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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:26:27 AM

slvemike4u

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Jesse Jackson was right about Obama "talking down" to black people.
But, Obama is also "talking down" to everyone.
He's *telling* us what *HE* wants to do not *ASKING US* what WE want him to do!
The People shouldn't be afraid of the govt, the govt. should be afraid of The People!

Jackson was right? How so ? how was Obama talking down to black men when he challenged them to be fathers to their children instead of " baby-daddies",coincidently this is a message Bill Cosby,Dick Gregory and others have been trumpeting for years,,,

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 21

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:46:28 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

The only part of his homestate that will vote for him are Cook County... and a small area near East St. Louis. The rest of the state is what I would consider fly-over that will not be voting for him. Just take a look at the county by county or precinct by precinct results.

Do you want to bet on this? You might want to check the actual primary results first. Obama is strong downstate and is likely to take all of the collar counties as well. He won't beat McCain by as much as he beat Keyes but it will be something like 65% in Illinois.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 22

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:48:41 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
DomKen, "flyover land" is a Hollywood expression meaning anywhere between the two coasts.

Actually it is an expression common on both coasts and is not exclusive to any one town. Now get a map and find Chicago and explain as previously asked what would make you think he thinks of the nation like that.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 23

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:48:44 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

Jackson was right? How so ? how was Obama talking down to black men when he challenged them to be fathers to their children instead of " baby-daddies",coincidently this is a message Bill Cosby,Dick Gregory and others have been trumpeting for years

In case we hadn't noticed, there is a strong sentiment among certain folks that anything minorities do to become more responsible, successful, or complete, is 'baaaaaahhhaaaad'.

You know, like running a strong campaign for President, or talking crazy talk about families, and history, and morals, and such.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/16/2008 11:51:51 AM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 24

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:50:33 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Jesse Jackson was right about Obama "talking down" to black people.
But, Obama is also "talking down" to everyone.
He's *telling* us what *HE* wants to do not *ASKING US* what WE want him to do!
The People shouldn't be afraid of the govt, the govt. should be afraid of The People!

Jackson was right? How so ? how was Obama talking down to black men when he challenged them to be fathers to their children instead of " baby-daddies",coincidently this is a message Bill Cosby,Dick Gregory and others have been trumpeting for years,,,

Slvemike, no, not like that.
He talks to people like *HE* knows better than "they" do.
He tries to claim not to be an "Elite" but he was the Editor of the "Harvard Law Review", you don't get much more "eliteist" than that!
I mean the guy is an "Eliteist" even amoung "Legal Scholors" for God's sake!
*HELLO!!!!!!!!!*
Can you say "Single Malt Scotch?"
Even "Joe Lunchbucket" isn't going to buy into that.
Hopefully when the Democrats lose again in November maybe they'll get all this "Leftist" B.S. out of their systems and get back to basics and again become the "Party of the Workingman."
A guy who works stringing wire for the phone or power companies and Rob Reiner really don't have much in common do they?
I think that the Democrat Party was hijacked by elites and leftists.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 25

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:39:38 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

If you disagree, at least add something constructive to the discussion. Which part do you disagree with? That the education system is filled with leftists (liberals) ? That many Dems use the class warfare mentality to shore up support? That Dems get alot of their support from those that hover around the poverty line?

Just curious,
Thadius

Not quite sure where to start. Does being liberal mean being leftist? How liberal do I have to be before I become a leftist? Are there rules I should read? If I cross the line will I get blacklisted?

Considering that the Dems use the "class warfare mentality" I'm curious if you think that Republicans don't?

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 26

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:45:04 PM

Thadius

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Read my original post, namely the first sentence. Both parties are corrupt, but as this topic was asking about the Dem party, I commented on them. I often consider myself to be a very conservative liberal, make of it what you wish.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 27

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:46:47 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dadawaits4u

Should we look at another candidate? in question,, Bob Barr?

Saw him today on CNN. Unfortunately the main focus of the interview was why he is bothering to run with so little support. It's time we wake up and give support to third party candidates instead of the usual Republican/Democrat nonsense.

(in reply to dadawaits4u)

Post #: 28

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:49:26 PM

philosophy

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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Both parties are corrupt, but as this topic was asking about the Dem party, I commented on them.

