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Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 5:15:21 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Sir once told me a story about how He had taken one of His sub's to a restaurant and part way through the meal slapped her round the face. He had forgotten briefly where He was etc an dhad just done what came naturally. Needless to say this caused offence to those around them in the restaurant.
 
Whilst out with a friend of mine and his sub for a drink one day, she said something out of turn and he sent her to sit on the other side of the pub for about five minutes. Possibly people picked up on this and possibly it caused offence to some people.
 
Neither of these would have or did cause any offence to me but i know they possibly would / did cause offence to joe public and others in the lifestyle.
 
Yesterday i was having a conversation with a friend and something he does / is doing in public really offended me. It doesn't really matter what it was and it would be unfair to him to place it 'out' here so i won't. I will also add that what he is doing is in no way wrong / illegal, just wrong in my opinion.
 
Being friends we were both honest about our sides of the coin, but couldn't really come to any agreement or compromise on the issue. He didn't really appear to understand the objections i had and his only response was it was ok because he always tried not to offend people.
 
My question is where do we draw the line in public? What is appropriate and inappropriate behaviour in public? With so many different kinds of people out there and so many things that can and do cause offence to others, how do we balance living true to our relationships and not offending others?
 
 
 
 
 

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 5:55:04 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		Personally, I'm of the belief that you simply cannot live life without offending someone.  It doesn't have to be intentional, it WILL happen.  If I were to try to live my life by not offending anyone, then I may as well lock myself in my home and stop using any devices that allow me contact with the outside world. 

That being said, we have laws.  If we maintain our public persona within the confines of law (or at least remain discreet when choosing not to), then if someone becomes offended, it becomes their problem, not mine.

The story regarding your Sir slapping a former in public crossed the line of legality - it is illegal to assault another human being.  While I would not take offense if I knew the dynamic present, I likely would have been upset seeing a woman being hit otherwise.  It is a sign of abuse.  Please understand, I'm not suggesting your Sir is abusive -  I'm only suggesting how things appear in the public eye.

So, what line do we draw to avoid causing offense?  I guess that is going to depend upon who you ask, but for me at least, I save the things that can have the cops called by strangers to be kept out of view by those strangers.  Otherwise, if they do not like my actions, they can feel free to avert their eyes, voice their opinion, or leave the area.  If they choose to voice their opinion, I reserve the right to voice mine in return.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:17:04 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

The story regarding your Sir slapping a former in public crossed the line of legality - it is illegal to assault another human being.  While I would not take offense if I knew the dynamic present, I likely would have been upset seeing a woman being hit otherwise.  It is a sign of abuse.  Please understand, I'm not suggesting your Sir is abusive -  I'm only suggesting how things appear in the public eye.

I completely agree. It was used as an obvious crossing of the line between offensive and non - offensive to joe public.
 
quote:

So, what line do we draw to avoid causing offense?  I guess that is going to depend upon who you ask, but for me at least, I save the things that can have the cops called by strangers to be kept out of view by those strangers. 

Completely agree.
 
quote:

Otherwise, if they do not like my actions, they can feel free to avert their eyes, voice their opinion, or leave the area.  If they choose to voice their opinion, I reserve the right to voice mine in return.

Now this is where i think the issue turns into shades of grey. For example if i was to go out with Sir wearing a collar and lead i would definately offend some people. Its not illegal as far as im aware but i'm pretty sure most people don't want to see it, especially those out with their kids.
Should people have to avert there eyes or leave the area because i have chosen to do this or should i take into account public feeling on this and just not do it?


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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:18:51 AM   
MidMichCowboy


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Status: offline 		I was always taught that freedom means you can do anything you want .. as long as you do not infringe on another's rights.
That makes for interesting situations. Can you whip someone in public? Until the cops haul you away or some cowboy beats the shit out of you for hitting someone in public, you may get away with it. Sex in public ... you will get arrested (yea, personal experience .. damn hormones).
Kissing between two lovers .. some feel  opposite sex is OK (within limits), I feel any couple can show affection but remember .. in public, behave like ummms could walk in. Its mostly common sense.
If you feel so insecure that you need to shock people because you will do whatever you please .. some day you will get a rude awaking and discover all your insecurities. Common sense means we act appropriately in public. I've never felt the need to shock or offend people, just because I could. I'd rather expend my efforts into making worth while changes.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:22:38 AM   
Patrick2005


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Status: offline 		The face slapping incident had nothing to do with offending people, in my opinion.  When you do something illegal in public, the issue is not offense, it is intelligence or lack thereof.  For other, more "normal" bdsm things, I think you have to consider the venue and the audience.  Some people are easily offended, and by things that people should just shrug off.  You can't always please these people.  When several people are offended, then it probably is a problem.  I have accidentally offended people in public by asking Master for permission to sit (in a restaruant) and by asking permission to leave his presence to look at something (in a store).  In both cases, I didn't worry about it, because I felt the people who were offended were sanctimonious pricks.  On the other hand, once I accidentally offended someone by public nudity, and I felt bad about that. 

