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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:17:59 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		nodsnods .. I dont have any limits protecting me .. so DarkVictory is *obviously* planning to saw off my leg with a spoon and have me roast it for His supper.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:28:45 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Hard limits, in my opinion, come in two varities.

Things that you find being Morally wrong such as the staples Children, Animals, Blood, Scat, etc.

And

Things that you just really really don't want to do and consider deal breakers if forced too.

The funny thing is that Limits usually aren't an issue if you and your partner have the same Moral codes.

Here is the part where limits and the BDSM world get bent in my opinion. See I may enjoy a certain act that my partner does not and I am going to use the example of Anal. Many of the women I have been with say they do not like anal, they say thier ass is exit only and that nothing is ever to go in there. My own wife is an example of this. It does happen to be my Favorite sexual activity and so when andi told me what she did if I believe it was a Hard Limit the way that she BELIVED it was a hard limit then our relationship would have been short lived. You see with andi, as was the case with most other women, she had been hurt having it when a guy thrust his unlubricated cock into her asshole without warning and well yes that hurts a lot, so Anal was in fact a HARD LIMIT with them at first. Once we had established a relationship and started exploring each other I would often take time in doing very light anal play and eventually moving up to small anal insertion. Today andi asks for it on occasion, and I stand by my record that I have YET to have a woman NOT enjoy it and consider doing it again afterward.

The Point in that rather Vivid explanation of mine is this some Limits serve no purpose bit Fear and I am not going to allow fear to alter my abilities with my slave.

Yes I understand the whole idea of no limits as being controversial but let me explain. There are things that I do not like and so I will not do, if they want each and every one of those things can be a HARD LIMIT all they want but there are things that I know I enjoy and if a submissive says that they are a HARD LIMIT or a LIMIT at all I tend to take note of them and introduce them too them slowly and over time to allow them to adjust to them. Oddly enough I have yet to be with a girl who's limits both Hard and Otherwise did not change after being with me a short period of time.

In some cases Limits are a form of exerting control over a Dom in that a sub will say you can have all of me ..... except for this and this and as with anything else we tend to want what we are told that we cannot have.

As to your question Do you HAVE to give them up? No not at all there is no right in this country for someone to MAKE you do something you do not want to do, as with all things in BDSM you are doing it because you want to not because you have no choice because calling the police and leaving are always a choice the main question is .... Is it worth Leaving over just to Not have to do somthing you might find you like with this particular partner?

Now if these are just Limits for Playing with Random Partners then I have found Limits are a good way for a Bottom to get what the want out a scene and be sure not to have to get what they don't beyond that I tend to find Limits worthless.

Steel

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:29:39 PM   
LadyRainfire


Posts: 6040
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

<snipped for brevity>

I don't have any limits with my Owner I place none on Sir because I don't need to. I trust Him and He has earned that trust again and again and again. I don't need to put up a brick wall with a danger sign saying "This far and no further" ... because Sir knows me, knows my previous experiences, knows my weaknesses and fear and desires, He also knows the fall out that would occur and is responsible enough to continue and deal with the consequences. <snipped again, sorry, softness> With my Owner I have no such limit. He *knows* all the history, He knows how I will react and He knows there will be consequences to deal with if He uses them, I am in His power, if He wants to invoke all that (cos yanno me gibbering with fear is hot for Him) then He will, and I will submit to that.

<another snip>

Limits are about control. With my Owner I need no control, I dont want any control, I trust Him to have all the control, all the power, all the time. I don't need limits because He is a trustworthy responsible Owner, who values His property.


Ok, so I was getting ready to write this whole long thing and then read your post, softness..... Dammit, I can't say it better, or maybe even differently. This is so damned spot on!

There are limits but they were discussed beforehand. I knew that I could trust Lumus with my life (and I do or I wouldn't be here living with Him now) and it's accepted between us that I don't have to sit here going on and on about hard limits because of that trust. He knows me, knows what I can do, what I can't do, won't do and where He can push, and maybe more importantly, where not to push. I've already had 2 supposedly major limits fall to dust since being with Lumus, that fell at His instruction and guidance and my willingness to explore further, rather than being forced. They were my decision to drop, after I learned more and talked with Him.

Now about those buffalo and a chainsaw.....


_____________________________

"Desire is an insatiable beast. Sample your strongest dreams, and you will only crave more." ~ Master

~ one half of "L&L"~

My current state of mind

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:33:00 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRainfire

Now about those buffalo and a chainsaw.....



grins ... sicko

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veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:33:44 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		My boys are both owned slaves. Fox has no real hard limits, simply becasue he trusts I would never do anything to him that would damage him in any way There are a few limits that have yet to be pushed, not becasue to do so would send him running and screaming, but becsue we simply havent found a time nor place for them yet. He does demand monogamy, but thats easy enough to do.
Angel, on the ohter hand, has several hard limits. One is sex. He is saving himself for the woman he will eventually marry. I knew this coming into the relationship, as did I know that woman was likely not going to be me. I accepted that and we have been hapily together for 2 years despite it. The second is pain. He simply cannot tolerate it. The way his nerves are wired, the impact of anything painful is far ore sidespread than average, and so we avoid it completely. Anotehr caveat I knew about when we got together.

