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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 12:47:53 AM

Archer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I have had similar experience with ELegant and all the work she does. Folks are always thanking Us for all the work SHE does.
For us I think we ended up figureing out the idea of I contribiuted by allowing her to do things that served the community. (yeah took me awhile to get to where I could really buy into that one too.)

In the end the only accolades I can take credit for in her achievements are the ones of seeing the value in letting her grow and making sure she took the opportunities when they came up. (because she worried about me being properly served if she was doing this instead). Maybe inspireing a little part of the discipline she needed ( Archer truth #1 All Discipline is self discipline) and maybe regulating the amount of time she is willing to give to any and everyone who asks for her time, preventing burn out. Beyond that I have become known for the idea that with Elegant it's mostly a matter of winding her up pointing her in a direction and turning her loose.

Not exactly your own style but more similar than what many of the more traditional D/s models.

Since it's fun to assign blame I BLAME PIGMALION AUTHOR Jean Phillipee Rameau. LOL

I'm sorry dude, you seem okay, but call a spade a spade. Lesbian boi on your profile, and your straight, WTF.....

Um going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume the girl is actually female, dresses as a guy (butch), and you can pretend to not have gay issues you want to keep in the closet.......uh, yea, stay in the closet dude.....and she can get her D/s met but is really involved with the girl who is also lesbian and "serving the community"......um, yea......

I'm sorry, if I'm smacking someone's behind to teach discipline, I don't see how that can be self-taught.....

If you want to show me how you can smack your own behind to teach yourself discipline, I'd like to see it. ;0

And forget the fact that I insinuated the point of smacking your own behind at all..... ;0

If I'm not there to give hands-on training, then of course I'd have to rely on self-training to some degree.....

I'm sorry, but the reality is that if you've got your act together, you attract people who have their act together.

If you have self-esteem issues and your life is basically fucked up, your going to attract those types of people who also have issues....

My general rule of thumb is stop having self-esteem issues, don't think bad negative thoughts about yourself, and do something postive to change, even small changes are good....

Every day before you go to bed, think about what you did that was positive....

Don't do drugs, and don't get so involved in other people's lives that they drag you down into shit that isn't healthy....

Don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink, and don't use painkillers (if you don't have a debilittating disease where your in chronic, unnecessary pain)......some pain is good, it tells the body important information for most people.....

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 1:00:16 AM

wwwkevinww

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I'm very sensitive and caring, probably too much......its in my own selfish interest to not care, so yea, its my own personal choice. I'm sorry that you accidentally got frost-bite, and strongly suggest you don't go outside for long periods of time in the winter without properly dressing up.

If I'm apathetic to a person, its because they deserve my apathy, because they were pretending I should care.......or asking for my thoughts......

I have no apathy towards you, you have my sympathy hermoione83. If I tell you ethics and morality are similiar ideals, its because they are......

I actually went and pulled my players handbook 2nd edition regarding the passage you quoted.....it says chaotic good chars have little use for law abiding characters like paladins.....something along those lines, its pretty much what they mean......Little use and no use is a slight but notable difference.....

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/morality - perhaps your getting too lost in the trees to see the forest.......a chaotic good character does have a code of ethics, they prefer to flit around and be chaotic, a free spirit, but if push comes to shove, they are honor bound to do what is right, over chaos.....

If you are more interested in chaos over good, you're really chaotic neutral.....Anything evil is bad, most people at least try to pretend to be good, wolves in sheeps clothing.....
A lawful evil is better than either of neutral or chaotic because at least they try to keep their words.....and generally tell the truth (as best they understand it, although they probably won't admit to being evil directly).......

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 1:10:13 AM

wwwkevinww

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Well you want to check the truth of the matter out my reputation is very much in the open with the community.

Lane my boi is a lesbian with a partner, our relationship is not sexual but we do practice SM. My role in her life is very much that of a Leather Daddy.
Elegant my slave is Hetero and on this site please feel free to check her profile. Our relationship has been 9+ years now as M/s and 6 years being married. That relationship is sexual. Plenty of folks here on CM can actually vouch for the truth of all the points in my profile maybe with the exception of the years involved because, I'm not sure how many folks from Dallas in the late 90's are actually here on this site.