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:24:42 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I have worn my collar in public, and never had a bad reaction.  Quite honestly, I don't see people offended by that currently - it is too much of a fashion statement these days for people to even take a second peek.
 
I believe people make it harder for themselves.  There are numerous acts and symbols that can be displayed in public, which if done as 'ordinary' no one blinks an eye.  People in BDSM like to think what they do is out of the ordinary and that people are shocked - but people do bizarre things everyday that aren't linked to BDSM - so it's not what you do, it's how your responsible with it.
 
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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:31:30 AM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		i don't think it's anyone else's business if you wear a collar in public, or if your master sends you away from the table for five minutes because he doesn't like your behavior.

but face slapping in a restaurant goes way over the line for me (as much as i love face slapping).  you are forcing the hand of everyone in the restaurant who innocently came in to have a meal, relax, and enjoy themselves.  at the very least, you have ruined their dinner, fretting as to whether or not he is going to beat you silly or kill you later.  at the worst, you are causing people to take action against (as it was stated above) a public battery.  i can guarantee if any of my male friends witnessed the face slapping, the slapper would have been dragged outside for a physical altercation with "someone his own size."  bdsm is no excuse for a lack of social skills.


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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:32:53 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I avoid public displays of power in that regard.  Less so the "corner time".  I feel bystanders are non-consenting but involved parties to public displays.   I have no problem slapping slaves and all sorts of public humiliations, but only when the onlookers consent.  Being in a public place, the "You left the house, you braved all there is to see" argument, is not consenting to see or do anything (except be seen/heard by others). 

You did say he forgot his setting, and that can happen to anyone, if it was an isolated incident then lets all just be happy it didn't end with arrest. 

I do recognize the massive potential for showing dominance that exists amongst the general public, and I do exploit that.  I do so subtly.  Yesterday (was it yesterday..?)  I had My Pet wear pig tails out, which is rare to see on an adult.  I had her wear a skirt with no underwear, I ordered for her, I had her grab things for me (although not hold them... I don't like the idea of her holding things for me.)  etc.

It's not as effective as a slap in the face, but its not a slap in the face of the public, either.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:34:14 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Status: offline 		Me and some of my previous partners have pushed things in public at times.  There's a place and a time for everything even in public.   It would depend upon the setting, place and type of people.   Some things I would not do on a Sunday in front of a local church, compared to Friday night at the local bar.  Well, I think you get the picture.  Also time of day.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:48:45 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Now this is where i think the issue turns into shades of grey. For example if i was to go out with Sir wearing a collar and lead i would definately offend some people. Its not illegal as far as im aware but i'm pretty sure most people don't want to see it, especially those out with their kids.
Should people have to avert there eyes or leave the area because i have chosen to do this or should i take into account public feeling on this and just not do it?



Here, I think it is up to the two of you how comfortable you are.  How are people to learn tolerance of others if they are never subjected to things which make them practice tolerance?

Okay, so, I wouldn't take a boy on leash in front of a group of men who were just released from prison - I don't want to subject him to possibly having his ass kicked and me being raped just so they could 'prove a point'.  But, that wouldn't prevent me from having a leash on someone in a town that is known to be tolerant of alternative lifestyles.

It isn't necessarily about shock and awe - it is about my freedom of expression.  If the gay and lesbian community did not force their views on the heterosexual community, do you honestly believe that we would be putting measures on ballots to determine if gay marriages should be legal?  Sometimes, people need to see things they don't like so they can begin to understand them.

I think it is important for people to be aware that when they leave the comfort of their own home, they might be subjected to seeing something they may not like.  I do not like seeing people ignoring their children while talking to other adults and their children wandering aimlessly around.  My options?  Ignore it, inform the parents of their children's whereabouts, contact management/officials if the child is endangering themself or others.  I still have to 'see it' whether I like it or not.

Edited for typo. 

< Message edited by Domin8tingUrDrmz -- 7/8/2008 6:50:08 AM >

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 6:50:33 AM   
TwoNYCDommes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I have worn my collar in public, and never had a bad reaction.  Quite honestly, I don't see people offended by that currently - it is too much of a fashion statement these days for people to even take a second peek.
I believe people make it harder for themselves.  There are numerous acts and symbols that can be displayed in public, which if done as 'ordinary' no one blinks an eye.  People in BDSM like to think what they do is out of the ordinary and that people are shocked - but people do bizarre things everyday that aren't linked to BDSM


I agree.

