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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:00:02 PM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

That is harsh about him not willing to change with you. Deep down, I do envision that with his control and help that is oh so strict at first, would somehow strengthen me so I would be slowly able to do a bit more on my own. But I still always want his control. I'm the one who usually doesn't want to have to try to do anything on my own, so it would be really hurtful if the Dom wasn't encouraging that a bit, much less not willing to let you do what you should for yourself.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 61

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:02:13 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I have had similar experience with ELegant and all the work she does. Folks are always thanking Us for all the work SHE does.
For us I think we ended up figureing out the idea of I contribiuted by allowing her to do things that served the community. (yeah took me awhile to get to where I could really buy into that one too.)

In the end the only accolades I can take credit for in her achievements are the ones of seeing the value in letting her grow and making sure she took the opportunities when they came up. (because she worried about me being properly served if she was doing this instead). Maybe inspireing a little part of the discipline she needed ( Archer truth #1 All Discipline is self discipline) and maybe regulating the amount of time she is willing to give to any and everyone who asks for her time, preventing burn out. Beyond that I have become known for the idea that with Elegant it's mostly a matter of winding her up pointing her in a direction and turning her loose.

Not exactly your own style but more similar than what many of the more traditional D/s models.

Since it's fun to assign blame I BLAME PIGMALION AUTHOR Jean Phillipee Rameau. LOL

I'm sorry dude, you seem okay, but call a spade a spade. Lesbian boi on your profile, and your straight, WTF.....

Um going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume the girl is actually female, dresses as a guy (butch), and you can pretend to not have gay issues you want to keep in the closet.......uh, yea, stay in the closet dude.....and she can get her D/s met but is really involved with the girl who is also lesbian and "serving the community"......um, yea......

I'm sorry, if I'm smacking someone's behind to teach discipline, I don't see how that can be self-taught.....

If you want to show me how you can smack your own behind to teach yourself discipline, I'd like to see it. ;0

And forget the fact that I insinuated the point of smacking your own behind at all..... ;0

If I'm not there to give hands-on training, then of course I'd have to rely on self-training to some degree.....

I'm sorry, but the reality is that if you've got your act together, you attract people who have their act together.

If you have self-esteem issues and your life is basically fucked up, your going to attract those types of people who also have issues....

My general rule of thumb is stop having self-esteem issues, don't think bad negative thoughts about yourself, and do something postive to change, even small changes are good....

Every day before you go to bed, think about what you did that was positive....

Don't do drugs, and don't get so involved in other people's lives that they drag you down into shit that isn't healthy....

Don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink, and don't use painkillers (if you don't have a debilittating disease where your in chronic, unnecessary pain)......some pain is good, it tells the body important information for most people.....

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 62

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:02:40 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette

I have no idea why, but my Dominant getting the credit doesn't bother me, in the least. After reading your post, I'm starting to wonder if it should. There are certain things that could never be controlled by anyone other than myself, but as for the rest, it really doesn't make a difference.

Thank you for posting this, though. I'm trying to think back and see if I've ever credited a Dominant with a submissive's success. I don't think so, but I'll be sure to keep it in mind. This isn't something I've really thought about, but it is important to credit the correct person.

if he has put work into the things he is getting credit for then yay.....and if you co created those goals then double yay....what was so irking for me was that there was this assumption that he made me the way i was....that i needed structure and control....it was the 1950s all over again....and it felt so patronising...and marginalising...

and the idea that really got my goat was the assumption that all d/s relationships work the same way....i have no need or desire for external direction and steering...but that does not change for a moment that if he askes me to anything i will drop everything to do it....it does not change our sacred contract to one another....

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 63

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:06:35 PM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

Willing to defend the other with your life is definitely part of my definition of love as well. Finding someone to love me is what's really impossible, I s'pose. I can't even get started with it, though. Oh, Dr. Phil definitely isn't qualified. He isn't licensed anymore..

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 64

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:11:15 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

That is harsh about him not willing to change with you. Deep down, I do envision that with his control and help that is oh so strict at first, would somehow strengthen me so I would be slowly able to do a bit more on my own. But I still always want his control. I'm the one who usually doesn't want to have to try to do anything on my own, so it would be really hurtful if the Dom wasn't encouraging that a bit, much less not willing to let you do what you should for yourself.

did you know that apathy is really fear?

