RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way?

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/19/2008 9:14:11 AM

RealityLicks

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First off, dating a practice as occurring "once upon a time" leaves you open to interpretation. I chose to start with the Domesday Book (1086) because that is the only early survey of the entire country conducted in Britain.

Yet I see your links have no reference to "the best grapes" coming from Northern England. Strange. Look a little further and you'll find mention of Roman soldiers in frontier provinces being sent decent Roman wine to forestall mutinies, as having to drink the sour local variety so adversely affected their morale. I don't doubt that viticulture existed right across this continent but simply point out that the quality varied so widely, that even with the usual contemporary practice of flavouring the finished product (with honey, water, spices etc) the local stuff was never much kop. Probably chaptalisation would have been necessary with each harvest but its difficult to tell because records of this type are less reliable the further back you go - even if you are prepared to accept some sketchy myths about winemaking as conclusive proof that it was significantly warmer, rather than more scientific methods.

There are many problems with labelling your opponents as naive believers in a new religion - chief among them is that the burden of evidence supports them and very little supports you. If you had evidence, you would post that instead of aspersions about irrational faith or the Chinese pollution problems. Contrary to your line about there being no theory based on past observation, what would you call the greenhouse gas theory? You've allowed your political beliefs to cloud your scientific credulity and basic logic; you hardly disguise that your arguments arise not from a healthy scepticism but from that agenda.

For the record, I believe there is every possibility that a new and better explanation for global warming can be brought forward, although it would have to be scientifically, conclusively stronger than the one we have. Now I haven't heard it yet and from what I read, neither have you.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/19/2008 2:00:35 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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Reality, I think you're right there.
People who are trying to convince others of their cause do themselves and their cause little good by calling sceptics "Non-Believers."
To get back (a little bit) on track Democrats seem to need very little convincing when it comes to "global warming."
But, they are just naturally trusting souls who do what the Democratic leadership tells them to do. And they aren't making any headway with voters by trying to politicise the issue or get the "U.N." involved in it.
If I wanted to get people to espouse my cause the *last thing* I'd do is to mention the "U.N."
Anytime I hear "U.N." I turn off.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/19/2008 3:03:07 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

The claim about vineyards in Northern England is also wrong,

RL,
You provide a perfect example of what's wrong with the Democratic party and their constituency's fervent believe, religious or not.

That was your quote. It is inaccurate - end of story. Instead of having the confidence and ability to acknowledge it, you move away from the point.

Similar to the money spent on the war on poverty.
Similar to the money spent on education.
Similar to the bigotry perpetuated with AA/eeo programs.
Similar to any social engineering, or wealth redistribution program.

None of them have succeeded in doing anything else but establish more government bureaucracy whose sole goal is self perpetuation. As a consequence they've created a generation of entitlement seeking whiners whose envy of those willing to work and succeed disgusts me.

I'll provide a similar list of Republican refusals to be wrong, even though it is a thread high-jack; ranging from trying to establish a Pax Americanus, to using the military to protect corporate interests beyond the interests of the citizens they allege to represent.

It's not party specific. It is a reason I'm don't associate with any party or any Conservative/Liberal agenda. If you define conservative as the belief in consequence for action - I'm conservative. If you define liberal as the belief that anyone should be allowed the freedom and liberty to do anything they want to their body and their possessions - I'm liberal. Neither of those positions are associated with my particular feeling, or action. They exist pragmatically across the board. I also accept and seek out information that would prove me wrong and get the same satisfaction as I do when I find information that confirms I'm right.

The current miserable excuse for the social, political situation we find ourselves will never change until something as basic as the acceptance of being wrong becomes as common as your example of rationalizing why such an incorrect position is somehow correct.

(in reply to popeye1250)

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Post #: 103