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RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 7:20:31 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dmc68

just curious how many here make it a 24/7 part of their life.


I'll answer this question and avoid the sidebar arguement (For now...)

BDSM is sexual...there's no ifs ands or buts about it. We all find something arousing about at least one aspect of BDSM. A pussy gets wet at the thought of being bound and helpless...a cock gets hard at the thought of a stiletto heel being driven into their groin. Wether the arousal comes from the D/s side of the house...or the S&M side of the house...there is still a very sexual current running through it all. Now, I am not saying that its about sex....just saying it's sexual in nature.

I choose to live in a 24/7 relationship, but for us that live a 24/7 relationship...many will admit that it is not as 24/7 as we might like it to be. Life gets in the way...kids...work...finances...reality. But to better answer the question, I don't see living 24/7 as being more than sexual..or less than sexual. I see 24/7 as a structure in which to conduct my Evil deeds. 24/7 is simply saying (to me) that when the scene is over...I still own your ass.

Need more coffee..maybe I'll comment more on this later.

Hope this helped...

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to dmc68)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 7:44:01 AM   
ThornBlood


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

What was the question again?


*is hopeful that the question had to do with cheerleader outfits*

Sinergy


Ok.. NOW we're talking sex instead of BDSM.. lmao... Woo hoo!
*Brings it back to the topic with a schoolgirl outfit*
Heh.. kinda like 'em dressed muhself

John

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 8:51:42 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hhahaha
leave it to the Masters to always bring it back to the * sex part *

quote:

there's ethical and unethical. An unethical sadist
tends to be an abuser, maybe a psychopath.


an unethical vanilla tends to be an abuser and phychopath
as well and one need not be Sadist to be such.

All Sadist are phychopaths according to current definitions and
not acceptable in society be they Vanilla or Lifestyle. FYI.
Pain for pleasure is

quote:

I do play with sadists, though I hate pain. Of course, they're ethical sadists who won't harm me, even though they're hurting me.

Why would you play with a Sadist if you hate pain? I think you need
to read your own words written here. If you are NOT into pain and a Sadist
is playing with you They ARE being unethical. I would never scene with anyone but a masocist if it was to practice My Sadistic pleasures. FYI you need to really learn the differance in whats right and wrong here kiki.
I am extream and 24/7. I would not be desired by sumone whom
is only a sub or a part time scener not into pain for pleasure. My
likes would make most light players sick however it does not make
Me unethical as you put it but only One of the Lifestyle and in My rightful place.

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 4:30:41 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
If you are NOT into pain and a Sadist
is playing with you They ARE being unethical.


I'm a masochist, but there are types of pain that I don't enjoy on any level. That doesn't make those things out of bounds, or the person causing them unethical. To me, it's all part of the give and take. I won't stop a scene just because I'm not enjoying something or I find it unpleasant. Sometimes ya gotta give in order to get.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 4:34:55 PM   
Clay1


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/19/2004
Status: offline 		I tell ya, folks...I will have to experience real time activities until I can fully answer this question. But, right now, BDSM is sexual for me.

~Clayton~

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 8:15:14 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
an unethical vanilla tends to be an abuser and phychopath
as well and one need not be Sadist to be such.


A person who enjoys causing pain and harm to people and doesn't care how that person feels isn't necessarily vanilla or kinky. Could be either, could be both. It's still unethical to me.

quote:


All Sadist are phychopaths according to current definitions and
not acceptable in society be they Vanilla or Lifestyle. FYI.
Pain for pleasure is


You're saying sadists aren't socially acceptable in kink social circles? Unethical sadists, ie abusers, aren't welcome, true. But an ethical sadist who delights in torture and cruelty but knows you can't play with broken toys, and takes care of their partners wellbeing, is welcome.

quote:


Why would you play with a Sadist if you hate pain? I think you need
to read your own words written here. If you are NOT into pain and a Sadist
is playing with you They ARE being unethical. I would never scene with anyone but a masocist if it was to practice My Sadistic pleasures. FYI you need to really learn the differance in whats right and wrong here kiki.



I think you need to be more openminded. I don't like pain. I like to play. I like everything about pain play except the pain. I like bruises. I like the experience of playing, letting someone else be in control, I like seeing what I can take. I can enjoy the experience even when I'm calling them names and wishing it would stop. That isn't being unethical. It's fun. It's also feeding their sadistic urges, because they know I'm not enjoying it. They know that they're making me suffer. A masochist enjoys the pain, which feeds a different sort of energy for them. They are not being unethical by playing with me. I am not being forced into play. Even though they hurt me, they do not harm me.

