RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage of the naive?

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RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 7:49:21 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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There are also a lot of *private* people who can teach you things if you hook up with them. I chuckle a bit at the ten percent of the "public" perverts who totally discount the 90 percent of the iceberg still lurking out there-who will never go to a playspace-a workshop-or a bdsm event.

But who are EVERY bit as competent as they are.

_____________________________

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to katie978)

Post #: 21

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 10:03:19 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I did not have a trainer per say he was a mentor and he taught me a lot. One thing her refused to do was have sex with me he said you shuld save that for the Master you select. So he and his slave taught me very much. He would have 100% approved of Master of course even if he was still alive he let me make my own choice.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 22

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 10:08:57 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I see trainers as vital - but then I believe you have to define trainer.
Mentors or people who tak people on the 'train' then in the art of submission - no.
Training to learn and enhance skills? I think they rock and can be a great asset.

But many pople enter these arrangements without setting out boundaries or think that one person can teach all skills in the same capacity and strength. They cannot.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to katie978)

Post #: 23

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 2:42:47 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

quote:

He doesn't find it weird or disturbing that she lacks the ability to choose her own partners?

Thank you, camille and aquatic, for you answers, which were spot on.
The only thing I would add, aqautic, is, not everyone lives in an area with a wide aray of communicty outlets to choose from. I have lived in bigger cities, with a former Master, where we could easily have attended a differant munch every night of the month. There was a local dungeon, and we were members. In other words, thriving active lifestyle.
now i belong to a differant man. A wonderful man. And I live in little house on the prarie land.
We drive almost 2 hours to go to our monthly munch. We are the fartherest away geographical members of that group, to the south, anyway. The groups leader is about as far away as we are, to the north. This means that this weekend, when we attended a party at their house, we drove 4 hours to attend.
Most of the group members hold a couple of parties a year. They announce them a few months in advance. Invitations almost always include 'You are welcome to camp out on our floor. bring you sleeping bags. Breakfast will be served in the morning.'
She did not so much 'select' a group which she feels is a perfect match for her personality - it may be, it might not be, i don't know, i never asked her. She is attending the only local group available to her. This is a big country, a lot of people accept the social group near them.
There are, actually other groups nearer to us, although none terribly near, but this group is made up mostly of MDom/fsub Ms relationships, so it is a good match for us. But for my sister? I don't know. She is transportation challenged. The group is very local to her (she is right there in town, not like us - it is a 20 min ride for her. On months that we can not pick her up, someone usually can.) This group has a membership process she must go through - just as we did. A lot of people don't care for that, either. But, as i said, for my sister - it is the only group local to her.

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“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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Post #: 24

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 4:43:55 PM

Aynne

Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
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Exactly Katy. Silly silly notion.

Training Dominants are to submissives/slaves what a Training Bra is to breasts. They are coming anyway and training them makes not one bit of difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

When someone can explain to me how one person can train you for another I will believe that trainers have a useful purpose.

_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 25

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 5:16:44 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

When someone can explain to me how one person can train you for another I will believe that trainers have a useful purpose.

When I was hitting puberty the point of a training bra was to get me used to putting one on and wearing one every day before I actually needed it. Which probably not every girl needs but since bras drove me bonkers at first, they were actually useful to me. So... by my experience that analogy actually argues in favors of trainers - that way, if I wanted to, I could get used to certain things before I did it for real, ie. with a partner I cared about.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Aynne)

Post #: 26

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 5:21:40 PM

Aynne

Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
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AquaticSub,

I am certain that for some it may suit a purpose. My issue with this "training" thing is perhaps some younger or more easily impressionable women may not be able to differentiate a good mentor vs. someone looking to abuse yoou and have some casual random sex. Which in itself may be fine too, just be upfront about it and don't hide behind the guise of training. I met one or two of "those guys" early on and thankfully I did not stick around.

_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 27

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 5:59:09 PM

silkncarol

Posts: 318
Status: offline

I think it depends on what you want to be trained in. Years ago i wished to learn manners and protocol so i found a Dominant who was strong in that area and approached him to mentor me. He accepted, and for a year i was considered part of his Family. I learned much from that time with him, but also from the association with his collared submissives.
I do believe each Dominant "trains" his own submissive/slave, and you might get an overview from a "Trainer" but it will all change when you find your Owner....

_____________________________

We attract hearts by the qualities we display. We retain them by the qualities we possess.

Shoes can change your life................. Cinderella

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 28

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 6:12:01 PM

katie978

Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I wish you people would quit seeing subs and newbies as 'delicate flowers we need to protect." They were full grown adults capable of making thier own decisions long BEFORE they got involved in kink.

I'm quite aware of this, having at no point been a delicate flower. To be honest, I tend to lean towards a Darwinistic attitude: if a stupid sub is carelessly picking around the lifestyle and gets hurt and leaves; well, one less stupid person 'round here. However, there had been a rash of threads regarding the bad types of trainers and I had rarely previously heard about any good ones.
I certainly wasn't implying that all trainers are bad. There seems to be enough examples just in this thread to prove that: though, of course, the kind of jerk "trainers" that people need to watch out for usually don't stick up for themselves.

_____________________________

"That's the plan. Rule the world. You and me. Anyday ::wink::"

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 29

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 6:17:15 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: katie978
though, of course, the kind of jerk "trainers" that people need to watch out for usually don't stick up for themselves.

I do too!!!!!

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to katie978)

Post #: 30

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 6:52:35 PM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

I will believe that training is nonsense until some young nymph asks me to train her.

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"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

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Post #: 31

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 8:30:33 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

AquaticSub,

I am certain that for some it may suit a purpose. My issue with this "training" thing is perhaps some younger or more easily impressionable women may not be able to differentiate a good mentor vs. someone looking to abuse yoou and have some casual random sex. Which in itself may be fine too, just be upfront about it and don't hide behind the guise of training. I met one or two of "those guys" early on and thankfully I did not stick around.

