RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question.

RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (Full Version)

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kyraofMists -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 8:41:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 If the responsibility of the Top is to safeguard the bottom when coming down from the scene, then the Top needs to find out what will work best to achieve that result, not just to assume a certain action will magically achieve that result. But see, it is not just the top's responsibility. It is a joint responsibility. If the bottom knows that they need something specific after play then it is their responsibility to communicate this to the top. If the top knows they do not want to provide any sort of after care, then it is their responsibility to communicate this. Putting the sole responsibility for this on the top, just perpetuates the myth that submissives/slaves/bottoms are weak and cannot take care of themselves. If we are all adults here, then it is our own individual responsibility to make sure that we are going to get what we need out of our interactions with others. Knight's Kyra

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 8:51:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds i disagree and i'll even give an example of a dominant trying to give me after-care once that blew up in his face.... it was a normal day like any other day, and a normal flogging like any other flogging, however, during this particular flogging , unbeknownst to my dominant or to myself, i had gone into a very deep and very primal state, so when he proceeded to perform after-care i tore him apart like a wild animal; it took him about fourty minutes to wrestle me down; the results of which landed him and i at the emergency room with him being treated for deep bite wounds, severe, bloodied claw marks, and three stiches to his fore-head. i had bruises all over me that were obviously made by his hands restraining me. we had to tell them that i had been drinking and trying to get in the car to drive myself home and that his injuries were a result of him trying to prevent that from happening... needless to say, his attempt didn't strengthen our bond or our trust or some kind of grand poo ba intimacy or act of genuine domliness; it resulted in us not seeing or speaking to each other ever again. I blame this on failure of disclosure on the bottom's part. If a bottom knows that he or she doesn't like to be touched after play, I want to hear about it. I will tell you that, as a dominant, I would want to know that my property exhibited these kinds of tendencies up front, when we negotiated a scene. I'd want to be told "Oh, btw, I tend to go deep during subspace, and am violently reactive if touched afterwards'. Dominants are often very good at reading body language, but there is a measure of disclosure that is common sense. Not every bottoming situation requires aftercare, even with the same submissive individual involved -- but if aftercare is going to present a potential danger to either or both of us, I want to -know- about it, dammit. Calla Firestorm

Madame4a -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 8:52:21 AM)
Perfect... thank you for that!

RedMagic1 -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:09:08 AM)
The Top is responsible for welfare of both Top and bottom. The bottom is responsible for welfare of both bottom and Top. That adds up to more than 100% responsibility. The situation is then overdetermined for success. Assume nothing except responsibility.

Missokyst -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:22:05 AM)
I am starting to feel like I haven't played hard enough. I am not particularly fit, but I have been shackled day and night for 2 weeks, been beaten red and cut, had needles stuck in me, been shocked, prodded, pulled, weighted, but I have never been in any situation that caused me to be in so much distress that my partner had to be an EMT. I don't want to hijack this thread but now I am curious. It does seem like quite a few people require aftercare now I am curious about why. I love aftercare when I am with someone who matters to me. I liked it when my x brought me a drink of water, a candy, and held me as he put them up to my mouth. For me that was sweet, loving, tender, and in my eyes, helped him resolve his feelings enough to calm him down. My co-operation in being cared for was my part in letting him see that what he did was not bad. I have also played with men whose aim it was to hurt me. And I have played with casual people who meant nothing to me, who for me might as well have been a machine. For those people I just want to jump up.. sometimes gingerly, get dressed and go off and enjoy my energetic state. The thought of aftercare is more like a chore I might have to endure if it was insisted upon. <<shudder>> I tend to escape as soon as it is polite. I have never required aftercare because my senses were overwhelmed making me incapable of recovery. Don't get me wrong. I have had some bad cases of subdrop, but that tends to be hours, even days after an intense scene. But even then, unless I am involved romatically with the man, it has never been so bad that I was not ok without help. Have I missed out on something? Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: MistressSybella During a scene, a lot of trust is being placed in our hands and we make sure the submissive is ok. We check limbs for circulation after we've tied someone up. We don't leave someone we mummified alone but keep an eye on them. We listen to breathing, just in case that ball gag is too restrictive, and so on. However, the scene, and responsibility for another's care, doesn't end the second we put down the toys and untie the knots. If we are going to play, we have to be actively involved, to determine if aftercare is necessary and/or how much of what kind.