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 65

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:13:12 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette

I have no idea why, but my Dominant getting the credit doesn't bother me, in the least. After reading your post, I'm starting to wonder if it should. There are certain things that could never be controlled by anyone other than myself, but as for the rest, it really doesn't make a difference.

Thank you for posting this, though. I'm trying to think back and see if I've ever credited a Dominant with a submissive's success. I don't think so, but I'll be sure to keep it in mind. This isn't something I've really thought about, but it is important to credit the correct person.

if he has put work into the things he is getting credit for then yay.....and if you co created those goals then double yay....what was so irking for me was that there was this assumption that he made me the way i was....that i needed structure and control....it was the 1950s all over again....and it felt so patronising...and marginalising...

and the idea that really got my goat was the assumption that all d/s relationships work the same way....i have no need or desire for external direction and steering...but that does not change for a moment that if he askes me to anything i will drop everything to do it....it does not change our sacred contract to one another....

I completely get it. It would irk me if some of my professional successes were attributed to somone other than myself. In fact, I think that's why I understand. I've worked my ass off only to have someone else get the credit. It leads me to this stunning moment where it's best I stay silent.

The personal successes don't bother me so much. I have no earthly idea why. I'd like to cop out and say it's my submissive tendencies, but really, it's not that either.

I can completely appreciate where you're coming from though, even if I'm looking at it through a professional capacity. This thread has made me more cognizant of what submissives do on their own. So, thank you for venting and putting it out there, because I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I suppose, that's my small mind poking through.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 66

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:14:12 PM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

No, I didn't. But that make sense, I think. Why do you mention it? Because I don't want to do things for myself?

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 67

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:18:25 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

Why did it stop being hot?
....hmmm because i outgrew my slavery...not my slave heart...just the need for micromanging...and so i asked, respectfully of course, if we could evolve into more...something more satisfying....and he said no...and that is when it stopped being hot, because i was inlove with him...he was inlove with the idea of me, as long as i stayed in my role he could love me, but when i would put a finger outside of my guilded cage, it would be chopped off.

quote:

is that true? yes.
can you really know that that is true? well, i have been single for quite a long time.
who would you be if you did not believe that was true? i'm not sure... that has never happened. or well, i thought it did once, but i was wrong. me, but wanted. :P better. but it's impossible.

but what if it did?

re: kevin, at this point we have to stop feeding him....he is going to self destruct....its not pretty to watch....

sorry sweety, self destruct? I'm not the one who was being self-destructive.....you really think I hate women? nope. I don't hate women.....can I do without any. Sure, its called self-control.

I don't like women telling me shit, you want my real opinion, I don't like women telling me their wants and desires and trying to make the illusion its okay.....

Some shit is just sick, there is only very few instances where its okay, there is a definite line, and if your so clueless as to not know, you should be put on a short leash....your life should be micro-managed.....

I'm sorry, if I hit you with a bull-whip so hard you scar, I'm sure your in the school of thought that yea, its kewl, its in the name of BDSM.....we are Hardcore about it......

There is a rightway to do things and a wrongway, you cross into the wrongway, and its the highway for you, moreover, its no longer about love.....

I love someone, she kills someone and asks my help to hide the body, um, sorry, did you kill him in self defense......I call the police and you take your chances.......I say what I know, etc........there is the moral, ethical highroad, the right way, and the low, immoral or amoral low road, the wrong way......

I can still unconditionally love you, but I still have to do what is right......

Now, if I didn't think you were full of shit about being 9 finger amy, I'd of done something more than call you on your bullshit.....

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 68

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:22:51 PM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

*blink* Random, not sure what's going on, but if a guy ever scarred me with anything, it'd be over, even if we were together for 60 years and it was an accident. And I'm loyal to an absolute fault and will take just about anything. I have about 800,000 scars now, he better be careful enough to not do anymore damage to me. Another random comment, ethics and morals are very different. I'm ridiculously moral, but I can be very unethical. I'm the chaotic good character in D&D. :P Being ethical doesn't make you more right/good.

< Message edited by hermione83 -- 6/28/2008 11:23:40 PM >

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 69

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/28/2008 11:54:50 PM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

That is harsh about him not willing to change with you. Deep down, I do envision that with his control and help that is oh so strict at first, would somehow strengthen me so I would be slowly able to do a bit more on my own. But I still always want his control. I'm the one who usually doesn't want to have to try to do anything on my own, so it would be really hurtful if the Dom wasn't encouraging that a bit, much less not willing to let you do what you should for yourself.

did you know that apathy is really fear?

