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RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 1:43:03 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
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yes, just like they can tie their own shoes, go to school and/or work, and function as most capable adults; the only difference being, they have meds to take to keep them stable, which isn't unlike most of the rest of the world in todays society it seems

(in reply to Blessedmistress)

Post #: 41

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 2:21:27 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee
whatever works for each individual, but it is an idvidual's choice and responsiblity. an owner/Master/Mistress can only act as support, not take on the responsibility, share it maybe, but in the long run it is still we still own it.

So are you saying then that in an M/s relationship, management of bipolar disorder should be a 'hard limit' if you want to be able to call the relationship SSC? The sub cannot trust their dominant with being perceptive enough to know when it is time to call in expert reinforcements (i.e. psychiatrist) or to keep the sub on the proscribed medication and health regemin required to keep the sub from cycling so rapidly or violently that they become a danger to themselves or others?

i believe that the things you listed were what i, as a bipolar person, would identify as support behaviors...because at that point i have reached a point where i am not making choices that are rational or just plain good for my health and well being....

what i do however put hard limits on are things like when i am not being dangerous to myself or irrational that my Owner have anything to do with my mental health...now this may seem a contradiction in terms, but i have to very carefully choose who i submit to because i cannot let myself get into a position where i depend 100% on another person...i am on SSI and it is difficult enough to survive as is, if i were to depend 100% on one person and then loose that person to a freak accident or god forbid, a break up, i would be devistated and unable to function...so i match up with someone who doesn't want that kind of dependence....someone who is, shockingly enough, compatible...

thats what it is all about when we come across someone who seems like they have said something completely off the wall....they are not compatable with us...and we move along and find someone who is...and sometimes it takes time, but things that are worth it do....

chelle

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(in reply to Maxwell67)

Post #: 42

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 2:25:12 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelwithhonor

...i know this has been somewhat discussed here. but i just wanted to see the view agian. i have seen some discussion on depression and bipolar disorders. i have bipolar, and i do alot to keep it in check. you have ups and downs, but i really try. well anyways i had a Dom last nite ask me somethin. "how can you be a submissive if you have bipolar?" my submission comes deep with in me. even though my moods come up and down. i still know my place. i know who i am proudly and i know that the disorder to is part of me also. i dont have a Dom at the moment. but i think that its not the question of bipolar would keep me from submitting to Him. His guidence to me would lead me back in mind set if i strayed. " with His hands that lead, she shall follow!" that is my thoughts. any thoughts on this subject. may i ask what you all think? thank you and peace

It's been pretty much covered and covered by now, but I'll jump in and say it again:

The person who made that generalization was a moron.

As with any illness, life event, schedule, ANYTHING it's a matter of how the individual handles it: Do they take care of themselves? Are they proactive? Self-aware? Manage their life? Take responsibility for themselves? Etc.

Some with bipolar (or diabetes, or endometriosis, or kids, or a varying work schedule, or an ailing mother, or...) don't do one or any of these things. Some do.

Regardless of what's going on -or not- in someone's life, it comes down to how they handle it. I don't care if you're in perfect health, have a regular 9-to-5er and no family issues... if you can't/won't handle yourself and your life, I'm not interested. And vice versa: I don't care if you've health concerns, a varying schedule or family issues... if you can/do handle yourself and your life, I may be interested.

I've health issues, I handle them. Almost everyone, at some point in time and to some extent, has something they have to balance in life. What's important is if they do or not, in my opinion.

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(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 43

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 2:40:59 PM

Maxwell67

Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

(snip)... if i were to depend 100% on one person and then loose that person to a freak accident or god forbid, a break up, i would be devistated and unable to function...so i match up with someone who doesn't want that kind of dependence....

I can definately see the reasoning here. However, having said that, I can see enough from the things I see posted here in other threads, that even with considerably less dependence, many subs/slaves are extraordinarily devastated at the loss of their dom/owner as it is. I cannot see this being any more devastating one way or the other at this point.

One can only hope that during that time together if the care and discipline provided by the top was also geared toward this kind of support, that it would not just fade upon loss of that person. I would think the healthiest way to support a person suffering bipolar disorder is to establish the goal that such care should be made obsolete.. so the sub/slave can maintain the discipline on their own should the need arise.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 44

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 2:56:32 PM

somethndif

Posts: 136
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

My Sir and i had a pet who was bipolar, and not on any medication. She was VERY up and down - and very hard to live with in that there was always a drama going on - even if we didn't know it. I'm a pretty easy going person so that aspect was something of a trial. I like a calm peaceful house.