...totally fair. i'm curious though. i've read the thread and still don't know exactly what the Democratic way was in the first place? There's been a little talk about being the party of the 'working class', but as that would mean the Republicans are not the party of the working class by definition.......well, such a definition has a number of strategic cultural problems.
So what, in the 21st century distinguishes the Democrats from the Republicans? How do their dreams differ?

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 29

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:51:28 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Read my original post, namely the first sentence. Both parties are corrupt, but as this topic was asking about the Dem party, I commented on them. I often consider myself to be a very conservative liberal, make of it what you wish.

Fair enough, but your comments on the Democrats plan to keep people in poverty to form a permanent voting base were a little much.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 30

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 12:52:01 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Popeye regarding Your elitist post,a similar argument would be that the Republicans have been hijacked by the religous right and the neo-cons....as far as Obama "knowing better"than "joe lunchbucket"or I ...I was under the impression that was the point...you know the best and the brightest and all that stuff...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 31

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 1:31:06 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Popeye regarding Your elitist post,a similar argument would be that the Republicans have been hijacked by the religous right and the neo-cons....as far as Obama "knowing better"than "joe lunchbucket"or I ...I was under the impression that was the point...you know the best and the brightest and all that stuff...

Slvemike, lol, if you look back at the last 6 or 7 presidents none of them have been in the "best or the brightest" class.
Look at the fucking BOOB who's in there now!
A low i.q. "YALE" graduate!
I want a good "manager" in the White House not an academic or eliteist or anyone with a "world" or "global" "view" or "insiders" like U.S. Senators!
And a U.S. Senator *is* an "insider." You don't get anymore "inside" than that!
Obama is struggling to portray himself as *anything* other than what he actually is, an eliteist, academic, leftist, insider with "Hollywood" connections who's taking money from lobbyists after he said he, "wouldn't take money from lobbyists."
That's why the Dems are going to lose in Nov.
If a truckdriver were to run for President he or she would get my vote.
I just don't want to play this "game" anymore of only having two "choices" for President.
Both the Dems and Repubs are taking $money from "Lobbyists" which means they're Dirty!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 32

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 1:47:07 PM

bipolarber

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Joined: 9/25/2004
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All I know is, everytime shit gets thorwn at Obama, he's taken it, and held himself well above the fray. Even this last volley with the New Yorker cover... "Hey, that's the First Ammendment!" he said, "Getting upset about a cartoon is just losing sight of the objectives... we have more important stuff to talk about."

Compare and contrast that to McCain's reaction to Stephen Colbert's "green screen challenge" where viewers were asked to come up with satirical uses for some video culled from the night Obama sewed up the primaries. McCain first looked into suing the Comedy Channel, and having those who participated in the challenge placed under surveilance. (This is the kind of America you want to live in?) When he realized that doing so would probably brand him as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" candidate again... he dropped it.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 33

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 2:00:33 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

Finally found the 'Change' advertised in the banner.

Taken directly from the commitment speech to Raza:

quote:

So I want you to remember one thing, because you'll be hearing from a lot of candidates today. When I talk about hope; when I talk about change; when I talk about holding America up to its ideals of opportunity and equality, this isn't just the rhetoric of a campaign for me, it's been the cause of my life - a cause I will work for and fight for every day as your President.

I will be a President who remembers that our separate struggles are really one. I will never walk away from the tough battles or the difficult work of bringing people together. And I will never walk away from the 12 million undocumented immigrants who live, work, and contribute to our country every single day.

Source: http://www.barackobama.com/2007/07/22/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_21.php

The Senator plans on CHANGE-ing criminals into citizens, insuring that the pay scale for laborers across the board will remain low. I think he could be after my vote. I don't want the cost of my pool service, lawn & garden, minor home improvement going up! Legalizing these criminals, because were he consistent he would need to call call drug dealers 'undocumented pharmacists', insures another generation or two of cheap labor. It will really be great after he's elected in November and an extra 5 or 6 million want to get included into the amnesty program. I think I'll hold off replacing my deck.

Yup, Senator Obama is a man of the people. Not US people obviously since he believes in not doing anything until consulting with Europe and the rest of the world; wanting us to appreciate that our air conditioned, comfortably heated homes and common ownership of personal transportation causes the rest of the world to be envious and resentful. But I understand that he really is running for president of the world. Apparently he sees the best and fastest way to achieve world equality is to lower the US standard versus what this country has been used to. I think if we elect him it will be an opportunity to see how that works out.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 34

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 2:04:04 PM

MistressNew

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline

Heeheehee!