Want to call BS go ahead I have plenty of verifiable references.
Just google up BDSM Master Archer and you'll find me cited a few times in a few places.
I have no gay male issues because I'm confident enough in my sexual nature to do SM with men and not feel it's threatening anything sexual. Don't make the classic mistake of assuming because you haven't or couldn't do it that someone else can't or hasn't.

Edited to flesh out the google to include the BDSM because it eliminates alot of bad matches
--------------
I'm familiar with the old leather man articles, and they were mostly about gay stuff....

you seem like the Old guard, and I'm familiar with them...for me, anything regarding S/M or B&D is sexual in nature, but of course I guess if it was involving another male (which I would find distateful because its non-sexual by nature), My teachings wouldn't exactly follow OLD GUARD rhetoric.....

Anyhows, if you know the difference between right and wrong, can you convince Amy to stop mutilating herself or trying to convince me that she does intentionally? ;0 And teach her the difference between people who know shit and don't care about posting, and people who are clueless and post a ton to up their "rankings"....

I'll formally apologize to you, at least you were forthright in your assertions and seem genuine.....I can appreciate people who are genuine....or at least trying to be....

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 1:14:03 AM

hermione83

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I didn't say they complimented each other well, anywhere. I said they would both fight for good. And I never said a chaotic good put being "chaotic" in front of being good, to the contrary. I'm talking about ethics and morals. Following the law can be evil in and of itself, sometimes. Conformity in society has nothing to do with being good. And a chaotic good character believes in what they believe in, not based on what laws man has written. They will fight and abide by their own moral code, not the ethical stipulations made by others. Paladins feel strongly about honoring the king of the land and the law of the land. Chaotic good characters look for the motives in others for evil and question those in power as quickly as they would question anyone else. Paladins can be a bit blind. I realize the difference, but that's your opinion is that is the better of the three options, but I doubt this thread is the place to argue it, but I definitely think lawful evil characters are dangerous for many reasons. One, that they are often in places of power in the public. They form powerful organizations easily. They are not as easy to spot. They are formidable. Chaotic evil characters are on the run, and they take so many risks and violate so many people that they earn few friends, and find their downfall shortly, for one.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 3:01:28 AM

wwwkevinww

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I didn't say they complimented each other well, anywhere. I said they would both fight for good. And I never said a chaotic good put being "chaotic" in front of being good, to the contrary. I'm talking about ethics and morals. Following the law can be evil in and of itself, sometimes. Conformity in society has nothing to do with being good. And a chaotic good character believes in what they believe in, not based on what laws man has written. They will fight and abide by their own moral code, not the ethical stipulations made by others. Paladins feel strongly about honoring the king of the land and the law of the land. Chaotic good characters look for the motives in others for evil and question those in power as quickly as they would question anyone else. Paladins can be a bit blind. I realize the difference, but that's your opinion is that is the better of the three options, but I doubt this thread is the place to argue it, but I definitely think lawful evil characters are dangerous for many reasons. One, that they are often in places of power in the public. They form powerful organizations easily. They are not as easy to spot. They are formidable. Chaotic evil characters are on the run, and they take so many risks and violate so many people that they earn few friends, and find their downfall shortly, for one.

You know, ethics and morality are synonymous with each other........for general purposes, they mean the same thing....
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/ethics

Your trying to make sense of Gary Gygax's writings, but that guy wasn't always correct in terms of the larger picture.....In one instance he wrote about the value of cantrips, overpricing them, which was a pretty obvious mistake.....Later when asked he came up with some very lame excuse on why it wasn't overpriced.......it was obviously overpriced, burp spells worth 1K GP.......or magicians who care about their spell books (which they should), shouldn't really carry that much about cantrips lower than first level.........the point of alot of those books were to suck you in and get you to buy them all, a similiar marketing tool that is still used today.....There have been multiple editions, and they haven't really changed the system that much to warrent so many editions....besides the obvious point of making alot of money off fanatics to AD&D......now I like AD&D alot also, but you gotta recognize the truth when its obvious....

