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RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:21:14 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		Red...I am old enough to know better. I guess i put all my chips on the table and trusted her and threw the dice. Now I shall either make it or fail. I guess what Im asking for is, how to help HER make it? It's so hard long distance. There is so little true communication without seeing, smelling and touching another.

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:26:08 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		And red, you are correct as well. I put all my chips on the table, trusted her and threw my dice. Now I am asking, what can i do to help her make the jump? 

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:26:11 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!

For a while there, you sounded like you were talking about me!! lol I had to re-read. Many people will tell you to walk away,and for them that is probably a good idea. Few people want to look beyond the obvious-however..... I have panic attacks, I cannot go out shopping and even my kids activites are very hard for me. I try and keep low and close to home. I also shield people from seeingmy full blown attacks as they are not pretty-downright humiliating. So I understand part of her problem is "letting go" and "insecurity" and trying to protect you and the whole gamut.

My second Master I tried to run away from once. I was traveling to see him-no easy feat as I just explained-and started to have an attack. So I literally ran right out the door-he tried to stop me and started to succeed but that fear and wanting to protect would not let me "let go".  Afterwards is the guilt, the second guessing, the hurt-people think we are being selfish doing that but sometimes we are not.

My Daddy -now- I tried to run away twice. Both times he stood in front of me and held me down, calmed me. And sure enough he saw the whole enchilada, I was so embarrassed but at that same time and afterwards when he stayed right there, I knew I could count on him. Everytime you stick with us and work with us thru it, you teach us trust and safety. If you let us go when we start to run-you reinforce what we already fear. Does that make sense? I dunno. Maybe a Dom/Domme might not understand but a Daddy Dom or Mommy might. My Daddy did and I am so glad he stuck with me.

Hopefully that helps you, it is just my story and since I can understand her poitn of view. Daddy says that is why I "crossed over from sub to baby girl" , from "Dom to Daddy", case I needed that extra bit of care and love and patience. And I will tell you what.. I love him for it.

Love,
Zechriel
  -Daddy's baby girl

(in reply to TheBanshee)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:28:09 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seph
I guess what Im asking for is, how to help HER make it?

Have her post so we can talk to her -- or, better, help her pay for a therapist.  You only control yourself.  Even in 24/7/365 total power exchange -- which this, um, isn't -- the slave ultimately decides whether to obey.

Alternatively, you could go to a therapist, yourself, alone.  You are describing a serious problem.  If you haven't been able to solve it with direct personal knowledge, a bunch of random message-boarders can't either.  Talk to a professional.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:29:56 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Make her jump?

You sound as if you think she's a frog.

Better to ask,what did you do to make her NOT want to?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:35:37 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		You, to me
Are sweet as roses in the morning
You, to me
Are soft as summer in that dawning love we share
That something rare

The sidewalks and the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begin to crumble
But love will never die
You know we'll see the mountains crumble
Before we say goodbye
My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
That's the way love was meant to be

All around
I see the purple shades of evening
On the ground
The shadow's fallen, once again you're in my arms
So tenderly

The sidewalks and the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begin to crumble
But love will never die
You know we'll see the mountains crumble
Before we say goodbye
My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
That's the way love was meant to be

The sidewalks and the street
The concrete and the clay beneath my feet
Begin to crumble
But love will never die
You know we'll see the mountains crumble
Before we say goodbye
My love and I will be
In love eternally
That's the way
That's the way love was meant to be

That's the way
That's the way love was meant to be




_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 7:44:13 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		Zechriel, she clearly has panic attacks, she has difficulty breathing, the whole 9 yards. But I cant reach out and hold her, and let her know she is safe. That is my trap. In the real physical world she would understand, I believe it. As to jump, I meant that she be able to jump from the side of fear to the side of trust. she has to choose to jump, not because i tell her she must.  I will be sending her a note in about 9 days offering to go to counseling together if she wishes it. I am already speaking to a counselor myself. We both have been under terrible personal stress which has not helped. And yes, if it crumbles, the love will still be there for us both, which is what is so painful.

(in reply to NumberSix)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/5/2008 10:50:24 PM   
Battleflag


Posts: 37
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		I've been in a similar place where you're at. 
Fact is you've both put yourself in these positions and now it's time for both of you to "meet and greet".
 
Have no doubt, every thing you think you know about each other is about to be blown away in the course of the initial time you spend in each other's company.  It could be bad, but the reality could so outshine the OL time you've been together that you'll laugh and wonder what the worry was. 
 
You'll both step up and deliver or one or the both of you will blink.  As to her taking steps forward all I can say is leave no doubt in her mind that you are who you say you are and don't make her feel like she's delivering less than you deserve.  Sounds like she has enough doubts and more.
 