KnightofMists -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:29:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Draythos OK, I'll admit I'm a new Dom in the BDSM scene but, come on,after care is important. for some it is... for some it is not so important quote: It's been my experience, with the few play partners I've had (don't have aslave or sub yet, still recruiting), that, after care strenghtens the trust and emotional bond between the Dom and sub/slave. It has been my experience that this is only true if the individuals are on the same page of what aftercare is required if any. If their is a difference on what is required.... trust and emotional bonding is more likely to suffer and not strengthen. >>>> as a note... my experience has been gained by playing with many different bottoms and my own girls. quote: I, myself, practice after care like it's a religion. In my opinion, after care is just as, if not more, important than actual play, traing and/or punishment. I happen to think that Pre-Play is more important than aftercare or the play itself. Pre-play includes many things... like determining what aftercare is needed if any. quote: I'm going out on a limb here by saying; any Dom that does not practice after care is questionable at best. Our roles as Doms is to not only train and punish but, to care for our partners well-being so that, they will want to keep playing with us and comming back for more. Do you agree, disagree, I'd like to read your comments about this subject. "Our Roles as Doms"........ I find this amusing and alittle interesting as well. I always seen Dominance as a individual established to which other individual will resonate with. IE. my Domiannce inspires the submission of my two girls and happens to gain the respect of many others. It is not some role that is established by a community think tank. I do not seek to find what view as Dominant in the eyes of the community and seek to live up to that standard and as such live up to a "Role" of being a Dominate. My Dominance is established by me... There is No our roles. I find in general that many new and/or insecure individuals like to use terms such as "Our Role" They seek to join Dominants under one umbrella. Often times this is out of ignorance and/or lack of confidence in who they are as they begin their journey of a D/s lifestyle. Some never break away from this putting Dominants in a box. For in truth they can't stand alone in their own shell. The old saying.. united we stand, divided we fall. However, In the aspects of Dominace.... I just to stand alone... not because I am better or superior than all those in the box... but because I am me.. I am different.... just as other Dominants are different than me. If I am in a box with everyone else.. then a submissive only need to reach in and grab one... they are all the same in the box. But truth is as any submissive will tell you.. they are not all the same.. they are unique in their own right. Just as each submissive person is unique in their own right. It is the uniqueness of the individuals that is to me the most inspiring and beautiful thing of a human being. You may think it questionable for a Dom that doens't practice aftercare.... but then the questions is... what is aftercare in the first place. My version is simple.... "can you breath?.. here is some water... take a moment to get your energy back and then clean up the toys"..... So... if that is make me questionable... why is it I have two girls one that has been with me for over 20 years and the second that is over 3 years... and you are still recruiting. You new and it shows by your ideas.. your are putting yourself in that box.. becuase in that box you can see yourself as Dominant... because Dominants in that box do aftercare and bunch of other things. Being Dominant is more than living to the standards established by others.. it is living to the standards established by you and judged by you for you. "Our Role" doesn't exist... It is "My Role" and respecting that others have "Their Role" which may similiar or different than mine. When you push yourself away from the "Our Role".. then you will begin to get in touch with your own Dominance and I would suggest that you will become much more attractive to the submissive that is suited to you.

Madame4a -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:30:49 AM)
Sometimes that's the key for me.. who am I playing with.. if its a casual play partner, the aftercare is very different .. if its iwth my boi.. there is more...

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:39:26 AM)
For me, sessions may include fireplay (check for burned/scorched areas, blistering, etc.), cutting (cuttings must be cleaned and treated to prevent infection, -or-, if the cutting is intended to be a permanent marking, a special ointment is rubbed in to cause the cutting to scar), play piercing (like cutting, puncture wounds must be properly cared for to prevent infection), real piercing (see above), tattooing (again, see above), or branding (see above -burn treatment and scar treatment). In the next several years, I'll be learning to brand, do regular piercings, and prepare suspension piercings. My adult daughter will be doing our tattoos. Right now, we work with outside professionals for these things. In either case, we follow recommended aftercare. We don't do a lot of bondage, but I do know from having taken A&P (anatomy and physiology) that holding people for long periods of time in static positions can cause changes in oxygenation -- everything from cutting off circulation to limbs to blood clots. It's probably a good idea to keep an eye out for this kind of stuff -- to have someone around who is aware of the possibilities. Sometimes, you have a bottom who looks fine right after a scene, and then collapses 10-15 minutes later, when the full impact of the scene hits. Some folks it will never bother -- but how do you know? We've had bottoms who have taken hellacious beatings and were happy as larks after. We've had other bottoms who did a brief clamping scene and fainted... We've had a bottom who took a cutting scene without blinking an eye, and the -same- bottom fainted dead away when having hir earlobe pierced. We err on the side of caution, because that's common sense. Then again, common sense is rarely common. Calla Firestorm

pagankinktress -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:49:39 AM)
Since we're on the topic of blanket-statements, I'm going to say it. Aftercare is always a necessity when being subjected to Wal-mart. [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: abcbsex I once made the mistake of getting dressed right away and heading out to Wal-mart for dinner supplies, and that made me need a good cuddle afterwards. Wal-mart.... shudder