I recall one time when a little boy noticed the collar my slave was wearing and pointed it out to his mother, "Mommy, that man is wearing a dog collar!"  The child thought it was weird and funny.  It was no more offensive as an article of clothing than, say, furry bunny slippers would have been.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:07:25 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoNYCDommes
It was no more offensive as an article of clothing than, say, furry bunny slippers would have been.

Is that what you make him wear when he has been very bad?


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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:22:30 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		recently, i attended a fetish party in a well known venue in which most were wearing fetish clothes. granted there wasn't a minor in sight, some were more confused/curious than offended esp when i lead by leash and chains. you could tell they enjoyed watching the kinksters parade around in their fetishwear. now, if this had taken place during the day, my appearance would have been gravely toned down not to offend anyone.

quote:

  I have worn my collar in public, and never had a bad reaction.  Quite honestly, I don't see people offended by that currently - it is too much of a fashion statement these days for people to even take a second peek


from the recent shows i've reviewed, the kink look blends in well with emo/goth to heavy metal/rock scene. i've received comments from bands and fans about my collars and chains. yet when not working, it's a different story. i do stand out like a sore thumb wearing my collar and chains but it doesn't bother me if i get curious stares. i wear Daddy's symbols of His ownership with pride.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:23:36 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		MissT, I try to be a considerate person.

So, that being said, I believe I need to consider the people I will be around in determining what is appropriate behaviour, dress, attitude, etc.

I remember when my kids were teens. We lived in a much larger city than most of my extended family did. My kids were used to dressing a certain way that was acceptable for the city we lived in, the school they attended and the friends they had.

My daughter got angry when she was teased by her cousin and his friends when she spent a week back home one summer. I explained to her that if she did not want to be teased then she should tone down the nature of her appearance. That what was an acceptable norm in Cedar Rapids, was making people uncomfortable in rural Iowa. Otherwise she needed to grow a thicker skin and be prepared to defend herself and her choices.

Bascially, we all have a right to express ourselves however we want, within the limits of the law. BUT, we also need to remember that others do also. And all too often "expressing ourselves" comes more, in the form of passing judgements based upon appearance and behaviour. If I see behaviour I think is unacceptable, I am going to treat that person poorly. If I walk downtown in a pink bunny suit, I expect to get laughed at and rediculed.

It also is worth remembering that the person/s we offend while "expressing ourselves" may be the very people we want to like us. Example: the HR person interviewing for that job we really want. Or, the judge we go in front of when we want to fight that parking ticket.

I am not saying we can't be individuals or that we have to give in to any sort of norm or herd mentality. I am saying that we must keep in mind the possible consequences before we get our panties in a wad about "our rights to express ourselves".


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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:27:01 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

Common sense means we act appropriately in public.

But what is appropriate?
You have mentioned several illegal activities which obviously are offensive to most but what about other stuff?

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:30:21 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
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Status: offline 		I think appropriate will be determined by the nature of the place and people around.

Extreme example: Are you going to dress and behave the same going to Sunday dinner at grandma's house as you did the night before at the night club?


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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:30:29 AM   
DominantJenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

My question is where do we draw the line in public? What is appropriate and inappropriate behaviour in public? With so many different kinds of people out there and so many things that can and do cause offence to others, how do we balance living true to our relationships and not offending others? 


I go with a combination of society's general broad rules (aka don't break laws or well-known general rules like "no shirt, no shoes, no service") and my own personal standards for what I think it is reasonable to take offense at.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:30:59 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

I have worn my collar in public, and never had a bad reaction.  Quite honestly, I don't see people offended by that currently - it is too much of a fashion statement these days for people to even take a second peek.

Totally agree but i wasnt speaking of wearing a collar. I was talking about wearing a collar and leash and being led round by it.

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:34:33 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

MissT, I try to be a considerate person.

So, that being said, I believe I need to consider the people I will be around in determining what is appropriate behaviour, dress, attitude, etc.

I am not saying we can't be individuals or that we have to give in to any sort of norm or herd mentality. I am saying that we must keep in mind the possible consequences before we get our panties in a wad about "our rights to express ourselves".

Couldnt have said it better

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Causing offense. - 7/8/2008 7:41:56 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Collars and leashes are pretty standard.  If we were talking the states, I would probably suggest it a bit more out the norm, but in the UK I see it all the time and have done it myself and still no one really bats an eye.
Apart from maybe the chavs, and they just find it funny.
 
It's nothing more than a fashion statement outside of and even in BDSM circs sometimes.
 
It's not the action that causes the issue, it's the behaviour that comes with it.  If you behave stupidly and with superior intent, or as if it is some way-out practise, you get back what you give.
 
There will always be people who will be offended by what another person does.  That doesn't mean that the other person has to stop doing it.
 
the.dark.

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