Luck to you.  :  )

_____________________________

"Anyone who hasn’t experienced the ecstasy of betrayal knows nothing about ecstasy at all." ~ Jean Genet

"Even Christ could only get 11 of 12 right." ~ Unknown

"After all these years I'm still haze grey and underway..." ~ Me.


(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/6/2008 4:19:59 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		You really don't know a thing about her, but honestly, what you've said would be HUGE red flags for me.  People tend to minimize things and my guess is she has some serious issues.  Just my take -- my instincts, your mileage may vary but none of this sounds healthy. 

You have no idea who you love -- you love what she's put forth for you to see, that's fairly easy online.

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/6/2008 6:51:24 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		personally, i'm not one to drag something like this on.  i've met with a few here and the longest it went from email to meeting in person was 4 months (long enough and because of our schedules)  and that was just as friends. 
a year is a very long time to play the "back and forth" game.  as others have said...you don't really know a person you only know the persona they portray online.

it sounds as though you're trying to "save" her and my question to you is why?  what makes you feel that you can save her or make things better for her? 

if you choose to proceed with trying to form some type of RT relationship, i would suggest you do it with eyes open. she is who she is (or who she protrays herself to be) and you need to accept her as-is and not as you could make her to be. some personality traits can't be changed.

i truly do wish you the best of luck.  no matter what....never forget good old common sense.

peace.

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/6/2008 7:30:15 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		My suggestion:


Tell her that you value the relationship with her and intend for it to continue.  However, you feel like she may not be ready for the pressure of a full relationship at this point, so that you want to slow it down to friendship to ease the pressure.  You will continue to chat with her online while you look for a sub in RL.  No matter what happens, you want to remain at least friends with the option of more later should things work out that way.



_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/7/2008 3:44:35 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I know it sounds pompous, but I truly believe she needs a loving caring person in her life and she could be truly be happy. How to help her feel safe and ready to try is my conundrum. At the moment I am leaving her be, but am sick at heart. Advice?


Seph,

Simply give her the space she desires and then give her more of the same.

CP

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/7/2008 8:31:57 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seph
In the real physical world she would understand, I believe it. As to jump, I meant that she be able to jump from the side of fear to the side of trust. she has to choose to jump, not because i tell her she must. 

This sounds like a very painful situation for you.  It sounds like you have done all that you can, you have offered your support and a willingness to accommodate her fears and concerns yet she still hesitates after a year of knowing you.  It is now up to her to make a choice and people often do not do this until life becomes so uncomfortable for them that they feel they have to change things.  Maybe at some level this is working for her....she has a man that loves her and provides support and she is able to call the shots in this online relationship, when she says she doesn't want contact from you it sounds like she knows you will wait for her. 

Just one reminder as well.... you say that in the real world she would understand and possibly be more willing to trust you and develop the relationship further... this is not always the case, sometimes people who are anxious and hesitant online will still be anxious and hesitant in real life.  Whilst meeting someone in person can allay some fears it doesn't always mean that the relationship and communication improves.

You mentioned that you are attending counselling, is she also seeing someone?  From my own experience people who experience anxiety and panic disorders  can  obtain very significant improvements through counselling (CBT interentions being the most successful) however this will require a willingness on her part to make changes in her life and also a willingness to have discomfort initially.

I wish you both peace.




_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
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(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/7/2008 8:58:36 AM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		I know that even should we meet, she may flee. But having her reach out only that far would be a breakthrough. Space is a strange thing. When left alone in it one of 3 things seems to happen. You remain in stasis and stay as you are. You allow fear to absorb you and keep you as you are or you realize you are tired of suffering.

My nature is to show someone the path and press them to it. To show them the mirror and tell them how to change.  Here I am in a position where they must agree or even desire to change. I am hamstrung. I tell them go to hell and walk away or sit and sit and sit.  She has become so important to me that I am doing the very thing that is not my nature, I sit and allow another to drive the bus toward a cliff.

She hides her pain from the world in work and good cheer. She seeks no counselling that I know of. I am losing hope and faith in her. This most recent flight has really hurt me badly. So I wait.

(in reply to wandersalone)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/7/2008 9:58:20 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seph

Timeframe is a problem for me. I fear that if I limit her she will simply walk. On the other hand by nature I am a decisive person. I see a real potential for us for something very good, but how do I "know" if she will never be able to "reach out" as she calls it.  