Play is fun.

quote:


I am extream and 24/7. I would not be desired by sumone whom
is only a sub or a part time scener not into pain for pleasure. My
likes would make most light players sick however it does not make
Me unethical as you put it but only One of the Lifestyle and in My rightful place.


The play you mention isn't what I called unethical. I said someone who delights in the killing of animals would be someone I wouldn't want to be involved with, or socialise with.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 8:22:03 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm a masochist

yes this is true SherriA but the person
I was addressing was NOT
a masocist hence the differance.
Hence My words hold true. You
however are a masocist SherriA
and that is to be expected of you.
I was addressing submissives NOT
masocists whom are NOT into pain
that a Sadist has inflicted apon them
when they were NOT into the pain as
the Sadist being unethical in thier application
and clarifying the differances to kiki
whom had a fuzzy idea to Me of whats
right and wrong in application of a kink
and the ethical or unethical application of such.
quote:

When it comes to sadism, there's ethical and unethical. An unethical sadist tends to be an abuser, maybe a psychopath. An ethical sadist wants to hurt and torture their partner, but won't harm them, and have their good in mind. I do play with sadists, though I hate pain. Of course, they're ethical sadists who won't harm me, even though they're hurting me.
I see red flags in these comments from kiki. Sorry but
thats simply what I see. JMO

(in reply to Clay1)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 8:31:31 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
I was addressing submissives NOT
masocists whom are NOT into pain
that a Sadist has inflicted apon them
when they were NOT into the pain as
the Sadist being unethical in thier application


How is it unethical if I ask to play with them, knowing what they will do will hurt and that I'll wish for the pain to stop, but I want to have the experience? It would be unethical if they did that without my consent, not because I don't get off on pain.

quote:


and clarifying the differances to kiki
whom had a fuzzy idea to Me of whats
right and wrong in application of a kink
and the ethical or unethical application of such.


If you find it fuzzy, Dread, that's not my problem. I quite clearly laid it out, I'm sorry that you didn't understand it.

quote:

I see red flags in these comments from kiki. Sorry but
thats simply what I see. JMO


What red flags? That I know what I want and like and want to do? That I have an opinion and don't agree with you? I play with people because I enjoy play. I sometimes enjoy knowing I'm satisfying their sadistic urges by hating what they're doing. With all the play I've done, it's been with people who know me, and know what I can and can't do. When I play, I play with people I trust, who trust me.

We may be heading into the "is a masochist the best match for a sadist" debate, but it is not a red flag for me to say I don't like pain but I enjoy playing with sadists.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 8:58:17 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		your statements above in the
beginning were not spacific but
a generalization kiki and now
you are making them
spacific and turning them from a
generalization to close freinds.

quote:

What is a Sadist: someone who obtains pleasure from inflicting pain. a person whose inflicting pain behavior deviates from what is acceptable in society.


This definition does not specify people only kiki and Sadists do not simply play in a BDSM setting singley. however those whom are not Sadists but practice Sadistic scenes are and your definitions does not discribe safe play in your words. Sorry but I would not desire to see a
newbie read your words and think that it is ok to scene with a Sadist
they come in contact with in a Scene setting not being a masocist and your beginning words say such to Me all tho as I said your last words define better just what you do and that it is with freinds and those whom you trust wholly that happen to scene with you. Big differance. Sadists inflict pain on many more things then just other people. And depending on how They inflict such is what makes the differance in ethical and unethical. Many Sadists never graduate to other human beings to inflict their pain on or worse and gain their satisfactions of giving pain from other living things. These are the facts I know from being a Sadist.
And again I will state, as a Sadist I would not ethically scene in a sadistic
manner with anyone whom was not masocistic. JMO

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 9:31:40 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
I was addressing submissives NOT
masocists whom are NOT into pain
that a Sadist has inflicted apon them
when they were NOT into the pain as
the Sadist being unethical in thier application


Then colour me unethical. I don't like to hurt people who are enjoying it. I like to hurt people who are HATING it, and letting me do it anyway.

It works for me, and the people I play with. I coerce no one, nor do I force anyone. How is that unethical?

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 9:37:13 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Alrighty then...about those cheerleader outfits...hmmm...Hey, they look good on boys too!