Slaves and submissives are upfront about their limits from the getgo. You can either accept they will never change (as I did with Angel) or you can discuss having to give them up with the collar (like with Fox). Some work for some people and not for others, you need to now which will work for you and discuss it with a prospective Dominant. No one size fits al.

DV



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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
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*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:37:51 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?

Hard limits are a reality, not a right.  They exist regardless of the master's desire--and frequently regardless of the slave's desire as well.

Hard limits are those limits which crossing will harm rather than help.

Do I have the right to harm my slave?  Yes.  She is mine to use as I please.

A broken slave, however, is not pleasing.  I prefer the healthy, happy, and whole variety.



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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:37:57 PM   
LadyRainfire


Posts: 6040
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

grins ... sicko


  Thank you, but doesn't that come with the territory?   *winks*


_____________________________

"Desire is an insatiable beast. Sample your strongest dreams, and you will only crave more." ~ Master

~ one half of "L&L"~

My current state of mind

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:52:41 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for all the replies!  Keep them coming!  Though the message is clear, I want as many perspectives as possible.  Limits is to translate as I cannot do this because (and stated valid reasons for each).  I do not think making physical, moral, or mental/emotional issues known is usurping of anyone.  It is honest communication.  The point of the matter is, what will be done with this information.  Some will be handled differently than others, depending on the reason it exists.  I can accept that,  but which and how are some of my interests.  How has one come to drop something and how has one determined which to push and which to leave alone?  I realize I just expanded my fishing expedition, but I hope we can continue a discussion that I am finding most interesting.

Thanks again,
lovingpet 

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:52:52 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Limits are about control. With my Owner I need no control, I dont want any control, I trust Him to have all the control, all the power, all the time. I don't need limits because He is a trustworthy responsible Owner, who values His property.


But how many people do you believe actually will see this statement over the 'no limits' one?
Ya rock softness.
 
the.dark.

 
I'm actually really glad softness posted that because it presents a different perspective of looking at it.
 
I, unfortanely, will continue and always continue to look at it from the perspective of a dominant.
 
That perspective is that the issue of disrespecting hard limits is simply ludicrous, because if I disrespect a girl's hard limit, then I am, by my definition, harming her. And if I am consicously harming her, then I am, by my definition, a fucking bastard.
 
So to me....the issue of disrespecting hard limits is a silly one or matter of fact, that any dominant can disrespect someone's hard limits and still expect to have a healthy and successful relationship.
 
I thought I would restate that before people who didn't bother to understand the point of my post began blowing the intolerance horn.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 7/3/2008 3:54:04 PM >

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:03:04 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
How has one come to drop something and how has one determined which to push and which to leave alone? 


There is no simple answer to that question, because it's completely subjective to the individiual. It just comes down to taking time to get to know and understand the person, listening to what the person is saying as opposed to what you want to hear, making good judgement calls, taking responsibility for mistakes, and most importantly, genuinely and sincerely caring about the well being of the person under you over your own desires.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:04:16 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?  From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?  This may seem like a no brainer, or perhaps is much more complex than it seems.  There has been recent discussion that a slave gives up all in service, and that Master/Mistress takes up the responsibility of breaking those limits to the slave's betterment.  I do not know what my opinion is on the matter, but wanted to evoke discussion.  I will be happy to elaborate on the dynamic as far as I know it, but will not discuss what limits are involved. 

Thanks in advance for all the responses!  Please keep it positive and keep it fun! 

Best Regards,
lovingpet

Limits are whatever is in the contract. Contract is agreed between slave/owner. Contract can be written, witnessed or not. contract can be erbally agreed. Contract can be considered a spritual bond for life or for an agreed period of time. contract can be stated in purely behaviourial terms as a life contract or for an agreed period of time. Contract can be re-negotiated after an agreed period of time.
Terms of settlement, freedom, procurement, exchange or loaning can or may not be included in contract.
Master/slave relationships might or might not have a contract and therefore owner and property status is agreed entirely upon a subjective basis.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/3/2008 4:05:43 PM >

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:19:15 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		FR
 
Some say there are no limits in their relationship, because they trust that the dominant will not do certain things.
 
That doesn't mean there aren't limits, just that it isn't necessary to "put them on the table", so to speak.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:24:28 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well said Level.

And it's not an Ms thing.  I can say I have no limits with my partner because if there were anything he needed that I could provide, it would be done, as quickly as I could do it.  That's just how we are.  And my nephew.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:29:57 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?  From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?  This may seem like a no brainer, or perhaps is much more complex than it seems.  There has been recent discussion that a slave gives up all in service, and that Master/Mistress takes up the responsibility of breaking those limits to the slave's betterment.  I do not know what my opinion is on the matter, but wanted to evoke discussion.  I will be happy to elaborate on the dynamic as far as I know it, but will not discuss what limits are involved. 