We had a similar experience with a bipolar submissive. We didn't find out until near the end of the relationship. She didn't tell us at the beginning. She was on meds, but after being on them a while, would stop or reduce them. Also while on meds, she would sometimes drink too much wine, which would also cause erratic, drama-filled behavior.

I wouldn't want to go through that again. Perhaps if she had told us in the beginning and managed her condition properly things would have been different. But bi-polar disorder would be a concern for me now.

Dan

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 45

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 2:59:28 PM

Leatherist

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Maybe. But someone would need to have extraordinary emotional and mental control for *me* to tolerate them being around.

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(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 46

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 3:10:17 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelwithhonor

.....kiwi, so do you think that one with disorders, that kinda wack the brain thinkings. that we cant server respectfully?. i dont mean that question to you in a attack way. maybe the key word is really trying to keep a grip even if meds are needed . i guess it just pissed me off that this Dom said, hey can you really be a sub with bipolar?. i serve completly, and i have served many times. i havent changed in my ways of my submission. i have grown more deeper with in it. but i have always had bipolar." its like hey can assholes who ask a ? without really thinking it out a true Dom!"

Angel - to me the two have nothing to do with each other. I have depression treated with meds - and am the happiest person i know. Even if i quit my meds i would still be submissive.
Our pet wasn't on meds and was very hard to live with - but she still wanted to serve.

Perhapes you could direct the dom to this site for an answer to his question.

(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 47

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 3:23:40 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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~ Fast Reply ~

I have a brother and a sister with bipolar disorder. We all suspect my mother has it, but she refuses any sort of mental diagnosis. Those whom I have known with bipolar and who stayed true to their treatment plans were well functioning people. Those who veered off their treatment plans were not well functioning, and tended to bring drama to those around them.

If a person is submissive by nature, and bipolar by nature, then theyare both. It's not one or the other. That's like saying you can't be gay and bipolar, either. I suspect the person who had the theory that one can not be submissive and bipolar may have been thinking of untreated folks who are a slave to their illness first and foremost.

As for the brief hijack going on about bipolar not being a disease, no sites were referenced so I did some homework. The Biology Online Science Dictionary defines a disease as "A pathological condition in which the normal functioning of an organism is impaired or disrupted resulting in extreme pain, dysfunction, distress or death." It goes on to say "It may include a state of injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes...."

The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has a fact sheet on Mental Illness, which lists bipolar disorder in their list of "Serious mental illnesses".

For those interested, here is a fact sheet on bipolar disorder.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 48

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 4:38:25 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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To me, there is a difference between being a submissive person and submitting. Some people who are diagnosed with bipolar are able to manage their illness so that they can submit to someone else and some people submit to their illness. They are still a submissive person, but their illness is controlling them.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 49

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 10:27:29 PM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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You can be a submissive with bipolar the same way I am a Master with bipolar...by being mindful that I am ME, not the disorder and taking proper care of the disorder. I don't rely on my partners to be my psychiatrist and I take responsibility for my own mental health. If you can do those things, too, you can do anything you want, include being submissive.

Master Fire - bipolar

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(in reply to angelwithhonor)

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RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 10:49:22 PM

LadybugBlue

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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Short answer - yes you can be a submissive with bipolar.

Likewise, you can be a dom or sub with BPD (bipolar disorder), depression, anxiety issues, etc, etc, etc. The key, IMHO, is disclosure during the initial negotiations, so that allowances can be made for treatment/monitoring. For instance, I self-identify as a switch. I also battle "severe clinical depression." (in other words, a perpetual depression caused by an imbalance in my brain chemicals.) If/when I collar a pet/sub, I will be quite open with my condition because, while I keep it well managed with medication and exercise (which helps increase the lacking chemicals in my brain, thus keeping me balanced) and self-awareness, there are times, especially of great stress, where I backslide. I wouldn't want to shock a sub or pet by going from controlled and controlling Domme to curled up ball of blubbering depression.... plus there's the other side effects I get when backsliding, like the horrible twins of insomnia and fatigue (always tired but can't sleep!).