The half-black son of a single mother is the elitest, while Cindy McCain says things like "In Arizona, the only way to get around is by small private plane." McCain is worth 45 million dollars and was literally eating cake with Bush during Katrina, but Obama is the elitest? Really?

This is the sort of argument I should stay out of, because there is clearly no room for logic or reason here.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 35

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 2:09:56 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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The political situation has changed because American society as a whole has changed. What would you do to improve the situation? Any reason you do not want to run for a local office, say city or county council?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 36

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 2:13:17 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

All I know is, everytime shit gets thorwn at Obama, he's taken it, and held himself well above the fray. Even this last volley with the New Yorker cover... "Hey, that's the First Ammendment!" he said, "Getting upset about a cartoon is just losing sight of the objectives... we have more important stuff to talk about."

Compare and contrast that to McCain's reaction to Stephen Colbert's "green screen challenge" where viewers were asked to come up with satirical uses for some video culled from the night Obama sewed up the primaries. McCain first looked into suing the Comedy Channel, and having those who participated in the challenge placed under surveilance. (This is the kind of America you want to live in?) When he realized that doing so would probably brand him as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" candidate again... he dropped it.

I have to call BS on the last one... I can't even find a blog entry that claims McCain thought about suing Comedy Central, hell he has made repeat appearances on both the Colbert Report and The Daily show.

I know isn't it great how Obama deflects things....

quote:

CHICAGO - Democrat Barack Obama said Tuesday that the New Yorker magazine's satirical cover depicting him and his wife as flag-burning, fist-bumping radicals doesn't bother him but that it was an insult to Muslim Americans.

I am still trying to wrap my head around it... is he saying it was an insult to Muslim Americans because he and his wife were portrayed to be Muslim? Or that he has an image in his head that flag burning, fist-bumping radicals are Muslim? Can we then conclude that any depiction of McCain in a wheelchair might be an insult to the elderly or physically handicapped?

Like water off the back of a duck...

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 37

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 2:59:27 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
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It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago on MSNBC's "Countdown."

But of course, if you can't find it, then it must not exist...

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 38

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 3:32:52 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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If you cannot find it, then your source has no facts to back up their claim. So if Sean Hannity says something, it would mean it was fact? Media state opinions and innuendo all the time, but it does not make it fact.

Both parties have lost their way, because the American Sheeple are more concerned about being cheerleaders for the winning team, than what that team is actually doing. Hell just look at the cheerleaders on these political topics.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 39

RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:07:41 PM

Toren1234

Posts: 13
Joined: 3/18/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline

I totally love how everybody has jumped on Barack 'n Rolls bandwagon on how he's going to "save" America. How is he going to do that? By increasing the the taxes on the actual producers of our society? By NOT drilling for oil on our own soil? By passing out more handouts and subsidizing more people to ride the gravy train off the middle classes backs?

(to the actual topic of the post) Of course the Democratic party isn't what it used to be. The democratic party today is a fucking joke. JFK would have never stood for any of this shit that's going on today. JFK knew that the answer to an economy that thrives is a smaller tax base and a limited, smaller government. All today's democrats want is for you to be more poor, more reliant on them, more worried, less self sufficient, less free spirited, etc. so you'll keep voting them back into office so they can continue to try and "save you" all the while they can pull down $100K+ salaries and get free gas for their cars and free plane rides from OUR money. Remember, that's how they get paid, from that 33% that comes out of your paycheck every week.

And, as for NAFTA, being a Puchrasing Manager for a small manufacturing company in the 'burbs of Detroit, THE ONLY THING KEEPING OUR COMPANY ALIVE IS FOREIGN ORDERS. Thank god the US Dollar is fucking useless (another whole topic) so even Mexican companies outsource work to us. We just landed a 1.2 Million dolla job today from Mexico. About 85% of our current work is from either Canada or Mexico, and the prospects of doing work for German and other European companies keeps getting better. Its not NAFTA's fault, its the UNIONS fault. I hate to break it to everybody so bluntly, but if you really think that an assembly line worker, or a fork lift driver or a janitor job is actually worth $25 dollars an hour (or $40 w/ time and a half) I hate to be so brutally honest, but your a moron. That is the problem with our economy. It's a WAGE BUBBLE which led to inflated and over-valued prices on everything from cars to houses.

Shit, I could go on and on here.....

I'd say vote for Barr, but that's another whole let down. A career politician in libertarian clothing. Look at his track record.....

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 40

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