Thanks in advance for all the responses!  Please keep it positive and keep it fun! 

Best Regards,
lovingpet


Instead of always thinking about it in terms of limits, what I find more helpful is to just think of trying to always make sure I'm able to give my owner whatever he wants. Its not always easy, and sometimes it takes me quite a bit of time, and I'm not always perfect at it but I strive to make sure that I do what he wants. That has included things that I considered a "hard limit" and its also included things I considered a "soft limit" but its mainly included things that I either never considered, begged him for, and things I have always loved doing.

I think concepts like the minute you become someone's slave you renege all limits and instantly they take all responsibility for you to be very simplistic and not really encompassing the reality (at least for me) that enslavement is a path that evolves, unfolds, and develops over time.

C~

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:41:32 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		We do not use the term 'hard limits'. My understanding of hard limits is something that is harmful either physically, emotionally or mentally.

To use the terms of the OP, I have given him the authority to decide what my hard limits will be or the authorty to decide what is or is not harmful to me.  Through his knowledge of me that is gained through conversation and experience, he decides what aspects he will limit himself in regards to play with me. 

Truthfully, there are not many things on the list that he is interested in doing, but he thinks would be harmful to do with me.  There are a couple things that he is going slowly with, but he will get there when he thinks we are both ready. 

Knight's Kyra 

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 4:58:32 PM   
scarlettjinx


Posts: 117
Joined: 3/14/2008
Status: offline 		My only hard limit is the cleaning of the litter box and cat room. Beat me, cut me, rape me with a splintered baseball bat, just don't make me clean up after his nasty cat.
That being said, I know Papa will never do things to me that will harm me or put my health and well being in danger. Mostly because I have the more sadistic imagination of the two of us, and the things I have asked him not to do usually are met with a reply such as 'that is the most disturbing/disgusting/sick/illegal thing I have ever heard. Where do you come up with this stuff, Jinx?'
And he respects my litter box limit because his cat is the nastier of the two cats, so he sees it as his responsibility.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 5:06:27 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?  From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?  This may seem like a no brainer, or perhaps is much more complex than it seems.  There has been recent discussion that a slave gives up all in service, and that Master/Mistress takes up the responsibility of breaking those limits to the slave's betterment.  I do not know what my opinion is on the matter, but wanted to evoke discussion.  I will be happy to elaborate on the dynamic as far as I know it, but will not discuss what limits are involved. 

Thanks in advance for all the responses!  Please keep it positive and keep it fun! 

Best Regards,
lovingpet

Wish I could answer this but I have never had limits in the sense that you mean. Instead, I relied on my knowledge, trust, and respect of the person I was with.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 5:11:38 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		The answer to this depends on the relationship. All of this is typically negotiated before a collar is even discussed. In our household, hard limits are respected. Heck, I have hard limits of my own. That's why I specifically look for servants whose limits are compatible with what I want.

I would say that there are occasions when a slave's limits might change over time, or where the Owner might find it necessary to at least work with a slave on expanding some limit, but in general, I think it works much more effectively to find common boundaries for things like hard limits.

Firestorm


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 6:53:45 PM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have no limits with my Master.  He has proven time and time again that not only does he care about me enough to not go certain places with me (past issues, phobias, etc...) but he has shown me such care and love that I have found myself asking for him to help me get over some of those fears.  Before asking him that, he gently pushed a couple of them, but only in a way to show me I had no reason to fear him in those areas.

On occasion, I have requested we not do something that I had previously called a limit, and he has always discussed those things with me and has not yet chosen to ignore my request at that time.  He takes good care of his property and because I trust that he will always do so, I am more than willing to venture into areas I once considered HARD limits.

With that said, Master has his own limits, and fortunately for me, those are things I would rather not ever have to contemplate exploring anyway. 

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 6:59:41 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?  From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?  This may seem like a no brainer, or perhaps is much more complex than it seems.  There has been recent discussion that a slave gives up all in service, and that Master/Mistress takes up the responsibility of breaking those limits to the slave's betterment.  I do not know what my opinion is on the matter, but wanted to evoke discussion.  I will be happy to elaborate on the dynamic as far as I know it, but will not discuss what limits are involved. 

Thanks in advance for all the responses!  Please keep it positive and keep it fun! 

Best Regards,
lovingpet


Depends on the relationship. If I agreed to slavery under the terms of keeping my limits, then he had better respect what he agreed to. If I agreed to slavery under the terms of no limits, then I'm going back on my word if I suddenly start throwing in limits. We personally do not believe in the concept of no limits for various reasons but mostly because there are things that, if aliens scrambled his brain, I simply wouldn't do nor would he want me to.

It works for some and for some it doesn't.

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