Now overall, Gary Gygax wasn't a horrible guy, he's dead after all (don't speak ill of the dead), but the rumor is that he didn't exactly originate the idea himself, but was the one to publish said idea from his roleplaying group......

You are trying to evoke games into reflecting real life, and the truth is that although somewhat useful, isn't actually completely relevant......

You know, there are people into BDSM and believe in it so much, they actually make it 24/7 and it no longer becomes a game to them, its their "reality". These people think mostly in terms of power exchange and either giving or getting control. This is the fake, immoral, game construct that allows people to lose touch with what is normal and not be able to differentiate between what is Moral and what isn't.

There are other people who love various fictional authors people wrote, from Gor to whatever, and they model their entire BDSM experience around these fictional accounts, pretty much idolizing the fiction by making it their "reality".

I think having a high degree of survival instinct is healthy, thinking too highly of Jesus isn't healthy because Jesus was a Matyr, who didn't prize his own self worth enough....he was a healer and a good man, but forgot an old lesson taught by the jews. God helps those who help themselves. If you rely on GOD for everything, and do not rely on your own god-given talents (like a brain), then bad things can happen to you. Jesus was a good man and healer, but he should of realized that not everyone was nice. Being too "nice" in a corrupt and evil world can end your life abruptly......Jesus symbolizes unconditional love, and in AD&D terms would be more along the lines of a LG char..........

You can have fun and games all you want as long as it doesn't conflict with survival, but survival is more important than playing games, and the games need to stop if someone gets hurt or your survival becomes an issue.....

Being a realist is extremely important in BDSM, because if you cannot tell fantasy from reality, you might not be able to tell when your in danger or not. Often this is romantisized and its the DOM who needs to be more concerned with this than the submissive, but it should be the submissives job to inform the DOM if the DOM misses that things are getting out of hand......

Subspace is exceptionally dangerous, because by definition, the Submissive loses the natural inclination for survival....

Anyhows, I've enjoyed our discourse Hermione83. I hope you find what your looking for........I hate to get all polyana on ya but believe there is love for everyone.......

::skips off to bed humming hymms ::

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 4:01:09 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Why is he not slapping this shit down when people start in that way?

I sure as hell would.

My diet is my responsibility. Then I for sure, I defo would give you the credit for slapping me around......smiles. Anyone could see the difference.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 4:04:27 AM

came4U

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<just saw the word slappin' again and had to run and see if it anything good.

I got excited n all.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 4:45:38 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

if he has put work into the things he is getting credit for then yay.....and if you co created those goals then double yay....what was so irking for me was that there was this assumption that he made me the way i was....that i needed structure and control....it was the 1950s all over again....and it felt so patronising...and marginalising...

and the idea that really got my goat was the assumption that all d/s relationships work the same way....i have no need or desire for external direction and steering...but that does not change for a moment that if he askes me to anything i will drop everything to do it....it does not change our sacred contract to one another....

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 4:47:39 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

<just saw the word slappin' again and had to run and see if it anything good.

I got excited n all.

dear came4U
slap slapped slapper slappest

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 5:58:15 AM

TNstepsout

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Ok I haven't read the whole thread and I'm being lazy, but you are probably getting these comments from people who are putting off making changes for themselves by using the excuse that they haven't found the "perfect Master" yet. It sounds like a great opportunity to share the knowledge you have gained and reccommend books, seminars etc... Either you will bore them to death and they will leave you alone, or they will pick up some good information and make some changes themselves. It's a win/win. *g*

Please disregard if 20 other people have already mentioned this.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 6:31:49 AM

Lumus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

Jesus was a neutral good...

*stops in his tracks, cold*

As a son of a former minister and current DM [two decades, bloody hell, where does the time go] - you just gave me an ear-splitting grin.

Leaving the game talk aside - pity, nothing like using roleplay analogies for a real-life parallel, even though they do end up often resulting in character assassination in more ways than one - morals are a generalized definition of acceptable behaviour; ethics are conduct codes which may, or may not, be subject to personal definition [like morals]. It's whether you escalate the individual over society, really, and how one applies that to oneself. So, like so many other generalizations, ethics and morals are subjective.

