RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit..

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AquaticSub -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:03:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl How many people get involved in situations where 'the lifestyle' is used as a justification for stupidity, incompetance, malignance and abuse by one party or the other? And while I feel bad for what happened to people, I don't think someone abusing a term means that all of us who do feel the term applies to us have to stop. Nor does someone using the term weave some sort of magic spell that prevents others from using their own good judgement. "BDSM lifestyle" is no more powerful than "true", "real", or even "sincere", and "obedient". Getting rid of one term will not stop assholes from saying "If you were sincere about submitting to me" or "If you were really obedient, you'd do this/forgive that/never say this/overlook that/etc." Those who are inclined to fall into those traps will and hopefully nothing serious will happen before they figure it out. How many people claim to be masters or dominants but are just abusive nuts? We've all read the horror stories but I don't think there will be a huge push to end using those terms. Some people dislike them for personal reasons, but others embrace them.

MzMia -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:04:50 AM)
I am seeing a lot of judgement going on here. That is why I love this thread. It is making some of us uncomfortable. booo hooo Stella is free to write and express herself. Some may agree with it, some may not agree with it, some may like it, some may not like it, some may "get" it, some may not "get" it. The point is, people in this "lifestyle" have a right to say things that you may or may not like and may or may not agree with, and may or may not "get". Does saying things that people "don't like", "don't agree with" or "don't get", mean so much? Why? Is it because most of us truth be told, are not understanding to divergent opinions. [:D] I predict this thread will go 30 pages.

MsValentine -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:08:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I can't speak on Stella's behalf... but I will anyway lol. The humour is all in the writing style, in the characters, and in the exaggerations she peppered her post with: the underlying motivation seems to be earnest - she doesn't believe in a 'lifestyle', like many other posters, incidentally - but she decided to put it in such a way that her ranting has a comedic quality. Humour's suggestive, and what makes one person laugh will irritate an other... c'est la vie! I see...much ado about nothing.

MzMia -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:10:04 AM)
I agree but as a famous person once said. .....many here doth protest too much.

solia -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:13:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Excellent piece stella - and your new pic rocks! But as all good pieces of writing, it went over some peoples heads and they come in being what they don't get.[;)] Ah - I love the smell of irony. the.dark. Well I guess that makes me one of those less than bright people that don't get it and I must also be one of those that come in being what I don't get. I have no problem with irony but it should have been posted in Off-Topic if that was her point. Apparently I'm not in the Stella-loop and actually, foolishly took it at face value. So very silly of me, I should be ashamed of myself. But I'm not. All she had to do was indicate that it was not to be taken as she wrote it then those of us that replied as if it were a genuine post wouldn't be shelved under 'those that just don't get it because they are exactly what she is talking about'. camille, As you stated before, you've not experienced the kinds of things the op wrote about. There are many who have not and that's wonderful! It's like me talking with a friend about the differences between our dads. Mine sucked, her's was the best the world could produce. Neither of us can comprehend the other's experience because we lacked our own experience of the opposite. Whether the op wrote from personal experience or from the hearing of others' experiences is not important. There are two sides to everything: negative and positive. The op's writing is, if no more than this, a refreshing reminder that there is an ugly, negative side. If a reader hasn't experienced the ugly, negative side, be thankful and appreciative of what you do have. Now that a reader has a look into the other side, be supportive, a bit more empathetic and not so quick to dismiss the possibility of an opposite experience of your own. If a reader sees themselves in this writing, take it as a sign that it's time to better yourself.

ownedgirlie -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub And while I feel bad for what happened to people, I don't think someone abusing a term means that all of us who do feel the term applies to us have to stop. Nor does someone using the term weave some sort of magic spell that prevents others from using their own good judgement. "BDSM lifestyle" is no more powerful than "true", "real", or even "sincere", and "obedient". Hi Aquatic, You bring up a point that made me consider something. For all the folks here who mock the terms "real" and "true" (weal and twue), I wonder why it seems so unacceptable for folks to disparage the term "BDSM lifestyle?" I have some fascination with this thread due to the reactions to it. While I saw the OP as satyrical, I can see where some took it seriously. What I find fascinating is the reactions to seeing "BDSM lifestyle" offended. That's neither good nor bad, just very interesting to me.