Seph you sound like a fantastic patient man ...  you have invested one year in her and lets be honest you don't want to spend another year waiting , 5 or even 10 years and if allowed she will continue to take the safe road  which is refusing to trust  and will continue to hide behind the computer screen..... I know I was married to a very abusive man both emotionally and physical including beating me to the point of causing a miscarriage of our first child  and I threw away a lot of years trying to remain safe ..it was loneliness that finally drew me out it was listening to this song that I had heard many times that made me realize what I was doing and made me realize I had a choice ..stay safe but maintain loneliness or take risks ..possibly I may get hurt but if I use some common sense I could minimize the hurt .. but without some risk of  emotional pain/hurt  I won't have the chance to find happiness   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqQF4l_8Ks&feature=related 

...but for her she has your attention and affection  so right now she is not really lonely ..she has a safe relationship it is enough for her and  in her mind  there is no risks right now to face..she has some fulfillment and she is safe...  ..so for her there is no reason to change the relationship because she views it as safe and will not bring harm to her... she claims she loves you but she is afraid of fear and rejection ..... maybe now is the time to  give her a litte push and show her that  risks do exist    ... ask her if the fear of meeting you over dinner/coffee a for simple non demanding  date is  stronger  than her love for you and her fear of losing you because she will lose you if she continues ....give her a few  days to think about ... if the answer is no than set the time for the meet otherwise let her know  you will have to set her free because a  safe relationship behind  a computer is not enough for you, you need more .....but it is her choice  ..your  not going to be the one hurting/abandoning  her....if she chooses to refuse to meet it would be her hurting you by rejecting you because you do care a great deal for her...let her know that

.....this puts the control of the relationship in her hands but is also makes her aware that her envisioned safety is not real  that it does have a risk ...and only she can decide if the risk it too great for her..... Is it possible you may lose her ???? Yes ...but what you would lose  is a relationship that would remain strictly online  and could last for years ...and I am sure after after a while ...you would throw in the towel out of frustration and would be the one having to hurt her by eventually rejecting her ..which would be far more painful to her  than if she is the one ending it.  So really become kinder to her if you let her decide whether to move the relationship up a notch or end.   

If she does agree to meet and you date  again she may become frozen into keeping the relationship at the same  level ...and you may have to give her another gentle push .,,in the same manner ...by putting the control her hands again to decide. 







_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/7/2008 7:59:02 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		The truth is, I have been pushing. Sometimes too hard, sometimes not hard enough. I have decided to do as she requests and leave her in silence to think. If I push now she will simply walk. I can afford to wait. She will either come to me willingly or not. If not I have kept my word to her and have never abandoned her. If she chooses to come, I will gently push from time to time as she is able to tolerate.

At the moment, she is not in a comfortable position with me. I don't think she feels secure in our relationship or happy.  At times I have just plain pushed too hard, usually because I "know" what is best. Well, what is "know" is not necessarily what she knows. I have many tasks in my life at the moment. I will focus on them while never forgetting her and will send the occasional note letting her know I am thinking of her.

The choice of how she leads her life is in her hands. I have to support her in making her choice and i guess at the moment that is by being still.

I grew up hearing that song Maya...funny how you can hear a song for so many years and not listen to it.  I lived as an Island and it took me many years to swim to shore. I had to do it in my own time when I too realized it was a lie to myself and a cheat. I cannot make her swim. She must want it.

Thank you for your kindness and honesty all, you have been great people.  Seph

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/8/2008 7:56:52 AM   
Chrisdeb7478


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		my 2 cents are a unique spot you have texted and chatted but have you seen what she looks like? there is the possiblity she may be a he and thats why there is a nervousness

(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/8/2008 12:19:50 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		Our relation was far broader than online texting. We have been pretty fully integrated into each others lives. Phone, video, writing. We essentially lived together online for a year. I know that deceipt is a sad reality here. I don't feel she has decieved me but simply is collapsing under the pressure of changing her safe online life into the one she has wanted but been cheated of for so many years.

She is afraid of life and taking the chance that fully living entails. It is a terrible emotional risk for her. I made mistakes. Life has dealt us both cards that have made impediments to reaching our potential. I am in a place where I am ready and found someone who simply put, has reached my heart. I hope she uses this time to assess not her fears, but her hopes.

(in reply to Chrisdeb7478)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/8/2008 3:14:18 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		People have given you plenty of advice and you can keep answering, and making excuses for her and for yourself. 

People come here all of the time with their stories, seeking advice, but what they want is for someone to give them hope or validation that they aren't crazy for continuing in unhealthy, unrealistic, unfulfilling, often one-sided relationships.

I admire your tenacity, but I think you have built a fantasy life around a woman who will never give life to that fantasy.

Being married likely limits the number of women who are willing to pursue anything with you, and I'm sure you know that.  It makes you unavailable or at the very least, limits your availability to a perspective submissive.  So you've found a woman who is also unavailable to you, so together you have created a very strained and limited relationship that lacks any face to face interactions. 

These types of scenarios happen all of the time, with different players and different reasons for the unavailability. 

You either choose to continue the fantasy game with her, or you move on and find someone who knows and accepts your limited availability, and is still willing to have a real live face to face relationship with you.






(in reply to Seph)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: fear in moving from O/L to R/L - 7/8/2008 5:25:08 PM   
Seph


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		My divorce will be final before December. She knows this and that my wife and I are seperated.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 40
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