The common argument for that is displayed through dinstinctly differing social definitions of suicide - is it a crime? Does it have moral repercussions? Some cultures validate suicide under certain conditions, whereas it's a mortal sin by the tenets of Catholicism. Rather than expound on the too-many what-if's laying in that particular mine field, I just go ahead and assume none of the Japanese suicide pilots were Catholic.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 7:47:12 AM

crouchingtigress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

[

if he has put work into the things he is getting credit for then yay.....and if you co created those goals then double yay....what was so irking for me was that there was this assumption that he made me the way i was....that i needed structure and control....it was the 1950s all over again....and it felt so patronising...and marginalising...

and the idea that really got my goat was the assumption that all d/s relationships work the same way....i have no need or desire for external direction and steering...but that does not change for a moment that if he askes me to anything i will drop everything to do it....it does not change our sacred contract to one another....

I absolutely understand what you are saying here. And I am also reading between the lines and this is what I read as the inherent agenda: this is a perfect descriton (to my way of feeling) of a dominant submissive relationship held as the kernel, the external form of which is at a deeper level a slave's relationship with her Master. OK flame me, send in the clowns....but it's so clear to me. A Master/slave relationship is an intense form of symbiosis. Whilst to the outside world (indeed to anyone OUTSIDE of the Master/slave relationship) it can look to all intents and purposes that the D type is shaping, micro managing and so forth, that training, that 'doing for' that 'giving time' to the submissive is exactly that. A slave is born not created. I will stand by that statement all of my life. A slave does not need training. A slave does not require anything. A slave exists to serve, to do for her/his Master. It is an ascribed status. A slave might at anythime also be commanded to be a submissive but that is to do with the Dominant's evolution towards their essential mastery. I hope this makes sense as it does to me.
You say dear crouchingtigress that this relationship has not changed your slave's heart not does it break your sacred contract. I understand. A slave comes already perfected as such and asks for nothing. I'm going to repeat that and I really hope a Master reads this and understands. A slave asks for nothing. S'he does not ask for peas to be counted, or to be micromanaged. I quoted examples from the literary and ideological world because I truly feel a kinship with those Mrs Freud's, those Mrs Pearls and so on; women who asked for nothing not even a place in history. But I know in my heart that humanity and the great ideals that their men propounded would not have shaped humanity were it not for the daily service of the slave mindsets who serviced them.
A slave may also look as though s'he is free. But there are invisible and sacred manacles and chains that can never ever be broken.
He will not have to learn this your sacred partnet, but he will come to understand it.
True deepest blessings and I'll get down off my box....but I'm still waving at you ok?

what i am hearing is that a slave does not need training, and i think in some ways you are right. that is not to say she or he does not love training...*grin*

training is a time for a slave to watch the owner and learn what really make him happy, something slaves really like.....and training is a way to have the owners full undevided attention, another thing slaves really like. So i although maybe slaves dont need training persay i think it is incredibly valuable for bonding to occur and i think its part of slavery that is really fun too.

i think that although slaves might not need training, it think the owners need to train, because they are the one that are setting the culture of home space, when i get a new employee we go over basic training because although i dont have a mico managment style i find it important to set my work culture and lay down the rules as the CEO, and ithink my "elves" some service hearted, and some not at all, really appreciate that because it defines they role and my expectations of them.

but all that does not apply in my case. for me, my time with slavery was an important aspect of my growth, but i do not identify as a slave as i have come to understand the word.

i often refer to my years as a slave as like climbing mount everast, it was excruciatingly hard, death defying at times, but i had to do it, because it was there. and just like mt everast there is no need to go back there and repeat it.

i dont call myself a slave, nor do i call myself a submissive, i dont want a master nor an owner, i have been through each of these roles and each offers different things and yet i am always seeking something new.

we came up with the word service slut, and although other folks are starting to use the word, because there is a need for such a word, we defined what it means for us, (which i would be happy to explain if asked ) and what that meant was that i can be in a service based relationship and still feed my slave heart, but that i did not need the typical managing of a s type.