Missokyst -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 9:54:02 AM)
making mental note to keep fireplay and branding on the hard limit list LOL holey smokes, even though I am a cutter, I am very careful not to leave permanant scars. I have done play piercing but that didn't seem bad, I have had real piercings and that was OUCHIE, I have a tat but I just zoned. Branding has never been on the to do list for me.. Now that all seems like it requires attention! Thats what I am talking about! The worst that has happened to me is that I slid down the wall I was leaning against because of a violet wand, which freaked out the top who wielded it, but I think she required more aftercare than I did. I just wanted to zone. I am sooooooooooo not ready to play in the adult pool! But I have never had the need to take things to that extreme. The kiddie pool is not for me either. Once again it comes down to finding someone who meets your needs and being ready for your reactions. LOL Thanks for the visuals. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW For me, sessions may include fireplay (check for burned/scorched areas, blistering, etc.), cutting (cuttings must be cleaned and treated to prevent infection, -or-, if the cutting is intended to be a permanent marking, a special ointment is rubbed in to cause the cutting to scar), play piercing (like cutting, puncture wounds must be properly cared for to prevent infection), real piercing (see above), tattooing (again, see above), or branding (see above -burn treatment and scar treatment).

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 10:03:29 AM)
Just so you know, fireplay doesn't typically burn the recipient. I've only had one or two small 1st degree burns, even when I was still practicing on myself -- nothing worse than a concentrated sunburn... however, I watched the dominant whom I learned from play on a pale-skinned, red-headed lady. She told him up front that she burned if she looked at the sun through a window bigger than a postage stamp, but she really wanted to experience it. She developed first-degree burns everwhere we laid flame. We kept the scene short, but she did need some cold water packs and special care after. It's a matter of choice, and taking responsibility for one's own part in activities. Have fun with what you enjoy! Calla Firestorm

Amaros -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 10:07:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds i disagree and i'll even give an example of a dominant trying to give me after-care once that blew up in his face.... it was a normal day like any other day, and a normal flogging like any other flogging, however, during this particular flogging , unbeknownst to my dominant or to myself, i had gone into a very deep and very primal state, so when he proceeded to perform after-care i tore him apart like a wild animal; it took him about fourty minutes to wrestle me down; the results of which landed him and i at the emergency room with him being treated for deep bite wounds, severe, bloodied claw marks, and three stiches to his fore-head. i had bruises all over me that were obviously made by his hands restraining me. we had to tell them that i had been drinking and trying to get in the car to drive myself home and that his injuries were a result of him trying to prevent that from happening... needless to say, his attempt didn't strengthen our bond or our trust or some kind of grand poo ba intimacy or act of genuine domliness; it resulted in us not seeing or speaking to each other ever again. I blame this on failure of disclosure on the bottom's part. If a bottom knows that he or she doesn't like to be touched after play, I want to hear about it. I will tell you that, as a dominant, I would want to know that my property exhibited these kinds of tendencies up front, when we negotiated a scene. I'd want to be told "Oh, btw, I tend to go deep during subspace, and am violently reactive if touched afterwards'. Dominants are often very good at reading body language, but there is a measure of disclosure that is common sense. Not every bottoming situation requires aftercare, even with the same submissive individual involved -- but if aftercare is going to present a potential danger to either or both of us, I want to -know- about it, dammit. Calla Firestorm I'm not sure she knew this was going to be the outcome.

Missokyst -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 10:25:39 AM)
Too many people forget that part! Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW It's a matter of choice, and taking responsibility for one's own part in activities.

eyesopened -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 10:35:22 AM)
Aftercare? Is this the part where, as His slave, i wipe His face with a cool, clean washcloth and clean Him elsewhere with a clean, warm washcloth? Is this where i bring Him something to drink and lightly scrape my fingernails over His exquisite ass in order to induce shivers, to cool Him down? Is this where i offer my body as a blanket if He gets too cold? Is this the part where i rub His tired muscles and lay with Him in case He wants to go to sleep? Other than that, i don't know what aftercare is and what i could possibly want my Master to do for me other than allow me the opportunity to demonstrate my love and my appreciation for Him.