So, yes, you can. Mental illnesses are still illnesses. They can be treated and you can live a relatively normal day to day life with them once you and those you are around daily are educated and aware of the condition. While some considerations may need to be made, the illness itself doesn't keep you from doing what you feel driven to do, you just may need extra help to stay centered, that's all.....

Gotta love brain chemistry!

(ETA: clarity! and smilies!)

< Message edited by LadybugBlue -- 7/10/2008 10:57:10 PM >

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 51

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/10/2008 11:12:15 PM

xtac4me

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As has already been said many times on this thread... Yes, someone can serve with bipolar. That is like asking if someone can serve if they are a diabetic! Really, what difference does it make?

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 52

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 2:47:55 AM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
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From: SW London (UK)
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The way I see it there's the person, there's the condition known as bi-polar (to me not knowing too much about it, it's a condition), and there's no doubt a relationship between the two. The only absolute I see is that the person is still a person, irrespective of how they are affected by being bi-polar.

I've never had bi-polar, in fact apart from clinical depression never had no mental illness or emotional disturbance. I'm a transgendered female, which in itself gives me some issues, but I can handle them. It doesn't affect who I am as a person, my ability to function, to be in a relationship, whatever. However to many people this particular aspect of my person takes over and for them becomes the most important thing about me, and it excludes me from a relationship. Why?

This is how many people think. I cannot answer the question why, you have to ask them, not me. But I know I'm not a special case here, just ask anyone else who can be seen by others to be 'defective', and ask them about the questions other people ask them about their ability to function in a relationship, or even being a submissive or dominant.

Take for example a multiple sclerosis sufferer. A few years ago I served a Domme who had MS. She also had epilepsy. That put most submissives off. But she was a jewel, a delight to serve, a real diamond. Sure, there were issues, some amount of drama, a few crises, but when I think back and remember, all I remember were the good times, those touching moments and not the emergencies.

Maybe it's me and the way I see people. Sure sometimes there's an additional risk. I lost a beautiful relationship with a Domme in Warsaw due to strokes. We agreed to live together, we did, it was harmony. But then the strokes started to happen. I decided to stay. I spent days sitting beside her bed in the hospital, holding her hand, being there for her, stroking her hair, I could sit for hours watching her sleep, oblivious to whatever was going on around me. In the end it was decided she give up the flat, her life, she quit BDSM and our relationship to go and live with her elderly mother who would take care of her, and I guess hearts shattered into tiny little pieces. But again most of what I can remember are her eyes and the way they lit up whenever we decided to play, her smile, her words, the pain, the joy, the intensity, everything which goes to make up a meaningful relationship.

I don't see why someone with the bi-polar condition cannot be in a successful, meaningful, happy relationship just like anyone else. Yes I know there will be special considerations, yes I know there will be a need for perhaps some form of additional support, but none of this I feel should ever negate or diminish who they are as a person.

And isn't that who you form a relationship with? The person, not the condition.

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(in reply to xtac4me)

Post #: 53

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 11:24:42 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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As long as the Dom knows is my answer.

I have hypoglycemia and need to eat every three hours - sometimes more often if I've been doing a lot of physical exertion. It effects emotions because basically the brain doesn't get enough oxygen and starts to starve. I am normally very even tempered but may suddenly become extremely angry and rude. I needed to let my Master know about the condition before we ever started playing so that He understood that if I suddenly said, "I need to eat", that it was no game nor something that He should deny. Yesterday I snapped at Him on the phone for the first time since we've been together, and then needed to explain that it was because I was overdue to eat.

Anything that can effect our moods that we have no control over, from bipolar to PMS to hypoglycemia or anything else, should be revealed up front. If someone can't handle it they should make it clear and then we know that they are not the proper partner to play with.

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RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 3:03:00 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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I don't think that anyone with an untreated illness is ready to be in a relationship. Note I said untreated.

With medication and therapeutic support, and a dominant who is willing to take the time to become educated, and who can provide necessary support, there is no reason you couldn't.

I will say that his ignorant comment is such that I don't think he's able to be supportive of anyone. He's likely to bail if the sub gets breast cancer because he couldn't cane them and would think his immediate gratification is more important than maintaining a loving relationship.