RCdc -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub BTW, dark, I am also in the camp who apologizes when something nasty happens to someone. Maybe it's a culture difference but I do feel actually sorry that something bad happened to them. It's not fake in the slightest. Since it isn't my fault I don't feel guilty or remorseful, but I can be sorry. While I don't live by Mr. Webster, he does say that sorry also includes "mournful, sad" which I feel applies. Hi Aqua I don't believe it is a cultural difference because its no something unusual to say 'I'm sorry' even here. I just don't get it, like it, or appriciate the sentiment on a personal level. Like I said before, it's false to me and even if it is a mournful or sad kind of response, it's insincere unless you know me and have some kind of rapport with me. It also removes the importance of the word 'sorry' for me, where the context and intention is lost and wasted when overused. the.dark.

LaTigresse -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:23:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I agree but as a famous person once said. .....many here doth protest too much. Yes, but it is good entertainment.[:D]

gypsygrl -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:23:53 AM)
quote: And while I feel bad for what happened to people, I don't think someone abusing a term means that all of us who do feel the term applies to us have to stop. Nor does someone using the term weave some sort of magic spell that prevents others from using their own good judgement When I first posted to this thread, I didn't take a position on the implied thesis of the op. I was impressed by the writing. I've been beaten over the head by the term 'lifestlye' and I've been told I was never gonna make it 'in this lifestyle' mostly because I have a low tolerance for abuse. Its not my kink. But, I still use the term. It serves a purpose. At the same time, it bears remembering that its just a word with an unclear conceptual reference. We tend to know what we mean when we use it though, if looked at too closely, that meaning tends to disintegrate. Maybe, for those of us who still use the word, the thing that can be gotten from stella's post, is that 'the lifestyle' includes a range of experiences--good, bad, and indifferent.

AquaticSub -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:24:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Hi Aquatic, You bring up a point that made me consider something. For all the folks here who mock the terms "real" and "true" (weal and twue), I wonder why it seems so unacceptable for folks to disparage the term "BDSM lifestyle?" I have some fascination with this thread due to the reactions to it. While I saw the OP as satyrical, I can see where some took it seriously. What I find fascinating is the reactions to seeing "BDSM lifestyle" offended. That's neither good nor bad, just very interesting to me. Personally, it's because I seldom see someone use the term "BDSM lifestyle" to put someone else down. I actually don't believe I ever have whereas I've only ever seen the terms "real" and "true" used to draw a line between what is good (people like them) and bad (those who weren't like them). My first strong reaction came from taking the OP quite seriously - now it's simply another discussion of terms. For the record: I have no problem with people not liking the term, or even hating it. I know from various encounters dark's opinion on the matter and still think quite well of her and enjoy our run-ins, as I do many others who disagree with me on this particular issue. What I was attempting to point out is that ridding the "community", "lifestyle", insert whatever term you like here of the phrase isn't going to stop, or even affect, the number of people being deceived or conned into something.

kittinSol -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:25:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie For all the folks here who mock the terms "real" and "true" (weal and twue), I wonder why it seems so unacceptable for folks to disparage the term "BDSM lifestyle?" Bingo.

AquaticSub -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:26:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl But, I still use the term. It serves a purpose. At the same time, it bears remembering that its just a word with an unclear conceptual reference. We tend to know what we mean when we use it though, if looked at too closely, that meaning tends to disintegrate. That I can fully agree with. [:)]

Alumbrado -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:29:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Personally, it's because I seldom see someone use the term "BDSM lifestyle" to put someone else down. I actually don't believe I ever have whereas I've only ever seen the terms "real" and "true" used to draw a line between what is good (people like them) and bad (those who weren't like them). My first strong reaction came from taking the OP quite seriously - now it's simply another discussion of terms. For the record: I have no problem with people not liking the term, or even hating it. I know from various encounters dark's opinion on the matter and still think quite well of her and enjoy our run-ins, as I do many others who disagree with me on this particular issue. What I was attempting to point out is that ridding the "community", "lifestyle", insert whatever term you like here of the phrase isn't going to stop, or even affect, the number of people being deceived or conned into something. Very good point... the potential for harm in dogmatically declaring something to be 'twue' exists on several levels. OTOH, people agreeing to call something by a convenient term, such as 'WIITWD', or 'BDSM', or an 'alternative lifestyle' sometimes draws outrage and defensiveness so out of proportion to how innocuous it is, that I often wonder what is really being defended.... or attacked.