Dread said that BDSM is 24/7, and I agree. D/s is my lifestyle choice, and it is about demonstration, sure, but it is also about attitude. I don't just "act" dominant. I am dominant. I don't walk up to folks and say "I'm dominant, do what I say!", but I do demonstrate myself in a manner that speaks to who I am, reflects my knowledge, and my "attitude". This therefore invites a respectful response. Most of the time, anyway.

For a long time I made efforts to keep my lifestyle seperate from my "vanilla" life. For the same reasons others do. My career, my children, my family, etc. About six months ago I decided not to do that anymore, and integrated the two. What happened was that life became a whole lot easier, and a whole new communication opened up between my (now) grown sons and I, my friends and I, and my daughter and I.

In my opinion, and I've said this before, there ain't no "vanilla", lol. They're just in denial. Is BDSM more than sexual to me? That's a silly question, but I'll answer it anyway. Yes, much, much more.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 9:50:32 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		again SherriA
I am not discussing
Sadists and Masocists
I am discussing those
whom are not S/M
players. And it was
not Me whom called
Us unethical but kiki.

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/4/2004 10:01:42 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		hypothisis:
Im a Dr. and a 18 year old comes to Me with
a desire to have her tubes tied and burned
so that she cannot have children. She has given
her permission for Me to do this. Do I do it?
or is it concidered unethical because at 18 this
gurl does not know what she is requesting and
the possible long term effects will come back to
haunt her long after the action has been taken
even tho she knows whats involved and what
long term effects such a act will end with. JMO
She is told to return when she is 21 if she is
serious about such an action then it will then
ethically be done.
To Me this situation much defines the differance
in ethical and unethical
just because sumone gives their permission to do
sumthing does not make it right. It is up to the
person of Authority to take such actions or nonaction.
concensuality is not the only aspect one looks at when
scening and to say it is, is showing nievity.
As anyone can see BDSM is way much more
to Me then sexual.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 7:22:54 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
your statements above in the
beginning were not spacific but
a generalization kiki and now
you are making them
spacific and turning them from a
generalization to close freinds.


It was a general statement in the beginning, yes. That doesn't make the statement invalid.

I used a more personal response later, in an effort to help you understand another way of looking at things.

quote:


This definition does not specify people only kiki and Sadists do not simply play in a BDSM setting singley. however those whom are not Sadists but practice Sadistic scenes are and your definitions does not discribe safe play in your words.


Where was I said play wouldn't be safe? I said I didn't like pain, and that I consented to it. That's not unethical behaviour. Some may think it strange, but it's very ethical.

And if you'ren to a sadist, why are you performing sadistic scenes? Wouldn't that be an unpleasant experience?

quote:


Sorry but I would not desire to see a
newbie read your words and think that it is ok to scene with a Sadist


Oh ok. Take note, all newbies, Dread says you can't play with sadists. Uh huh. Sure. If you read what I said carefully, I was describing what I do and how I feel about it. I also stated that the people I play with are mindful of my needs and limits - they won't harm me.

quote:


they come in contact with in a Scene setting not being a masocist and your beginning words say such to Me all tho as I said your last words define better just what you do and that it is with freinds and those whom you trust wholly that happen to scene with you. Big differance.


I'm sorry, I have absolutely no clue what you mean here.

quote:


Sadists inflict pain on many more things then just other people. And depending on how They inflict such is what makes the differance in ethical and unethical.


In my view, an ethical sadist will only inflict pain upon someone (a person) who consents to it. If someone who ID's as a sadist inflicts pain upon someone or something that doesn't consent (ie child or animal) then they are most definitely not an ethical sadist, and should seek medical care.

quote:


Many Sadists never graduate to other human beings to inflict their pain on or worse and gain their satisfactions of giving pain from other living things. These are the facts I know from being a Sadist.


What you're explaining is someone who has not learnt to control themselves, or have understanding of acceptable behaviour. Delighting in cruelty to animals is not a good trait to have. It's not something to boast about.

quote:


And again I will state, as a Sadist I would not ethically scene in a sadistic
manner with anyone whom was not masocistic. JMO


Then, IMO, you're not going to be feeding your sadistic urges, because they're enjoying it.

I'm wondering if you know what I mean by ethical. And sadistic.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 7:23:32 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

hypothisis:
Im a Dr. and a 18 year old comes to Me with
a desire to have her tubes tied and burned
so that she cannot have children. She has given
her permission for Me to do this. Do I do it?
or is it concidered unethical because at 18 this
gurl does not know what she is requesting and
the possible long term effects will come back to
haunt her long after the action has been taken
even tho she knows whats involved and what
long term effects such a act will end with.