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Post #: 55

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 3:53:12 PM

sirslilpetmissy

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Joined: 7/10/2008
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i feel that if you are getting proper care for bipolar you can do anything you put your mind to and that being submissive can actually help you gain self control more if you are honest with your Master and he is caring enough to work with you. bipolar does not mean you are dumb. actually you may be smarter than most people just need help controlling yourself . it has ups and downs it s not your fault if you are doing what you need to. but if not controlled well there can be a lot of drama. but i feel when you meet someone you should be honest about your medical conditions. bi polar is a medical condition not just a "mind" illness. so don't give up and also use your issue to work for you. do not make it a disabilty but an abilty.
missy

(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 56

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 4:11:19 PM

ServingGirrl

Posts: 115
Joined: 10/10/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

i am a long time slave to a well respected Mistress here in Australia and, through Her training and example, have gained some measure of respect myself in the local scene.   i am also a long term sufferer of BiPolar disorder, being first diagnosed when i was 19.

When i first met Mistress i was 'going it alone' and refusing to take the medication offered (Lithium hydride) because of it's side effects.   Eventually i had an episode and everything came out into the open.   Mistress was wonderful and supportive, but only under firm guidelines - i sought immediate professional help, immediately went on medication and spoke with her at least once a day specifically about my mood and how it was fluctuating.   i did as she instructed and now, some years later, i am well controlled medically and much happier in all aspects of my life.

SirLilsPetmissy was quite right; i wasn't not taking meds because of lack of knowledge or intelligent and in fact am quite mentally agile and well educated.   Like many BP folk though, i lacked the perspective to assess my own condition from day to day and needed both medication and oversight of it.   Thanks to Mistress i now receive both.   She is the first to see the signs in me that i am beginning to struggle and will order me home to take extra medication and rest.   Because that "suggestion" comes from Her i follow it; anyone else and, moreso in the past, i'd probably argue or ignore it.

i'm living proof that you can be a successful BiPolar slave.   i'm also living proof that it can only happen when you are completely up front with your Dom/me about the condition, take your meds and follow the advice given by health professionals and those close to you.   This illness never goes away and cannot be beaten but it CAN be wrestled to a draw - i know; i do so every day of my life.

Blessings to all who are dealing with this dreadful and stigmatising condition ........ livvi

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(in reply to sirslilpetmissy)

Post #: 57

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 7:14:03 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

(Snipped)
I agree. for some people medication is a must (assuming it is voluntary). for others, they prefer to work with other methods.

I am curious. Are you bi-polar?

CD

no.

your point being?

is it going to be the old tried and true 'well if you don't have it you don't know what it's like' or 'if you had it maybe you'd understand?'

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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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Post #: 58

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 7:28:03 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~ Fast Reply ~

As for the brief hijack going on about bipolar not being a disease, no sites were referenced so I did some homework. The Biology Online Science Dictionary defines a disease as "A pathological condition in which the normal functioning of an organism is impaired or disrupted resulting in extreme pain, dysfunction, distress or death." It goes on to say "It may include a state of injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes...."

The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has a fact sheet on Mental Illness, which lists bipolar disorder in their list of "Serious mental illnesses".

For those interested, here is a fact sheet on bipolar disorder.

*sigh*

we're working with a very broad definition of disaese. many things can cause dysfunctions or distress. not all of them are diseases. diseases, be they foreign bodies or physiological aberrations, inhibit normal functioning. now, pray tell, what behaviors should be listed under the mind's normal functioning and what behaviors should be listed under the mind's abnormal functioning? is being ecstatic, irritable, depressed, impulsive, anxious, or hopeless normal or abnormal functions of the brain? are mood swings abnormal functions of the brain? (hint: the answer is no)

these are not diseases. they do not impair the body's normal functions.

they are merely behaviors that can bring unwanted aspects to some individuals' lives. however, many, many things can bring distress and dysfunction to interpersonal relationships from baggage with previous partners to mental "illnesses" to current financial situations and so on. these things *can* get in the way of being submissive or loving or dominate or whatever else...but they are not guaranteed to.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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Post #: 59

RE: can a sub/slave serve with bipolar disorder? - 7/11/2008 8:00:58 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
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Variation:

Your post is too condescending for me to have interest in replying to further. You have presented no sources or personal credentials for the conclusions you have dictated, other than personal opinion. You are now arguing the definitions by The Biology Online Science Dictionary and NAMI. Enjoy yourself.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 7/11/2008 8:01:55 PM >

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Good is the enemy of great.

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