one of the things i love about the lifestyle is that you can create any roles that feed you...all you have to know is what nourishes your soul.

i am like the hedonistic god bacchus when it comes to bdsm, i love everything, i am poly, bi and a switch...i love SM, Ds and TLC...i love lots of people and love being allowed to love lots of people......i love to sit at the banquet and just feast...

my favorite moment in my service had to be at a party myself and lee were kissing our freind bloodtiger, and she has the most amazing lips, and i was getting so lost in them...

bloodtiger looked up at lee and said
"tell me when i have to stop kissing your slut"
and Lee looked down at her and said
"you never have to stop kissing her, that is why she is My sluuuut."

yum.

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 8:24:14 AM

Huntertn

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Vent it all out...thats a girl....Even in business deals when I say I don't give a shit who gets the credit as long as the job gets done people think I'm crazy...lettem talk..I guess some just see their world as well..like a horse in blinders..only straight ahead..sometimes they mean well enough,like trying to fram their thoughts in ways they think you think..only to find out your blinders are off for good. Just be nice and say thank you..after all, as long as You and He knows..really..isn't that enough?

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 2:42:05 PM

hermione83

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Lumus, I agree with what you said completely. And, Kevin, Jesus was not a lawful good. He very much could become justly angry, and break man law that was an interpretation of the law that He wrote on all of our heart's to begin with. He knew the meaning of the law, as it was His, and breaking the ethical code of of the Pharisees was not breaking His own law. And I think you missed how Jesus was more than a martyr, but also, that while some martyrs certainly do bad things, others sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Perhaps it seems crazy to you, but you are certainly free today because of the same sacrifices given by men no different than yourself in the past. And Jesus' was much more than that. If you noticed earlier, I told you about morals and ethics before I copies some D&D text that agreed with me. The point was not the text, but a good explanation. I was more using D&D as an easy illustration as a more 2D example into the 3D example of life. I do not at all use a game to define my life or what I do. I do realize people do this. I find more the opposite... D&D is a fantasy game that explains a few small parts of life with easy labels. That's all. As for ethics... though they are often used in different ways, and refer to similar concepts, they really have less to do with each other. An ethical person shows great prudence in all things. A moral person always does what's right, no matter what code of conduct or law that may violate, as one's morals are defined basically by their conscience and not by society. An ethical person may be angered and think the moral person who stands against a law is thoroughly wrong. The moral person may thing the ethical person is very wrong by living their lives by a prescribed code and not questioning it's truth or goodness... It's simple...

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RE: no one is counting my peas. - 6/29/2008 2:59:24 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

NO one told me how many peas I was allowed to eat!

I think that the difference, for me, in your situation and some other situations is that you weren't waiting around for a Dominant to help you get your life together -- you knew where to start, and dug in there, and did the work... and you're right, you deserve full credit for that. What I've found as a dominant female, though, is that many of the people that we work with are having a hard time finding out how and where to start -- even if they can see what the key issues are, they're completely overwhelmed by the idea of taking those issues on by themselves and -that- is why, I think, so many people assume that if someone is in a D/s relationship, they must be under the control/guidance/direction of their dominant in taking care of their key issues. You're very fortunate to be self motivated. Most people aren't... so when they see someone who has made great strides, they immediately look for someone who has "pulled the strings". If it isn't your dominant, there are folks who will ascribe your success to God, or your psychotherapist, or your parents (or spouse) or even to things like having kids.

The truth is, it's a hell of a lot of work to get our lives together. For some, it is a lifelong struggle. For the ones who take that struggle on themselves, they deserve a whole bucket of "Go YOU!'s"...

And just a small note to those who aren't internally motivated and -do- need help... help is out there, so don't be ashamed/afraid to go looking for it, whether its from a dominant, a church, a support group, or a spouse (just PLEASE don't lean on your kids -- they don't have the experience to deal with a lifetime of issues -- find one of the other great resources that are out there!) I'd much rather have someone who needs a team seek out what xhe needs than to continue to struggle on hir own and feel beaten down by hir life.

Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/29/2008 3:01:09 PM >

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