 11:10:20 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I would expect to be dumped faster than fast if I acted like a bitch to my dom.

And some Doms would deny themselves the opportunity to put you in your place - any fool can point to the door....

Focus.

So true. It takes a strong man to handle a strong woman.
I'm a very strong/strong-willed woman and I always have more respect for a man that can master me without showing me to the door at the first sign of disagreement.
Being a bitch and being strong are two very different things.

*candystripper......the things you listed are simply what a strong woman would do.

peace.....carrie

Okay I admit it; I'm a bit confused. I think back on the times when I was called a bitch and see very little I'd change if given the chance.

I'm not sure I equate being a strong woman with being a bitch. If you are a strong woman, you are always strong: all day, all week, all year. But any woman probably has it in her to dig deep and find the voice that communicates 'I've had enough' at least in extreme circumstances.

I also don't equate being a bitch with being a brat. Behaving in a way calculated to annoy the hell out of someone seems a little childish to me, and I'm unclear why anyone would act this way towards their Dom, of all people.

Maybe some people are just uncomfortable with the word bitch when applied to a submissive. I suppose that's possible -- but there seems to be such willingness on most people's part to call them sluts and other perjoratives -- so why the 'ewww' factor where bitch is concerned?

candystripper

(in reply to CarrieO)

Post #: 40

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