I don't doubt for a second that it happens. I also don't doubt that more experienced and wiser women are also taken in sometimes. However, I don't believe that this is cause to dismiss the entire concept. No matter what the guise, people will be suckered. Hopefully they will learn without getting too hurt.

Some will use the concept of love to get laid. It doesn't mean that everyone who professes to love is a liar.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Aynne)

Post #: 32

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 9:01:44 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

...... Hugs Perve!

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

I will believe that training is nonsense until some young nymph asks me to train her.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 33

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 9:04:48 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

Actually this is pretty much what happened to me - minus the fucking with my mind (except in the fun way of course) and the fact i'm no spring chicken. He trains because that's the agreement he and his vanilla wife have not because he thinks/knows he can't keep a young slave.

I learned more in one month than i could ever have hoped to learn in a year on my own, including how to spot the fakes. Provided that the Dominant/Master is on the up and up, i think finding someone for training is a very valuable thing to do.

I look back on that time with great fondness, it was an entirely positive experience, and i can't recommend it enough. Just be careful who you choose.

phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to katie978)

Post #: 34

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 10:53:30 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

Just be careful who you choose.

phoenix

Yea, I agree. There's a lot of Doms that aren't as skilled, yet would welcome a submissive, and if that submissive accepts and gets hurt, it's the submissive's fault for choosing a crappy Dom. There's nothing like laziness and lack of patience in a Dom, that will screw over any BDSM relationship. I think the fakes don't know how to handle the glass vase of submission and don't appreciate the amount of trust that a submissive has to invest in submitting.

Those fake Doms will then continue to troll for a submissive, rather than bother with wondering what happened (what did they do) to all those submissives they burned (as it might harm their fragile ego as a dominant)...and continue to focus on and think of the subs as being at fault for choosing to let him to dominate. I wonder why they never look at why the submissive were burned. Perhaps those fake Doms are addicted to the temporary fling thing and convenience of intense play, and whatever happens to the trusting sub, just happens...*shrug* Weird... They're just thinking right now "bring on the next sub!"

I think the attitude and lack of recognizing and appreciating the intricacies of submission, are some red flags to recognize a fake. The fakes seem to treat BDSM play as something casual and focus only on the sub choosing and the sub taking responsibility for getting fucked over if they choose to allow play with the Dom and get hurt.

That's great that you have a trainer that taught you that skill in recognizing fake Doms. Wish you the best.

< Message edited by chickpea -- 6/30/2008 11:36:34 PM >

_____________________________

Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 35

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 11:17:10 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

Once upon a time, I had a Trainer. He was a wonderful man who carved out time to show me things that I probably would have never seen, not to mention, experienced. Mostly, what I took from that time was the differences in which dynamics are illustrated in public. I learned the pomp and circumstance of high protocol, and the relationship was never sexual if you ignore the inherent sexuality in some of the activities. At any rate, Iiken it to knowing which fork to use at a dinner party. I probably will never use most of it, but it's nice to know that I would be comfortable in a high protocol setting.

Anyway, just my two cents. And, I can take no credit for choosing wisely, I just lucked out.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to katie978)

Post #: 36

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 11:20:39 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

Hey chickpea,

One small correction.....had not have, my trainer and i aren't together anymore although we remain friends.

phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 37

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 6/30/2008 11:41:40 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

Hey chickpea,

One small correction.....had not have, my trainer and i aren't together anymore although we remain friends.

phoenix

Awws, my mistake. Well at least you're friends with him. Some guys are just great. They take pride in helping a girl out, not as a way to impress girls. I look to those with the utmost respect.

_____________________________

Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 38

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 7/1/2008 4:07:39 AM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

*grins* that's okay, chickpea, it's all good. I agree, it is good that my former training Master and i are still friends. IMO that's one of the differences between a true Master and a fake one. Of course the slave and the one who helps her out by showing her the way won't always remain or keep in touch, i just wanted to tell others that it is possible to receive training with a Master who is honest and honorable in his intentions.

phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to chickpea)

Post #: 39

RE: Training: Worthwhile or good way to take advantage ... - 7/1/2008 4:23:37 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

I am leaving the vulnerable newbie stuff aside ... because that debate rolls endlessly and is pointless ...

to training a submissive/slave.

If a Dominant wants things done in a particular way, then they should train their property to do it in that way. Some things will be common from Dominant to Dominant - some things will be more individual. Submissives shouldn't try to apply one set of rules to every Dom they ever have, and Doms shouldn't leave a sub guessing about how they want things done. Simple right? Every Dominant has the equipment to do this. They just might be hopeless at it. I have been trained by woeful trainers, I only ever learned anything because I decoded their appalling instructions. I have lso been trained by some excellent trainers ... and they involved me in the process rather than having me be a passive participant.

Serious training ... like the stuff that intends to reset the submissives viewpoint .. can be veiewed as brainwashing - or taking advantage. I have had some people comment that I am getting brainwashed, and in a way I am. DV and I are working through a training process that is breaking down my defences and resistance. All the areas of training -be it training me to deep throat by forcing me to vomit on His cock .. be it training me to take it in the ass, pushing the limits of what play I can take ... my opinions .. whatever the training opportunity is .. its about training me to let go of one thing... control. Control of whether I vomit or not, control of when a scene ends, control of my own opinions. He is training me to relinquish all control until I am a doormat to His desires. Now we think that is very worthwhile ... because that is where we both want me to be. In another relationship, it could be incredibly unhealthy - it could easily become desrtuctive and abusive.

< Message edited by softness -- 7/1/2008 4:25:14 AM >

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veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 40

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