AquaticSub -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:37:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado OTOH, people agreeing to call something by a convenient term, such as 'WIITWD', or 'BDSM', or an 'alternative lifestyle' sometimes draws outrage and defensiveness so out of proprtion to how innocuous it is, that I often wonder what is really being defended. Not to mention getting this insert your favorite term here to agree on anything, let alone terminology, is bit like putting toothpaste back into the tube with a toothpick. [:D]

ownedgirlie -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:39:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Personally, it's because I seldom see someone use the term "BDSM lifestyle" to put someone else down. I actually don't believe I ever have whereas I've only ever seen the terms "real" and "true" used to draw a line between what is good (people like them) and bad (those who weren't like them). My first strong reaction came from taking the OP quite seriously - now it's simply another discussion of terms. The difference I saw between Stella's OP (satyre) and the insults of "weal and twue" is that satyre typically pokes unharmful fun at a generic group of people or concept and insults tends to be aimed at people at a more personal level. I bet Stella would find a satyre about thespians as amusing as a satyre about BDSM folks. My cousin directed and starred in a play in San Francisco, called "For Whom the Bridge Tolls", which was a satyrical comedy on the lives of San Franciscans. It hilariously poked fun toward an audience who laughed their asses off, without personally insulting everyone. quote: For the record: I have no problem with people not liking the term, or even hating it. I know from various encounters dark's opinion on the matter and still think quite well of her and enjoy our run-ins, as I do many others who disagree with me on this particular issue. What I was attempting to point out is that ridding the "community", "lifestyle", insert whatever term you like here of the phrase isn't going to stop, or even affect, the number of people being deceived or conned into something. I understand. Although I didn't think the OP was trying to rid the phrase. I agree with you, though, and think ridding the "community" of real and true isn't going to change ill intended attitudes, either. I always love conversing with you here, Aquatic. Thanks for sharing some brain juice. [:)]

ownedgirlie -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:41:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Not to mention getting this insert your favorite term here to agree on anything, let alone terminology, is bit like putting toothpaste back into the tube with a toothpick. [:D] Ack. Now that sounds like a horrible punishment idea!! [&:]

phoenixrising43 -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:45:07 AM)
Oh man...I laughed my butt off over this post. So funny. Thanks!

RCdc -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:53:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Personally, it's because I seldom see someone use the term "BDSM lifestyle" to put someone else down. I actually don't believe I ever have whereas I've only ever seen the terms "real" and "true" used to draw a line between what is good (people like them) and bad (those who weren't like them). My first strong reaction came from taking the OP quite seriously - now it's simply another discussion of terms. For the record: I have no problem with people not liking the term, or even hating it. I know from various encounters dark's opinion on the matter and still think quite well of her and enjoy our run-ins, as I do many others who disagree with me on this particular issue. What I was attempting to point out is that ridding the "community", "lifestyle", insert whatever term you like here of the phrase isn't going to stop, or even affect, the number of people being deceived or conned into something. [sm=agree.gif] - I know Aqua and I don't always agree but it's great to be able to discuss the differences. I believe that trying to get rid of any term is pretty pointless and counter productive and only does what it sets out what it says on the tin in the end. And also, like the perpetual slave/submissive, true/real, whyamivanilla debates this one will be turned around again and again. It's good that people state their POV - it's just crass and nauseating when the issue becomes less about the issue and more about the possible negative reason behind why it's posted, or the poster themselves. But when icons are put in the spotlight and questioned, even if the sterotype is ridiculed, but not the icon itself, people don't like their bubbles burst. the.dark.

AquaticSub -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:55:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I understand. Although I didn't think the OP was trying to rid the phrase. I agree with you, though, and think ridding the "community" of real and true isn't going to change ill intended attitudes, either. I always love conversing with you here, Aquatic. Thanks for sharing some brain juice. [:)] It wouldn't. And I'd have nowhere to share my oh-so-clever "weal mastah" jokes. [:D] Edited cause I haven't had my coffee yet (and it's 3 PM!): And as always, you are most welcome. It's been an interesting discussion. Now to just keep Valyraen from seeing the toothpaste and toothpick idea...

Alumbrado -> RE: The BDSM lifestyle is just a pile of bullshit.. (6/30/2008 11:58:10 AM)
quote: it's just crass and nauseating when the issue becomes less about the issue and more about the possible negative reason behind why it's posted, or the poster themselves. But when icons are put in the spotlight and questioned, even if the sterotype is ridiculed, but not the icon itself, people don't like their bubbles burst. How is declaring it crass and nauseating to dare question posters or their reasons for posting, not making them into icons?[:D]

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