MistressSybella -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 12:43:53 PM)
Perhaps the bulk of you didn't read ALL of my post. It seems that most people are focusing in on parts and not taking it in as a whole. I wont quote the whole thing but I will point out what was said in the conclusions of the two primary paragraphs. If you go back and read it all, you can clearly see that I never said it was our job to "force" aftercare on someone that didn't want it. What I did say is this: "But it's still our job to find out and take appropriate action, or purposely withhold it for various reasons." And this: "If we are going to play, we have to be actively involved, to determine if aftercare is necessary and/or how much of what kind." Clearly that means that communication and negotiation is in order and if the submissive or bottom (since we ARE talking about scenes specifically) doesn't want or need aftercare, they they don't have to have it. A top should be there and an active participant if they do. My last live in submissive usually wanted a greasy hamburger after a hard scene. For her, "aftercare" consisted of me making a trip through the McDonald's drive through and bringing her back a large order of fries and her favorite burger. I have played with those who did and didn't need aftercare. Those that didn't got was a smile, and a "Thanks, that was fun." However, I was there if I was needed and that is entirely my point. For those that think I am wrong, so be it. I will still be safe and responsible when I play. I think it is a dumb move to discourage the dominant's responsibility of aftercare. At the very least, new tops should be aware that for some it is a real need and the obligations thereof. Miss 'Bella

wildtigress27 -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 1:23:58 PM)
As a submissive, aftercare is one of the criteria i use to judge a dominant when deciding whether to continue a relationship with them or not. I've had partners who were very attentitive to giving aftercare, and one whose idea of it was to wrap me in a blanket and walk away to play with others or do his own thing. Especially after a hard session where limits have been pushed, I need to be held, talked to, reassured and be given water or juice to help me recover. As i see it, any dominant who can't take the time to see to my wellbeing afterwards is selfish at best.

MistressSybella -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 1:38:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I don't want to hijack this thread but now I am curious. It does seem like quite a few people require aftercare now I am curious about why. Because scenes are incredibly intimate, where it's easy to feel one has been ripped inside out emotionally. Sometimes after something that intense, one needs something solid to hold onto. Sometimes all it takes is a glass of water and a hunk of chocolate, like you with the water and candy. Other times, the trick is to do nothing at all. Sometimes a person cannot fully explain why they need something but can recognize that it is indeed a need. And these needs are unique as well as situationally specific. To explain it better, all I can think to compare it to is lovemaking, and will because of the connection of intimacy. Have you ever made love, truly made love, where you felt you were raw with emotion and needed to cuddle or cry afterward? If a lover were to just get up and hop in the shower immediatly after they got their orgasm, wouldn't you agree that it would really be hurtful to the person who needed the cuddle? Some people don't like to be touched when they are angry. Some people don't like to be touched when they're raw with emtion of any kind. Others really need it. That aside, humans generally like and need to be touched; we have that in common. When we are in an intimate relationship with someone, even if it is for one scene, we have certain responsibilities to ourself and the other person. quote: ORIGINAL: wildtigress27 As i see it, any dominant who can't take the time to see to my wellbeing afterwards is selfish at best. That made me smile, tigress. ;) Ok...I'm done with this thread. Have fun, all. :) Miss 'Bella

NeedingMore220 -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 3:27:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I love aftercare when I am with someone who matters to me. I liked it when my x brought me a drink of water, a candy, and held me as he put them up to my mouth. For me that was sweet, loving, tender, and in my eyes, helped him resolve his feelings enough to calm him down. My co-operation in being cared for was my part in letting him see that what he did was not bad. This is exactly why I need aftercare - to soothe me emotionally after being used. It's to connect with my Dominant, because I don't play casually. I play with the one I am in a relationship with, and the cuddling and stroking and loving words satisfy a deep emotional need that I have - and it has also been what my Dominant needs also, for the reason you shared above. quote: I have never required aftercare because my senses were overwhelmed making me incapable of recovery. Don't get me wrong. I have had some bad cases of subdrop, but that tends to be hours, even days after an intense scene. But even then, unless I am involved romatically with the man, it has never been so bad that I was not ok without help. I've had subdrop like you describe - hours or days after. I also have never been overwhelmed and some nice snuggling and warm fuzzies generally ensure a good recovery. I've had subdrop, but I don't think it was connected to the type of aftercare I received.

cillydom -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/6/2008 3:55:23 PM)
for aftercare i check for a pulse

OsideGirl -> RE: After care or no after care, what a stupid question. (7/7/2008 7:40:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst . It does seem like quite a few people require aftercare now I am curious about why. I usually need aftercare. My blood sugar drops during play, so I need something sweet afterwards. Typically, I just like to sit and fly. Master usually likes to have me on his lap or cuddled up for that part. However, I don't like being stroked or petted during that stage. After that point, it's like I'm drunk for a few hours after playing. I'm not safe to drive.

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