Although I understand the concept that you are getting at, Dread.. I can't fully agree with it. At 18 years old, you can join the military and vote. If you are able to die for your country or elect people into government office, shouldn't you be able to make a decision about your own body?

I agree that just because someone gives you permission to do something, doesn't make it right. If a submissive came to me and asked me to kill her, for example... I would have some issues with that. Problem is, where do you draw the line? Dread, you mention virtually daily...that your kink may not be my kink...but it doesnt make my kink "wrong". I agree with this concept too. But where is the line drawn between practicing good ethics and acting upon our deviant urges?

Does consentuality make everything ok? Not really...
Does the local law determine what is ethical for all of us? Hell no.

All I can do is try and use my best judgement.

Any other thoughts?

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 7:23:40 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

again SherriA
I am not discussing
Sadists and Masocists
I am discussing those
whom are not S/M
players. And it was
not Me whom called
Us unethical but kiki.


I didn't say sadists and masochists playing together was unethical. I suggest you reread the posts.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 7:27:48 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
To Me this situation much defines the differance
in ethical and unethical


To me, that analogy isn't a suitable comparison. It's a bit too far fetched and not related to the situation. One more appropriate might be you asking a collared submissive to play with you when you know their dominant doesn't like them doing that.


just because sumone gives their permission to do
sumthing does not make it right.


Doesn't make it wrong, either.

quote:


It is up to the
person of Authority to take such actions or nonaction.


If we're talking about playing casually, then neither is the party of "authority", it's two (or more) people playing and having fun, negotiating what it is they want to do.

quote:


concensuality is not the only aspect one looks at when
scening and to say it is, is showing nievity.
quote:



I don't think anyone said it was, but it's up there as among the most important.

quote:


As anyone can see BDSM is way much more
to Me then sexual.
[/quote

Uh, ok. We were discussing what's ethical, but have it your way.]

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 8:30:46 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

hypothisis:
Im a Dr. and a 18 year old comes to Me with
a desire to have her tubes tied and burned
so that she cannot have children. She has given
her permission for Me to do this. Do I do it?
or is it concidered unethical because at 18 this
gurl does not know what she is requesting and
the possible long term effects will come back to
haunt her long after the action has been taken
even tho she knows whats involved and what
long term effects such a act will end with. JMO
She is told to return when she is 21 if she is
serious about such an action then it will then
ethically be done.
To Me this situation much defines the differance
in ethical and unethical
just because sumone gives their permission to do
sumthing does not make it right. It is up to the
person of Authority to take such actions or nonaction.
concensuality is not the only aspect one looks at when
scening and to say it is, is showing nievity.
As anyone can see BDSM is way much more
to Me then sexual.


I do understand the concept You are conveying ... however... any doctors ethics if presented with such a person should be to suggest that the person recieve counciling first- before, during and after... the proceedure... whether they are 18 or 30...or any age...(i know both an 18 and a 30 year old that did the same things is why I chose those ages...) To say *go away and come back in a few years* would be irresponsible and unethical of the Dr.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 9:45:11 AM   
theroebabe


Posts: 3155
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThornBlood

Ok.. NOW we're talking sex instead of BDSM.. lmao... Woo hoo!
*Brings it back to the topic with a schoolgirl outfit*
Heh.. kinda like 'em dressed muhself

John



Well i know when i had met someone who was into the daddy school girl role play i went all out and had a sub friend of mine come with me to the actual catholic school unifrom store here out on long island. She was not thrilled but we had a laugh with all the parents and school kids looking at us old farts and me trying on a school uniform, complete with white blouse, skirt, vest and matching hair things. What an expensive trip!

But hey i got it now! Lets play!!!!!!

Roe

_____________________________

Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: IS BDSM more than sexual to you? - 8/5/2004 5:02:29 PM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:


If you find it fuzzy, Dread, that's not my problem. I quite clearly laid it out, I'm sorry that you didn't understand it.


I get it, if that helps. When you first said it, it did sound a little fuzzy. With further explanation, I find myself thinking you must be a fun playmate.

I know a boxer who loves boxing but can't stand getting punched in the face. Does that mean he in the wrong game? Not necessarily. Does that mean the ones punching him are unethical? Of course not.

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 60
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