Did you know that caring when people don't care is lame?

Did you know that apathy is very healthy when people are trying to fuck with you?

Did you know that sometimes you should be fearful, because if you're cutting off your fingers, don't go bragging about it?

Did you know that most people fear something, and fear itself often has good reasons behind it? Fear of strangers, etc........A little bit of paranoa is healthy......

Do you know the difference between right and wrong, because if you don't, and you want to defend yourself, feel free? ;0 I've already come to the conclusion your stupid Amy, and its going to take alot of work on your part to convince me otherwise.....

Stupid people really cannot help other people, except stupidly.....http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ - movie idiocracy....

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 70

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:04:19 AM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

Apparently there's something deeper going on here that I've missed. Why insult each other? Good movie though..

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 71

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:06:17 AM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

Did you know that caring when people don't care is lame? >> Who says? Some of what you said has some truth to it, but this one doesn't. It's called being inspiration to be better for others. Turning the other cheek is not lame. Anyone can love those who loved them first. But how much better is it to be the first to love?

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 72

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:09:06 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

*blink* Random, not sure what's going on, but if a guy ever scarred me with anything, it'd be over, even if we were together for 60 years and it was an accident. And I'm loyal to an absolute fault and will take just about anything. I have about 800,000 scars now, he better be careful enough to not do anymore damage to me. Another random comment, ethics and morals are very different. I'm ridiculously moral, but I can be very unethical. I'm the chaotic good character in D&D. :P Being ethical doesn't make you more right/good.

Sorry, I'm putting Amy, the girl who thinks she is Mrs phil in her proper place....

um, yea, chaotic good uh? Sorry, I know all about AD&D and all about morals/ethics. You're confusing the differences between law and randomness/chaotic stuff with Morals and ethics......Knowing the differnce between right and wrong is knowing what is good & evil, that is moral and ethical. Now how much you follow the law determines how lawful, neutral, or chaotic you are.

Generally loving Anarchy isn't in a Chaotic Good person's character.....because total chaos causes alot of destruction, loss of life, etc, its not GOOD or moral......controlled chaos on the other hand, can make life more exciting, and that is what a CHAOTIC GOOD character likes....

Chaotic good likes morals and ethics, but doesn't particular like too many rules and laws, although sometimes they are a necessary evil, at least according to a chaotic good person/avatar/character.

Now, for instance, a chaotic good character might not particular like the police(law enforcement), but that doesn't mean a chaotic good will never rely on them to do what is right.

Lawful evils don't care a whit about human suffering, they care about the laws completely, what can they get away with......but at least they are more organized about it.....they will get together and work towards a common goal....If a Lawful evil character tells you something, at least you can believe them, because Lawful characters try to not tell lies.....

Chaotic evils are the worst, because they are not interested in even cooperation, they truly want as much destruction/anarchy as possible......

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 73

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:13:53 AM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
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"Alignment is central to a D&D character's personality. D&D uses two measures to determine a specific character's ethical and moral attitudes and behavior. The moral axis has three positions: good, neutral and evil. Good characters generally care about the welfare of others. Neutral people generally care about their own welfare. Evil people generally seek to harm the others' welfare. The ethical axis has three positions as well: lawful, neutral, and chaotic. Lawful people generally follow the social rules as they understand them. Neutral people follow those rules find convenient or obviously necessary. And chaotic people seek to upset the social order and either institute change, or simply create anarchy."

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 74

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:15:24 AM

hermione83

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Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

""Chaotic Good, “Rebel”:

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society."

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 75

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:22:12 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

Did you know that caring when people don't care is lame? >> Who says? Some of what you said has some truth to it, but this one doesn't. It's called being inspiration to be better for others. Turning the other cheek is not lame. Anyone can love those who loved them first. But how much better is it to be the first to love?

I'm sorry, that wasn't meant for your virgin ears. ;0 um, yea, your innocent, yea......;0

There is a point when you have to fight for what is right, its not that you don't care, but that you care too much. You know, if someone steps over too many boundaries that they end up absolutely wrong, you got to beat them into some semblance of sense......its called loving discipline.....Amy needs alot of it......ask her, that is what she wants..... ;0

You know, a parent can love you, but if they are going to teach you right from wrong, they have to act responsibly. They cannot try to be your friend at all times, although they can be friendly with you. Its how people learn the difference from right from wrong in the first place....It should be taught by the parents, or society if the parents are stupid/clueless...

I don't think a person should act innocently about not knowing the difference between right and wrong, it pissed me off in another thread.....they stepped over a boundary I don't think is appropriate....worse, I rather of just leet them be, but Amy is dumb enough to ask me for my opinion after I wanted to ignore them....so yea, its personal....

Its about cannabalism and all sorts of whacked out shit, Amy is over here pretending or actually cutting off her finger.....whatever......if she doesn't want to be micromanaged, don't pretend to me you cannot control your whacked out shamanalistic shroom experiences....I really don't like people who cannot control their own impulses and get fucked up advice from stupid people who should know better....

Don't get fucked up advice from people who don't ring true to what you are, and be better informed about morality & ethics. Look it up in a dictionary......

(in reply to hermione83)

Post #: 76

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:32:03 AM

ModeratorEleven

Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline

That's about enough of the personal attacks. Chill out please.

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 77

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:33:02 AM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

Really though, morals and ethics are totally different things. And I didn't say chaotic good characters are just randomly chaotic. It's just what the above definition says. And your definition of lawful evil is more what a true neutral is, sort of. And the neutral evil character is the most dangerous, actually. And I personally dislike the lawful evil personality the most. The chaotic evils are more flawed and less dangerous than the other two. Evil means they will go out of their way to harm others. I don't have any scruples, which makes me on the unethical/ chaotic side of the rule books. That doesn't mean I just disobey for no reason, since I'm a good. Anyway, trust me, I know plenty about D&D as well. I'm quite the nerdy girl. Anyway, not sure what you're talking about.... but I don't have any impulse control myself, but I do want to be micromanaged so I don't do stupid things like get frostbite (again) next winter. :P And, your definition of caring must be different than mine or the textbook definition. Discipline can absolutely be caring. I never gave specifics on what caring meant. Of course that is true. Not caring can mean you leave someone to their own devices, you know. I get woozy happy and silly when someone makes me do something good and is hard on me sometimes that they think I'm laughing *at* them and being an insulting brat. I just appreciate it so much, as no one generally does that for me, and it communicates a lot of love to me. I never got any of that as a kid. Anyway, that was probably way tmi..

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 78

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:38:39 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

You know, there is a fairy dragon in AD&D, and its supposed to be chaotic good. It can kill lesser creatures, and although the stuff it does is mostly chaotic, it did kill a few characters in a compaign I was running accidentally. The person didn't appreciate it and didn't understand chaotic good in the context that I understand it.....

Its possible for someone with good intentions to still make mistakes.......the fairy dragon has a flesh to stone spell effect that can randomly happen, and when reversed, can kill.....its a random system shock roll based off constitution......kind of like, the weak die, the strong survive type of thing........Fairy Dragons are from first edition, probably in monster manual 2.....

Anyhows, my version of chaotic good is more accurate than yours, and I don't attribute myself to those alignments any more.....they are kind of, well, childish.....if I was going to say what I am, I'm more in line with Neutral Good.....with tendancies towards chaotic....and with a deep understanding of the other alignments. I like the idea of live and let live, but if you ask me to step in and be judgemental, don't then ask me to stop being judgemental, because I'm going to stop when I'm ready, not you.....

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 79

RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:46:52 AM

hermione83

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

I don't feel the need to get long lists of examples of specific characters, as it has nothing to do with it, as it was more of an analogy on life, but I don't think you could have that good of an understanding when you don't understand the difference between morals and ethics. But anyway, if you usually believe in "live and let live" it's very unlikely you would be "good." A chaotic good character, say, a bard/sorcerer multi-class, will fight just as hard at defending good as the lawful good Paladin. And a chaotic good will fight just as hard for a revolution or personal spirituality / beliefs to stop a law, power, authority etc. as they will to keep one if needs be. They tend to be suspicious of corrupt powers, and worry about dictatorships. Paladins can be a bit blinded by their faith in law and order. Chaotic goods can be a bit too skeptical. I would say Jesus was a neutral good... it was always about the meaning, and the goodnes to him, and not the law himself. But he would abide by the law unless there was a reason to break it. And often when "breaking" it he wasn't breaking it at all. More, using it by the word of the law, and less of the letter of the law. Anyway, all of his followers were good. They varied on the neutral/lawful/chaotic "thing." And that was usually just fine. Being more like Jesus is best. Nevermind.. I've got to go to bed. Church then work in a few hours...

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 80

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